It was bound to happen, given that airlines are now required to double their compensation for passenger who are involuntarily denied boarding. If you can’t change the rule, just change the definition of “denied boarding.”
That’s exactly what Mohit Singla alleges American Airlines did when he tried to board a flight from Chicago to Dallas recently. Although he had a valid boarding pass, the airline stopped him from getting on the flight. “My seat was given to people on a waiting list,” he says. He paid $800 to fly to Dallas on Southwest, and wants American to pay for the new ticket.
Here’s how American responded to him:
I’m terribly sorry we couldn’t accommodate you aboard flight 2303 on March 7. Due to the weather, the flight was overbooked and we were forced to remove some passengers from the flight and reaccommodate them. While there were very good reasons for doing so, they are of little solace when you are the one who’s plans are disrupted. Again, I apologize.
I’ve authorized personnel in our Passenger Refunds department to issue the applicable refund. Once the adjustment is processed by the accounting specialists in that department, a credit will be issued directly to your credit card account. Please look for that transaction on your statement (this could take up to two billing cycles).
While I must decline your request to reimburse you for the Southwest Airlines ticket, we are not unmindful of the inconvenience to you. As a gesture of goodwill and apology, we’ve made arrangements for [a $100] eVoucher for you to use toward the purchase of a ticket to travel with us. I hope you will accept our gesture in the spirit of compromise. The next time you travel with us, we’ll do our best to make sure your trip is a good one.
Sincerely,
Fredia Luckey
Customer Relations
American Airlines
I was surprised by this response, and so was Singla. So they removed him from the flight — that’s an involuntary denied boarding situation — but blamed it on the weather? In other words, American has created a new class of denied boarding (a “weather denied boarding”?) to which to normal denied-boarding rules as outlined in its contract of carriage don’t apply?
Here’s Singla’s response:
Thank you for your reply. I must say that you email and $100 coupon just did not make me happy. Rather, it made me think that you did not understand my reason for writing to you.
I had checked in online and had valid boarding passes for my entire trip in my hand. I was denied boarding despite that, when I was in line to get in the plane. That flight took off from Chicago to Dallas on time. So I WAS NO ALLOWED TO BOARD! That resulted in about $800 expense and all the problems for me to get to my destination in addition to stress.
Normally, when a passenger is on the stand by list, he/she can be denied boarding but not a passenger with confirmed boarding pass. If a passenger decided to voluntarily give up his/her seat, he is reasonably compensated by the airline and booked ticket on next available flight to destination.
In this case, none were done and you are giving me $100 to shut up. I feel insulted at this insensitivity. I urge AA to review this matter and reasonably compensate me. I am not asking like medical malpractice attorneys for non economic damages, extreme mental agony, and punitive damages etc, I am just asking for reasonable economic compensation for my losses.
If this matter is not resolved per the FAA guidelines and laws I may be forced to report this to the higher law regulation authorities. I hope you or your higher authorities will review this matter and resolve it amicably.
Thank you,
Mohit Singla, MD
Allow me to interrupt this exchange. My reading of American’s conditions of carriage leads me to conclude Singla is entitled to the following:
[P]ayment equal to the sum of the face value of your flight coupon(s) to your point of destination or first stopover, subject to a maximum of $200. However, if American cannot arrange “alternate transportation” (as defined below) for you, the compensation will be doubled subject to a maximum of $400.
But will American reconsider? Here’s the letter back to Singla.
Dear Dr. Singla:
A careful review has been accomplished of the entire file and reports which have been obtained concerning your ticket to travel with us on March 7. We wish things had worked out differently and can understand your perseverance in this matter.
Denied Boarding Compensation is a penalty that airlines must pay to customers who hold confirmed reservations and have checked in for a flight but are not accommodated. Unfortunately, we were required to involuntarily remove you from the flight after you had checked in. In lieu of denied boarding compensation, we can and have processed a full refund of your ticket.
While we regret your continued dissatisfaction with our offer to gesture of apology for the inconvenience, we believe it is reasonable and appropriate. Dr. Singla, I’m not eager to disappoint you again but we don’t agree that additional compensation is warranted.
Although we understand that you don’t agree with our decision, it is based on sound business practices, as well as our past experience. I am sorry to disappoint you further.
Sincerely,
Fredia Luckey
Customer Relations
American Airlines
That’s complete nonsense. There is no difference between involuntary denied boarding and “we were required to involuntarily remove you.”
Singla is taking American to small claims court, which I think is the right next step. He’s also contacting the Transportation Department to file a formal complaint.
But beyond that, I’m worried that the airlines have simply tightened their definition of “involuntary denied boarding” now that they have to pay more compensation to passengers.
That would be disturbing, but not surprising.
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Dear Chris and other bloggers,
Thank you Chris for the blog and your comments on my situation.
I am still waiting to hear from AA as I sent them email that I will take them to court if the deny me the compensation. I am supposed to inform them of my intention to take them to court as required my petty claims courts.
Hopefully AA will read this and save the hassle of judicial need (my time is also precious). It will be great if Chris can bring it to the notice of AA.
Thank you,
MS
This is completely in line with the current attitude of airlines that as soon as you have paid your ticket (in advance), you are a liability rather than a customer. They already have your money, so they have no incentive anymore to actually please you, especially since in bean-counter-fantasy world, customers purely decide on who to fly based on price, and no on loyalty and previous experience.
Quite frankly, I think it’s time that customers start refusing to pay ahead in full, so that airlines actually have a financial incentive left to be nice to their customers. I mean, where else to you pay in full months before you actually get the product?
@ MS: Hear hear for taking them to court. I hope they don’t show up, and that th judge it ticked off by that. If I were you, I’d throw in a nice bill for the court costs as well. Also, please keep us informed of your progress.
Looks like AA is taking the same position as many insurance companies — deny that you should get compensated even though they have absolutely no legal standing, because most people won’t fight it.
If you are passionate about the issue, I suggest alerting local media (i.e., the consumer desk) and even your local congressperson & the congressperson(s) who sponsored the most recent bill. AA will likely need to be pressured on a grand scale b/c most people will not fight being screwed by the airline.
~ Elizabeth
So, is there anything we can do as passengers to try to avoid this situation, other than check in early (including checking in at home) and get on the plane ASAP?
I’m flying next week and do NOT want to deal with this on top of all the other fun at the airport these days….
So what AA is saying here is that involuntary denied boarding does not apply because they involuntarily denied his boarding. Well certainly I will think twice before booking on American in the future, though I know any airline could easily have been the culprit.
“Denied Boarding Compensation is a penalty that airlines must pay to customers who hold confirmed reservations and have checked in for a flight but are not accommodated. Unfortunately, we were required to involuntarily remove you from the flight after you had checked in.”
This is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard. I think I will try analogous things in my life:
“Yes honey, I understand that I said I would do the dishes and that if I didn’t, I would take you to your favorite restaurant. However, in this case I did the dishes and then dirtied them all again, so this doesn’t apply.”
When the Exe. Plat or AAirpass member shows up without a reservation and wants on the flight, they need to be accommodated.
AA then simply bumps someone [ was the good Doctor an AAdvantage member? It would be interesting to see if he was] and gives them the bad news. So far, AA has admitted a bump – seems like to me they lose. And, its $400 fee plus the value of the ticket. Court costs are only $50-100.
As for the bumping rules -what kind of plane was it? If it was an RJ with less than 60 seats – then the bumping compensation rules do not apply. Do not forget that here. While the current AA schedule has MD80’s on all flights, who knows what type of aircraft was scheduled that day. . .
$800 on WN from MDW-DAL? Huh? Their FULL FARE business select fare for midweek departures is $251, or about $600 roundtrip with the taxes, fees, fines, fuel and feathers. With United right there at O’Hare, why would the good Dr. drive all the way to Midway then? I need to see the proof to believe that – the LAST minute, as in TODAY fare on WN is $251 on that route.
AA would have to honor your return ticket, assuming there was one.
The point here is that AA seems to be splitting hairs — admitting to an IDB but then somehow saying it wasn’t a denied boarding in the contractual sense. I find that troubling. And unfortunately, there’s no way to prevent this from happening.
The only thing I can think of here is that the customer was not on-board 10 (or is it 15?) minutes prior to departure, in which case your boarding pass can be revoked, as the airline thinks you are then a no-show. This is a sensible policy, but I honestly don’t know if that was the case here. If it is the case, I would think that American would have mentioned that.
If this is not the case, then American most certainly should be showing up in a courtroom to explain themselves.
SirWired
One last thought, AA’s contract of carriage REQUIRES that you be on board at a variable time prior to departure at the whim of the agent essentially. Applicable provisions of the contract of carriage provide:
“DOMESTIC TRAVEL
“In addition to checking in 30 minutes before departure, you must be present at the departure gate and ready to board at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure time to retain your reservation and a seat.”
You need to be on board 15 min prior to scheduled departure time. Was our pax here checked-in but sitting in the gate area until the last minute? BAD. They can cancel you if not either on board or in the line 15 min before departure on flights where they board timely.
Another VERY interesting part of the AA contract of carriage is:
RESPONSIBILITY FOR SCHEDULES AND OPERATIONS
American will endeavor to carry you and your baggage with reasonable dispatch, but times shown in timetables or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. American may, without notice, substitute alternate carriers or aircraft and, if necessary, may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket. Schedules are subject to change without notice. American is not responsible for or liable for failure to make connections, or to operate any flight according to schedule, or for a change to the schedule of any flight. Under no circumstances shall American be liable for any special, incidental or consequential damages arising from the foregoing.”
Meaning we have no liability to actually fly anywhere or do anything and your sole remedy is a refund.
The next interesting and relevant section deals with denied boarding:
“OVERSALES
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than there are seats available), and you are denied boarding involuntarily at the airport, you will be entitled to a payment of “denied boarding compensation” from American unless
1. American arranges for you to be transported on another flight scheduled to arrive at your destination or next 4-hour stopover no later than one hour after your originally scheduled arrival time, or
2. You did not fully comply with American’s ticketing and check-in requirements, as set forth in the check-in requirements section, or cannot be accepted for transportation under the rules set forth the acceptance of passengers section.
3. You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled, or
4. You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons,
5. You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified on your ticket, at no additional charge. If you are seated in a section for which a lower fare is applicable, you will be given an appropriate refund.
On American Airlines, Inc. Flights, if you are eligible for denied boarding compensation, you will be offered a payment equal to the sum of the face value of your flight coupon(s) to your point of destination or first stopover, subject to a maximum of $200. However, if American cannot arrange “alternate transportation” (as defined below) for you, the compensation will be doubled subject to a maximum of $400.
On American Eagle flights with 60 seats or less, if you are eligible for denied boarding compensation the total value of the coupon in question will be refunded (not to exceed $100.00) and you will be transported, free of charge, on the next available American Eagle flight to your destination or next point of stopover/connection. The total value of the coupon (not to exceed $100.00) will be refunded without regard to the availability of later service or your arrival time on that service at your destination or next point of stopover/ connection.
The “value” of a flight coupon is the one-way fare for the flight segment(s) shown on the coupon(s) (including any surcharge and air transportation tax, minus any applicable discount) to your destination or next scheduled 4-hour stopover. “Alternate transportation” is air transportation or other transportation used by you which, at the time the arrangement is made, is scheduled to arrive at your destination or next scheduled stopover no later than 2 hours (for domestic flights) or 4 hours (for international flights) after your originally scheduled arrival time.
If you voluntarily relinquish your confirmed reservation upon request by American, you may receive a travel voucher valid for travel on American. Likewise, if you are entitled to denied boarding compensation, you may elect to receive a travel voucher valid for travel on American. These travel vouchers may be used only for the purchase of air transportation on American, and must be used within one (1) year of their issuance.
Your acceptance of denied boarding compensation relieves American from any further liability caused by its failure to honor your confirmed reservation.”
Look at #2 and 4. Might be relevant here – note that if they change an MD80 for an RJ you are screwed. Now, if your denied boarding was the result of an RJ being substituted for a MD80 the result of AA failing to comply with an airworthiness directive, that presents a rather interesting analysis, the type of which for which I am paid, so you will not get it here for free!
What I see as most interesting here is that the Fed rules require that you get a refund PLUS denied boarding comp – here – all AA is willing to do is refund your ticket up to $200.
The LAST sentence is VERY interesting since it implies you can get additional compensation other than that which is stated by refusing to agree to accept the denied boarding compensation. This is the argument I would make to counter paragraph which is entitled “Responsibility for Schedules etc” – why put this section if there is no liability for anything under the Responsibility for schedules section?
You see folks, under AA’s contract, there is ZERO reason for them to ask for volunteers since all they need to do is bump from the cheapest fares upward until they get to the $400 and $800 one way fare level and it costs them much less than asking for volunteers, even if the vouchers are worth less than their face value. I’ll betcha thats how they do it, too, after they exhaust the list of people they can technically bump, like folks who wait til the last minute on an oversold flight to board.
One LAST point, read the language of the valuation of the ticket carefully: it does NOT state the value of YOUR ticket – it states: “The “value” of a flight coupon is the one-way fare for the flight segment(s) shown on the coupon(s) (including any surcharge and air transportation tax, minus any applicable discount) to your destination.”
The value of the one way segment at the LAST MINUTE, not the fare being paid. Thus, EVERYONE should get the maximum value stated in the contract, not their paid fare. Keep that in mind if ever bumped.
IMHO the easiest way to compensate passengers is to include in the rules “compensatory damages” subject to proof by the consumer. This way, if you DO pay $800 for substitute transport, lose a hotel room, or some other tangible loss, you can get it. This would force the airlines to consider the inconvenience of bumping into the compensation offered when seeking volunteers – it also gives them a financial incentive to improve the overbooking software.
Reading Joe’s comment:
So, basically, AA (and I assume other carriers) pretty much write in their CoC that they’re not responsible for anything, after they’ve taken your money. That’s interesting, because any judge will have to throw the entire CoC out of the courtroom, because such a clause makes the contract fundamentally unfair. You can’t sell a product and then include in the fine-print that it’s up to you to decide whether you actually deliver the product.
Furthermore, I always wonder why the carriers themselves *never* refer to their CoC when replying to customers. Why don’t they just say simply: “According to rules 61-b-1 from our CoC, you are not entitled to anything”. To me, this basically means that they don’t take the CoC serious themselves.
This section of the Contract of Carriage seems to indicate he is entitled to a full refund.
Involuntary Refunds:
In the event the refund is required because of American’s … refusal to transport, the following refund will be made directly to you -
1. If the ticket is totally unused, the full amount paid (with no service charge or refund penalty), or…
One thing you might consider is to serve AA via one of their airport employees – not via their corp offices. That makes it less likely that they will show up to the hearing. This has been done before: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20061208/170743.shtml
but check w/ the rules for your small claims court.
and if they don’t want to pay up… you can always get a lien on their equipment. don’t bother w/ anything less than a plane. This too has been done before to good effect. (alas, i cannot find a link to this – key things only accept cash, you need the plane’s registration # & make sure you have a sheriff there to enforce it.)
jb – that was me – we liened a TWA 727 @ LAX in the late 1980’s for an unpaid small claims judgment – was a blast. $3276 I think it was – we demanded cash and the station manager went airline counter to airline counter raising cash. Was not me personally, but a partner who was wronged. He was having a blast watching the scurrying and rather enjoyed the begging.
As for Jaspers comment, yeah, but the CofC has a savings clause.
Trust me – EVERY travel industry contract has the same language that they are not responsible to take you on the trip they sold you. The cruise company could theoretically take you on a dingy cruise of Ft. Lauderdale, buy you a meal at the port choke and puke and call it a day. Go read the clauses.
Oh, our OP is entitled to a full refund plus compensation. The CofC does NOT need to comply or restate the law – the DOT bumping rules apply whether AA has them in the contract or not . . .
That TWA lien story is a classic. I heard a similar story a few years ago involving Northwest. Would loved to have been there for that!
I’m still at loss for words. Bumping a passenger so someone on Standby can get a seat. I always thought Standbys dont get seat assignments unless extra seats are available
No, you have to be “ready to board”, not on board.
“DOMESTIC TRAVEL
“In addition to checking in 30 minutes before departure, you must be present at the departure gate and ready to board at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure time to retain your reservation and a seat.”
You accidently contradicted yourself.
I am purchasing a ticket at the moment to tend to family matters on the other coast, and Expedia.com and Orbitz.com list all the inexpensive tickets as American Airlines. Having heard about all their flight cancellations in recent weeks I wanted to check their current status before purchasing a ticket. My Google search showed your blog and after reading it, I can tell you, it is not worth saving $500 to end up stuck with an airline that disregards basic serivce and “speaks with forked tongue”. I have flown perhaps a million miles with American over the last 20 years but I am fed up with this stuff. I don’t want to be the next unfortunate goose getting mistreated by the airlines as they did with Dr. MS. I will gladly pay more for acceptabeol service and honesty. JetBlue here I come! Sincerely, Dr. LD.
I was traveling to the US last week and I something clicked which was funny, after I read this blog posting. United airlines had over-booked one of their flights and was offering passengers who would be willing to travel on a later flight a first class ticket on that later flight plus a ticket for travel anywhere within the lower 48 states.
If they can afford to fly someone on a first class ticket and provide a free ticket, then shouldn’t they be able to compensate a traveler who was “denied boarding”?
And then there’s the saga of the incredible ‘rubber’ boarding pass. My husband is in Prague this week on government business. The other day he was notified that his original flight home was canceled and they had rebooked him on an earlier flight. He would have to get up at 3 am and spend 5 hours in Frankfort. A pain, but doable. Then he learns that friend is still booked on the original flight so he now knows that the original flight was not canceled. My husband figures he was bumped. Gets to the airport at four and is told by Lufthansa that since his flight was changed he’d need a coupon voucher. Finally gets to the agent at Lufthansa for a flight voucher and is told he has no ticket for the flight United moved him to. He has a reservation but no ticket. I’m not sure what the distinction is here. The Lufthansa agent and my husband both try to get United on the phone to find out what is happening and when they get through United tells my husband the Lufthansa changed the fight. Does this matter to the traveler? I don’t think so. United offers him a flight leaving in a half hour but there is no chance of clearing security for it. Then she offers to place him on his ORIGINAL FLIGHT. Huh? “Sure, there are plenty of seats on this flight”. At this point the United agent and the Lufthansa agent are yelling at each other, my husband has now paid forty five minutes on an international phone call on his cell not to mention getting up at three a.m. We have no idea why he was taken off the original flight in the first place and why he would not have a ticket when they changed his flight and why he would need a voucher coupon for a change they made in the first place.
These airlines are partners??? I shudder at the thought of flying anymore.
Lesson: if they ‘cancel’ your flight get on the phone and make sure it truly is canceled. It’s so much fun keeping up with the airlines anymore. It’s like a Cyclopes watching a three ring circus.
@ Judy: This is odd. Usually, it’s Lufthansa messing up. They are the worst. Except in this case apparently.
If you’re denied proper compensation for denied boarding when you have checked in on time, are at plane on time, and two certified letters to the customer service dept. of the airline do not get you proper compensation, GO TO THE LOCAL SMALL CLAIMS COURT IN THE COUNTY WHERE YOU BOOKED THE TICKET. Sue them. In NJ it’s about $29.00. Get your judgement. HOPE THEY DON’T SHOW UP IN COURT! Send airline copies of paperwork on the judgement. If you STILL don’t get compensation, take the judgement papers to your State Attorney General For Consumer Affairs. He/she can issue an injunction stopping the airline from doing business in your state. See how quick the thought of that finally gets the airline’s attention! This can be fun, if you enjoy the David / Goliath sort of thing.
Unfortunately, the consumer of any product/service can expect this to be the norm in dealings with large companies. It’s like the auto manufacturers who produce cars with exploding gas tanks or faulty transmissions. Unless your government stands up for you (lol) it’s cheaper for the company to pay a law suit judgment for the few who file than do the right thing initially. Since our useless representatives in Congress do nothing to penalize these companies, or even produce a passenger bill of rights with some teeth, expect more of the same.
Keep us updated on this! Excellent story.
It seems curious to me the ‘language’ that AA used in the letter,
“we were required to involuntarily remove you from the flight”
almost seems like they were told, perhaps by TSA to remove you??
Just seems like an interesting use of language
Well, it never seems any airline will pay when you get up and leave and use competitor like the good Doctor did here. Maybe they would of compensated further if he hung on with AA and took a later flight. If your 7 AM flight is canceled to Orlando, and their next 3 are already full, that’s when the airlines need to step up and move you to another airline, not bump the guy on the next flight to get the 7 AM customer there. The government needs to step in here.
One word: Jetblue: “Customers who are involuntarily denied boarding shall receive $1,000.”
Basically, Jetblue is saying that they won’t bump you. EVER.
Very interesting discussion. I am a travel consultant but do almost NO airline travel unless it is part of a full travel package (airline plus hotel or cruise) and then, it becomes the responsibility of the tour operator or cruise line, if there is a problem with the air.
It is a sad commentary on the airlines, the Congress and the flying public that: the airlines no longer care about “customer service”; the Congress cares only about big business; and the flying public is not willing to take the airlines to task for their inconsideration and downright rudeness.
How about we all start taking the train–Amtrak–to our destinations. I know that the time involved is longer, BUT if we’re not flying, the airlines are not making any money!!!! I would drive to many of my destinations if the cost of gas was not so high right now. I always drove to where I was going before unless it was cross-country or international.
Hope any flyer who gets bumped gets top compensation, either from the airline or from the courts. FIGHT ON!!!!
Unfortunately, taking the train is not a better option. My understanding is that freight companies own almost all the cross-country rail lines and Amtrak buys/leases use on those lines for passenger trains. If a freight train is using a line, the passenger train can get delayed or bumped. It’s no different.
I, too, wish there were more options for fighting the airlines! Unfortunately, any elected official is in the pocket of those who paid to get him/her there. I wish more elected officials would get some backbone and stand up to these huge businesses!
What ever happened to the passenger Bill of Rights? I know it was shot down in Congress, but we should all write to our congressmen and senators to get them to re-introduce it, with stronger language.
The problem with boycotting airlines is that they all suck, they basically have an oligopoly so you really have no choice, and they can pretty much do anything that they want to you, because they get to make up the CoC and the customer is stuck with their rules, which obviously favor the airlines. And the problem in todays world is that if you get angry at an airline employee, they’ll basically charge you as a terrorist.
Personally, I take the train whenever I’m in the Boston to Philly corridor. The Acela between Boston and NYC is about 3.5 hrs and Philly to NYC is 1.25 hrs, you arrive at the station basically as the train is ready to leave, you’re in one seat the entire time (as opposed to waiting in a ticketing line, then security, then at the gate, then in the plane for the 45 minute flight) so you can get work done, you leave from and arrive at city centers, and you don’t have to wait for baggage or risk losing it. Much better option than flying.
Dear Mr. Farrell, Joe :
Thank you for replying to the Blog:
It was me who was bumped from the AA flight which started the blog. So here is my situation in more detail:
My flight was scheduled from ORD-DFW-ABQ at 6:45 AM from O’Hare confirmed seat 25A , my record locator was NIWPGN on March 07, 2008. I was there at airport terminal for more than an hour ago. I checked in online at least 12 hours before the flight. While boarding the plane from ORD – DFW, my electronic boarding pass was refused as the gate machine was did not recognize the bar code. So I went to the nearest AA person and I was informed that my ticket was automatically cancelled by the AA computer system about an hour ago and a voice message was left on my phone about 45 minutes ago!
There was another flight (from ORD) to DFW before 6:45 AM (around 6 AM) from AA and that was cancelled, so they accommodated passengers from that flight onto the flight I was supposed to fly.
AA offered and rebooked me automatically for the next day (March 08) afternoon via a direct flight from ORD- ABQ. Well I had no use to reach ABQ next day, the reason is below:
Reason for my travel: I had to reach ABQ around 2 PM so that I can reach Santa Fe, NM by 5 PM (March 07, 2008) for my annual research presentation for the American Medical Schools Pediatric Chairs Meeting. I am a second year resident physician the University of Illinois at Chicago who can only afford American Advantage membership. So it was a life time opportunity for any resident to present to all the chair persons of the American medical schools.
In order to reach my destination I called southwest airline that had the next flight in two hours from Midway (Chicago), so I took CTA from ORD to Midway (blue line and then changed to orange). The flight ticket was from MDW to ABQ was $761 exactly so that I could reach my destination in time. United and all other airlines from ORD could not get me to my destination in time so I took the hassle to go to MDW.
So coming back to “forced denial of boarding” what do you think now? I feel it is like “UN-INFORMED SURGERY” performed on you WITHOUT your consent at the last minute.
Action taken so far my AA:
I got email from AA customer care and they have offered me now $250 (e-voucher) for denial of boarding now. And I have received the refund of the AA flight ticket back to my credit card (~$380). Also my plane was Boeing 737, not a 60 seater.
What do I want?
Mr. Farrell I thank you for your response. I was wondering what you think about your statement you made in the blog above about for paying back the money I spent on my ticket? The alternate mode of transport by AA was not in accordance with the CoC and the denied boarding was illegal and not in accordance with the CoC and I am still not reimbursed fully. So I will appreciate the corrective action from AA.
I know AA can find some twist to their CoC to deny my claims, but what would except if it was you in my shoes?
Thank you,
Mohit Singla, MD
I am taking the train to see my daughter in Virgnia next month. I will pick up the train 5 miles from my house and 18 hours later (give or take) arrive in Alexandria 5 miles from my daughters house. Sleep in a comfortable seat, watch a movie, have sit down dinner Total cost – $160.00 plus meals
Compare this with –
Driving – leave house at 4AM to be away from cities for rush hour. Arrive 13 hours later, assuming 5-10 mph over speed limit at all times, no traffic jams, good weather, no car trouble, and meals at the drive through eaten on the road. Arrive 5PM exhausted having spent $240 on gas plus meals
Flying – leave home at 3AM to get to early, early morning flight (best chance to get a decent seat) two hours early. Stand in line, take off shoes, worry about laptop etc,, sit at gate, worry if plane is late. Arrive (inside airport) at 11AM, have bags by 12:00, get to my daughters house by 2PM, exhausted, aggravated, in pain from being squished into small seat, possibly without luggage. Cost – just under $300.00 at last check.
Why would I fly when I can drive for just 3 more hours and not have to worry about getting treated badly, bumped, lost luggage, late plane, cancelled flight, etc. etc. etc.
Why drive when I can arrive 5 hours later than driving, rested, and refreshed.
It becomes less reasonable the further you have to go but I don’t think I’ll fly to Virginia again unless it’s an emergency.
Dr. Singla, you caused your own trouble by attempting to fly in on the day of your critical meeting. No airline on the planet can be held to the standard of getting you to your destination on that tight a timeline; weather delays, ATC delays, etc. can all conspire to prevent an airline from getting you there on-time even when they’re doing their best.
We hear stories like yours all the time. The person whose cruise ship leaves the dock at 5 PM so they time their flight to arrive at the airport at 2 PM; one missed connection or flight delay and the ship leaves without them.
AA would have completely fulfilled their contract to you if they got you to your destination within 4 hours. That would have left you late for your speaking session and would have entitled you to absolutely zero compensation.
Quite simply put, you should have flown in the previous evening. If you can’t afford the extra day, then you can’t afford to accept the speaking engagement. That’s life.
With all due respect, sir, this was a self-inflicted wound. If you didn’t have the insanely tight time requirement, you could have accepted the next-flight-out, or taken a much less expensive flight on another airline.
And no, I don’t work for an airline. Or in the travel industry. In fact, I’ve spent years doing conference speaking. And I always arrive at least a day ahead of my first session, even when it’s inconvenient. On two occasions my schedule was so tight that I had to risk flying (internationally, no less) with less than 12 hours before my next speaking engagement; I worked with the conference manager to ensure the best possible outcome were I delayed past my speaking time.
I’m not surprised by anything American Airlines does. I will not fly this airline anymore. Unfortunately ,last year, my brother passed away unexpectedly while I was in Dominican Republic. Due to ice on the wings( it rained in D.R. before we took off) and the failure of the airline personell to deal with the situation appropiately we were diverted from Newark, N.J.. to Florida because it was Winter and we had to go to a ‘warm airport’ due to the ice. Thirteen hours later I reached Newark. I missed the Funeral and since he was cremated there was no burial. The trip was a complete BUST. The heartache I felt was immeasurable and to this day I feel guilty. My compensation …..$150
Something is fishy with this story. I do not understand how nor why Mohit’s reservtion was cancelled although he had checked in online. Furthermore, as someone else asked, did he not present at the gate at the right time? Just being present in the terminal is not sufficient for most airlines. And, lastly, I agree with J. Drew who says that you should not fly to your conference on the same day as your presentation, and the if it has to be that way, then you probably shouldn’t do it.
I think, as a fellow doc, I can say that seeing that you are a resident still, you still have a lot to learn with regards to how to plan on attending conferences and giving presentations. The last thing you would want to do is to arrive tired and weary-looking at a conference where you are being given a privilege to present your research. Chicago to Santa Fe via Dallas and then Albuquerque is a long, long way, and such a travel plan is fraught and filled with many “What if?”s. If the travel reason is important, then give it the appropriate level of importance and spend the $ on a hotel the night before to arrive at your speaking engagement as fresh and prepared as possible.
I still say there is more to this story than we are getting on this blog. May Christopher Elliot get to the bottom of this!
I don’t understand Dr. Singla’s statement “I am a second year resident physician the University of Illinois at Chicago who can only afford American Advantage membership.” American Advantage membership is free.
Was this a frequent flyer ticket he was using? In which case it may be legit for American to have bumped him to accomodate revenue-producing passengers whose flight was cancelled.
And, yeah, while it is not desirable to fly in just before a presentation, business travelers do it all the time. One of my pet peeves is the converse – people leaving meeting early because they arranged their flights based on the earliest time the meeting might end. My usual approach is to book an airport hotel and fly back the next morning, but that isn’t always feasible.
American Airlines has been horrific the last two times we flied. I have 145,000 (mostly via my CC over the last few years) miles with them that I cannot wait to use up so that I am never tempted to fly them again.
Sounds like the resident made a few errors. Yeah, it’s dumb to schedule flights so close to a professional presentation (while it might be normal for seasoned business travelers, it is not normal for conference presenters). It’s also a bit silly to make your own arrangements, then expect that AA pay for your new itinerary.
Anyway, the complainant received a full refund plus a $250 voucher and got to his destination on time with other carriers. I wouldn’t be holding my breath for anything more than that – especially after reading the correspondence. I realize that English is his second language, but more care could be given to writing in a clear and concise manner. Accusing AA of unscrupulous and illegal behavior is not a recipe for acquiring additional compensation.
Oh, and I agree with Miriam – leaving a meeting early to catch a flight is bad form. When things go long, it’s usually because the meeting is productive and additional time is required to discuss the issues. I usually book a later flight (or a next-day flight) and try to get on an earlier plane if things wrap up early.
Taking the stance “you should plan your presentations better” or “if you can’t get there early, you can’t afford to present at the conference” is a little harsh. He was trying to present at an important conference, something that could potentially bring lifelong benefits in his career as a doctor.
Furthermore, the information that he is a second-year resident plays a key role: he probably has no real control over his schedule. He may have only been able to get a narrow band of days off from his residency to present at this conference, or he may not have been able to find someone to cover an extra day’s worth of shifts so he could arrive early. Residents typically work at least 80 hours a week, and often much more depending on their specialty.
So cut him some slack… not everyone has the time or ability to pad in extra travel time for every event in their lives.
For those who say Dr. Singh “planned” incorectly, you obviously have no idea what a resident must go through. Their schedule is one that is NOT flexible. Should he have flown in the night before? Perhaps, but how do you know he wasn’t on call the night before?
Saying it’s “his” fault is arrogant and ignorant. Bottom line, he was there with plenty of time, he checked in 12hrs early, whether it was a FF ticket or not is irrelevant. AA issued a contract that is expected to be honored, and it was not for no apparant reason.
Take them to small claims court, if they don’t show up, lien their planes so they can’t fly.
Stop trying to blame the passenger here! It’s not relevant where he was going to, or why, or whether he should have booked a day before. Whether he was going to Aunt Minnie’s funeral or on vacation, what’s important is that he was depending on AA to fulfill their end of the deal and they dropped him while he was in line to get where he needed to go. And didn’t take care of him and didn’t pay compensation. And that’s just inexcuseable.
“Due to the weather the flight was overbooked”? This is the lamest excuse possible and makes little sense – and it would be very interesting to hear it explained in small claims court. If, for example, AA had a delayed or cancelled flight due to weather they’d wouldn’t just be bumping one or two passengers downstream.
The Dr. should ask his local Small Claims Court legal advisor how to subpeona AA’s cancellation/delay records for that day if he wants to test that excuse. They’ve opened the door in the letter, he should have no trouble with the court. He might even be able to subpeona Operations Officers, Customer Relations Officers, the CFO, and the CEO to explain themselves and their policies. I’m willing to bet that rather than comply with all that he’ll get a settlement check from AA.
I agree with posters CS, W Lee and Meredith. Most residents are overworked and have little to no control over their schedules. Even though they may be legally held to an 80-hour work week, many work over 80 hours “under the table” for lack of a better term. And at $40-$45k a year salary, it makes for little disposable income to purchase plane tickets with.
And when it comes down to it, the reason for travel is not important here. It is apparent that AA wronged Dr. Singh, and I commend him for standing up to them. More people should stand up to large companies who count on their customers not fighting back (whether they’re airlines, insurance companies, etc.). These large companies count on people just rolling over. From personal experience I know that even just sending a letter on legal letterhead usually scares companies straight.
Though I fly rather frequently, I have never had much occasion to fly on AA; and after hearing horror stories like Dr. Singh’s and that AA is starting to charge $15 for a first checked bag, I’ll avoid them whenever possible. Too bad United is also on my s*** list (for several instances of changed tickets with no notice whatsoever). Anyone know of any half-way decent airlines???
Don’t be afraid to go to Small Claims Court. It’s not hard, it’s an interesting experience, and you just need to read everything closely and do your homework. Make sure you bring a copy of your statement for both the judge and the other party.
FYI, I just sued a telemarketer, GFK automotive, in Santa Monica Small Claims Court. They even sent their New York counsel. And guess what: I won. And I’m a syndicated advice columnist, not a lawyer.
P.S. Joe, just LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the story about the lien on the plane.
Oh, and one more thing: companies doing business in a particular state will need to have what’s called an “agent for service of process.” You can probably serve them in your state and they have to come to court there (the law is the “International Shoe Case” — yes, I really do my homework). That said, I’m not the lawyer, Joe is…so doublecheck whether this works in your case. If it does, with this kind of service (to an “agent for service of process”), you just do it registered mail and it should get there just fine. I think it costs $15 to serve them that way. And you should be able to find out who their agent is on your secretary of state’s website.
Don’t let big companies victimize you! If they’re big and in the wrong, go after them. It’s the right thing to do, and it may keep them from victimizing others in the future.
Message: i have booked a flight from muscat to zurich on 16th of june 2008 and obtained chengun visa multi entry but when i arrived to the boarding desk at muscat airport i have been told that i will not be allowed to travell to swizertland since i am omani citizen therefore i went home back, but at the next day i contacted swiss embassy at muscat which they clarify the issue with swiss airline then i travelled the next day. now i have been hurt by the swiss air and many commiments have been cancelled. this issue impacted my feeling and emotion between my society also physically i am not alright negatively therefore i should be compensated by the swiss airline because of this problem. at this time i am prepairing my all documents and evidence to submit it to the court at my country. this is for youre kind information and then the company reply that i could be compensated for about three hundred dollars. what do you think
Language: EN
This might explain it. See (b).
§ 250.6 Exceptions to eligibility for denied boarding compensation.
A passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
(a) The passenger does not comply fully with the carrier’s contract of carriage or tariff provisions regarding ticketing, reconfirmation, check-in, and acceptability for transportation;
(b) The flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons;
Okay, here’s a new spin. I arrived 45 minutes prior to departure, and NorthWest did not let me check in!
I beleive they had overbooked, and simply denied boarding to the last to check in. Two solutions – 1) always check in the prior night, and 2) DONT FLY NORTHWEST
Nav
I found this funny video site with 2 original video’s up here are the teaser
” How to ruin somebodies wedding in 10 easy steeps”
” 10 Things you don’t want to do on your first date”
Check it out link is in my signature.