Hey, where’s my airline seat?
Question: I need your advice on an uncomfortable problem I had on a recent trip. I was on a Delta Air Lines flight from Philadelphia to Atlanta, and was one of the last people to board the aircraft. When I got to my seat, half of it was missing.
Sitting next to me, in the middle seat, was an extremely large woman. So large that she not only took up her own seat, but half of mine. There was no way for her to put the armrest down. She said she hoped there was room for me.
I discreetly asked one of the flight attendants if I could buy a seat in first class, and was told that first class was full. I asked if the remainder of the plane was full, and was told there were no empty seats.
A flight attendant suggested that the only way to change my seat was to “find a cute boy or girl” with a free lap. Not only did I find this offensive, but also it was distressing.
One of the flight attendants came over and offered the large passenger next to me a seat-belt extender. I tried to sit down, but ended up spending half of the flight on this woman’s lap and the other half spilling over into the aisle.
I e-mailed Delta after the flight and asked for a refund. I bought one seat, and I didn’t even get half of one. Delta thanked me for the feedback but refused to do anything. Don’t you think I deserve something?
–Julie Liening, Henderson, Nev.
Answer: You paid for a whole seat, but got only half of one. Do you really need me to tell you that you got ripped off?
Not really. But here it goes, anyway: You got ripped off.
Or maybe it would be more accurate to say the XL passenger next to you got a deal on her ticket — two seats for the price of one. Either way, it’s wrong — and the attitude of Delta’s flight attendants and customer service representatives didn’t exactly help.
Delta, and most of the other network airlines, tends to look the other way when someone unusually tall or wide boards its aircraft. At least one carrier, Southwest Airlines, doesn’t. It requires that plus-sized passengers buy an extra seat (they get their money back if there are empty seats). I could find no policy regarding these oversized travelers on Delta’s Web site, which says to me that your seatmate wasn’t out of line in booking only one seat.
I think you took all the right first steps in resolving this dispute. Asking a flight attendant for another seat, and offering to buy a first-class seat, was a good start. You were also smart to brush off the crewmember’s insensitive comments. Your next step would have been to appeal this to the chief purser and pilot. Obstructing the aisle of an aircraft is a safety hazard, not a punch line in a flight attendant’s joke.
Similarly, your decision to e-mail Delta was correct. But you shouldn’t have taken its “no” for an answer. You could have — and should have — appealed the decision to someone higher up. I list all of the customer-service contacts at Delta and other major U.S. airlines on my Web site; click on “Help” for the details.
I encouraged you to appeal Delta’s denial. This time, the airline sent you a flight voucher for $250, along with an apology.
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33 Responses to “Hey, where’s my airline seat?”
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I have a supplemental question re this. If Ms. Liening had approached the purser for that flight and said, “Either find me another seat, or rebook me on another flight” where would she stand. Presumably she cannot be required to sit in half a seat, and the airline would be very annoyed at having to rebook someone who’d boarded, as well as offload their luggage. Fortunately, I’ve never been in this situation, but given how frequently I fly I probably will be at some point.
This is a good question. I fly a lot. I have almost been in this situation several times but each time, due to there being empty seats, I have “wigged out of it.” (pun intended.)
I would like to hear your opinion on passenger rights.
On all the above occasions, I have been prepared to use the “I have a bad back that requires me to sit straight and properly in my seat so I am unable to sit with side pressure” line. (They can imagine what “side pressure” is.)
As America grows increasingly larger in girth and airlines increasingly shrink the seating space, there will be a tipping point. This can’t continue. Has US airline service become more like the trains in India (and other countries) I used to take where 4 people were crowded in the space for 3, and the third space was your seat? When you would complain to the conductor, he’d shrug and say, “Your seat is there. Please sit down” and walk away…
I had a similar experience on a Delta flight. The guy in the middle seat was not overweight, he was about 6′7 and was built like a football player. I asked the flight attendant if I could have another seat. She said “no”. I asked her to sit in my seat for 1 minute to see if it felt safe to her. She looked at me and said, “I don’t think so honey”. Two seconds later the doors closed and I noticed that one of the 1st class seats was empty. I took it without asking. ARGH! I’m a platinum medallion member and I was still treated poorly. I’m not sure why they keep bailing Delta out of financial trouble. Maybe if they improved their customer service things would be a little more in the black for them.
There is another side to every story. I am not doubting the complainants description as I was not there. i can only relate to my past experience. As an oversized person who frequently uses seat belt extensions I can tell you that none of my body extends over into the adjoining passengers seat. I have found that a lot of passengers exaggerate this in order to get better seating..such as next to an empty seat, first class or some advantage. Sometimes I find this offensive..as I said although I am large not one centimeter of my body extends over to the next passengers seat or space. They just don’t like it. On several occasions I have experienced the other passengers angry looks, complaints to the attendants and even some snotty remarks by the flight staff. I usually take all of this in stride because although slightly offended I am more amused and patient as I just can’t wait to have that empty seat next to me. So I let the ill tempered, spoiled, demanding passenger exaggerate and complain and I keep my mouth shut…..usually they move them. Later during the flight I get to look at them still scowling and I give them a triumphant smile..which confuses the hell out of them. The real culprits in these scenarios is often forgotten…it is the AIRLINES STUPID! …..they are the ones who have over the years shrunken the seats and the service. Please everyone keep focused on this..not the “oversized” passengers…it is the undersized seating and space that the Airline is squeezing you into..for the sake of more profit. Please direct your anger toward them…please stop letting the Airlines redirect your anger toward your fellow passenger/ Remember this if they keep shrinking the seats…..you too will eventually be labled an oversized passenger. DUH!!
The comment from Lex sounds like some of the poor folk who have sat next to me… This is a real challenge for flying these days. I am 6′ 5″ tall and on the upper side of the BMI for Average, so to lose a few lbs wouldn’t hurt, but most folk when they find out how much I weigh are rather surprised that I am actually as heavy as I am. All that to say; some of us don’t really have a lot of choice in how large we are, it is part of our genes. In the case like you cite above the obese lady may or may not have an eating problem, many do we cannot deny, but some do have legit medical conditions and are left with little choice in size. But I know in my own case how many times I have gotten stuck in the middle of a row, the times I couldn’t get an exit row seat and so often the person in the exit seat is 5′ 5″ and 140lbs… not right when those of us who through no fault of our own could use the extra leg room. The times I have had to finally get rude with the jerk in front of me who keeps pounding the seat into my knees trying to recline their seat in the overnight flights. I do appreciate that a reclined seat is easier to sleep in, I recline mine, but to keep pounding the seat into my already sore knees is also unfair.
The problem is that airlines need to take into account that there are some of us that can only afford the coach class price, yet have to fly as cars are not an option for driving over the oceans; yet we are large through no fault of our own, nor do we want to be a problem for our fellow passengers, but a simple deal of not giving the exit row seats away to anyone shorter than 6′ 5″ till right before the gate closes would help. Another idea would be to have a couple of the not so desirable seats, like next to the toilets, widened or something. I would endure the nuisance/shame factor of that to have just a wee bit more room for my shoulders and legs. There has to be a way to make some accommodations for those of us who are larger for the sake of those who are cramped by us.
There are a few very simple ways to avoid this.
1) Get on early, put the armrest down, then it is Biggie’s problem, and not yours.
2) When booking your flight, choose a seat in the exit row, on the bulkhead, or some other row where the tables are in the armrests. These armrests are metal, and Biggie cannot encroach.
3) When Biggie is unhappy, be polite, but firm. Most Biggies are unhappy and self-indulgent. That’s why they are so “big”.
Another reader contributed that “exit rows should be reserved for people 6-5 or more”. That’s ridiculous! I have arthritis in my hips and legs - painful, but not disabling. Since I am a high-time flier, I have the option of choosing an exit row, and thus avoiding the knee-bangers. Please let the tall people find another solution.
Jon,
I would argue that at your height, you are a “special needs” passenger, and should alert the airlines of your special needs when you book, and again at check in. I have a colleague who is taller than you, and I have told him the same thing. If you book through a travel agent, make sure your travel agent alerts the airline. If you fly with one of the airlines that doesn’t assign seats, board first as a special needs flyer.
Most Biggies are unhappy and self-indulgent. That’s why they are so “big”. - Richard Carson
Wow - that’s certainly presumptuous. I like Southwest’s policy of purchasing a 2nd seat with a refund if there are empty seats. I know some may feel that’s discrimination, but I disagree. If you can’t afford business or 1st class, and you still want to fly, then I do think a person should pay for a second seat if they take up part of another seat. No sense in you AND your neighbor being uncomfortable (and let me assure you, “Biggie” is even more uncomfortable than the smaller person, and putting their own safety and health at just as much, if not more, risk than the smaller person). Could the airlines make the seats wider? Sure, but I just don’t know if that will ever happen, and if they did so, would the possibly increased cost of airfare cause backlash among the general population? Hard to tell, given that I think the majority of passengers can fit in the seats without impacting space in the next seat. Plus, what’s to stop smaller people from buying the wider seats simply because they want more space? Do you have to state your weight upon buying the ticket? Detail your waist-to-hip proportions? Because if the airlines ever were to have a section for larger passengers, please know that I would be less than pleased to have a 130-lb person seated in a section because they wanted to get on the flight. Talk about encroachment!
I do think it’s a shame that petulant name-calling and insults always seem to accompany these types of discussion. Is it really necessary to state your case by insulting others? All it does is make you look bad and interferes with the credibility of your perspective.
You know, all of this can be avoided if the airlines made it a rule that a person must purchase a second seat (or exit the plane and book another flight) if the armrest can NOT be put down on both sides of them. I, too, have been seated next to a very large person that could not sit in the seat without both armrests up. For the entire flight, I had to sit with my arms crossed because there was no room for my arms to rest at my side (I was literally up against the window the whole time, no exaggeration). If this rule was adopted, it would be a simple and easy fix. The flight attendants walk by numerous times to check for seat belts and seatbacks in the upright position. They can also make sure that all armrests are in the down position before takeoff. Problem solved.
I have had to take a flight home from Orlando next to a person that should have been required to purchase two seats. I was traveling with my very thin 8 year old daughter who refused to sit in the middle after some heated arguing in front of this larger stranger. Her point was he was a stranger and would be touching her because he was taking up a good portion of her seat. I felt horrible for this person, he was heavy but I don’t think he put on that weight to make my flight miserable. Yet, it was a miserable flight and I sat as much in my daughter’s seat as I could (yes, I caved and let her get her way so she wouldn’t have to share her seat with the large man).
This flight made me also question the seating policy of airlines. Unfortunately, I also work for a travel agency and I know that there are not many travelers that are going to call you and say I need two seats because I’m too big for one. The airlines would be required to approach these people at the gate and tell them to purchase an additional seat. I’m not thinking that makes for too many nice scenes at the terminals. And are they going to measure them? Yes, larger seats are probably the best option at a higher price but not the price of first class or two individual seats. Not sure how many airlines are willing to flip that cost though.
Oh and the person’s arguement on Exit Row because of arthritis. Please don’t be on any of my flights, you are in the Exit Row because you have to help us get out in an emergency and get that door open, not for your personal comfort.
This has happened to me many times. I weigh 182lbs and I am 5′11
I fly over 200000 miles a year every year since 1964. Here’s the only way to fix this. Pick a fight with the big person and you get thrown off the plane. I say in my fine english well-educated accent “Excuse me Sir but you are sitting in some of my seat” They usually reply “I am sorry” Then you say nicely “You have to get your body out of my seat”. They say “You are being cruel and unkind” I say “No you are too big for the size of the seat” or “This planes seats were designed for athletes not fatsos”
No airline will take your side in any fisticuffs that ensue and all the other passengers on the plane will suppose you are the ‘bad guy’
you allowed this to happen. you now have unhappy pilot and right behind him you have unhappy fight attendants, and then us, the unhappy crj flying public.
you are 3rd. ist place goes to the ceo who writes himself a big cheque at all the pilots, flight attendants and us in 3rd place.
sometimes a ceo gets to write himself a cheque from two airlines.
why are you allowing airline employees to be treated so shabbily and wondering why they show YOU no respect?
I’m still waiting for a rational objection to my often-made proposal that the price of flying should increase as much as necessary for the airline to make a reasonable profit and that we revert to the ways of early airline travel: anyone who cannot afford the freight, does not travel by air. It’s called the free market and would lead to more room and larger seats for every passenger because each airline will want its share of the people who can pay more.
I’m taking a family member the the UK. Because she has health problems and i don’t want to risk her getting a blood clot in steerage, I’m paying for first class seats for both of us. I don’t want to travel steerage anymore, either. It will flatten my bank account, but it’s worth it to save her life and my spine and sanity.
All of this could be resolved if they only would allow passengers to begin bringing weapons on board!
My stepfather loves nothing more than flying longhaul flights safely ensconced between two very large passengers. If he got the middle seat between two passengers who were both spilling into his seat, he would be overjoyed. He says the whole flight is warm and cozy, and much smoother in turbulence. It should be noted that he is very thin (with many sharp angles).
I don’t care for it myself, but I realize in a Supersized country like the US that I will sit next to a wide variety of passengers, and by the time the plane takes off, I am drunk out of my gourd and deep into the movies. (just kidding)
I really do get quite involved in the movies, though, and thinking back, I realize that sitting next to someone larger has been a bit uncomfortable sometimes because we americans don’t like the implied intimacy of sitting there rubbing elbows with a stranger, but I’ve never caught a disease or been injured.
It is what it is.
(copoied from antohrer forum)_
Summon the complaint resolution officer. This way the F/A you last talked to won’t “take the late” (an infraction) while the situation is being resolved and said F/A would therefore not be so impatient.
Then wait it out (who’s going to blink first?) while the F/A and CRO think about finding you any different seat.
Whether a large passenger should purchase another seat is irrelevant (off topic) to your discussion with the CRO.
I was sitting in a middle seat, minding my own business, when a large man sat down in the aisle seat, pulled up the arm rest and said something I’ll never forget: “We’ll both be more comfortable.” Not really.
And the situation repeated, with the same man, on a later flight.
I wanted to say something like, “I have an open sore on my hip and it could be infectious, so. for your protection, please try not to touch my side.”
I am not familiar with the Southwest policy, but it seems sensible - buy a second seat and they are even generous enough to give you a refund if the flight is not sold out. If you have oversized luggage, you have to pay more. If you want to ship an oversized package, you pay more.
There are size restrictions for many professions, such as police, firefighters, military personnel, because of the equipment they work with and the vehicles they use. If you don’t fit, you find a different profession and if you can’t fit in a standard airline seat, you need to buy a second one or find a different method of transportation.
The place to enforce this is not on the plane, however. It is at the ticket counter and the gate. There are mechanisms for determining whether your luggage meets the size requirements and something similar could be done for the passengers.
Embarrassing maybe, but YOUR rights end where MINE begin, and I have a right to safety and a small amount of comfort in the seat that I paid for.
I fly a few dozen times a year, and I have always wondered why the airlines do not remove the armrest next to the window or have armrests on that side that can be put up. I’ve seen the window-side armrest removed in exit rows, presumably to make it easier to get out of the plane in the emergency. If they did this throughout the plane, people who need an extra four inches (and it really is that much space!) could get it. They could even charge extra for these extra wide seats. It wouldn’t solve all of these problems, but it would be a good start. Is there a safety issue that prevents this?
Enough is enough! Since the last years I’ve watched despondently as our airline industry has gone to absolute rubbish. What with TSA, lost baggage, lost articles withiin baggage, and incredible airline practices, flight delays, etc, etc, etc. We, the unwitting public are left with no rights, and have to meekly accept what’s dished out. What we need desperately is a WATCHDOG organization WITH TEETH. This organization should be well publicized so that the public know that if they have any justified complaint(s), they will not be fobbed off; and maybe even investigate the claim(s), and dare I say it, maybe have the power to put it right.
I had 1st class upgrade on a Delta flight to DCA when it was cancelled. I wound up in the back of a flight to Baltimore between 2 large people. The lady in the window seat was so big the arm rest would not go down. Nearly 4 hours for this misery with no apology. Hell of a way to treat a high mileage frequent flyer.
My experience as a female passenger traveling alone - large size men who not only spill over into part of my seat but who seem to enjoy rubbing up against women! How do I know it’s deliberate? I move and they move closer to me. Rude! (I realize there are regular size guys who does this also, but it’s more obivious when they try to do it.) Another thing I’ve experienced from being seated next to oversized passengers is the BO problem.
Another poster said people of size can’t always help their size. I don’t buy that. Having been overweigh at one time, I think I can tell the difference between a person who is large by inherited genes & one who is truly overweigh (clue: rolls of fat).
NOTE to the tall posters - I do not think of you in the same category as the overweight. I had a friend who was 6′7″ and was a frequent traveler so I’ve heard from him how uncomfortable it is for you to fly. I’d rather have you guys sitting in the exit rows & bulkheads as you deserve. Aren’t a couple of airlines now offering extra spaced seats for an extra price?
WITH REFERENCE TO J MATLOCK, INDEED, THERE ARE A FEW AIRLINES CURRENTLY OFFERING ECONOMY PLUS, EXECUTIVE ECONOMY, ETC. WHAT IT MEANS YOU CAN A FEW MORE INCHES EXTRA. I FOR ONE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS TREND PROLIFERATING IN THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY.
Monica and all the others who point out ‘executive economy, economy plus, etc,’
It is NOT A WIDER SEAT. The issue with the girthy among us is width, not size between the seat rows. These premium economy products help those over 6ft tall - but not the wide loads.
I just recently ecperienced this on a Delta flight from Newark to Atlanta. The person sitting next to me was tall and wide, not fat, just a big guy. He was stuck in the middle seat, and really needed two seats, but did his best not to crowd me and the other person in our row. The arm rest was able to go down, so I said nothing to the airline. But would raise a fuss if the arm rest could not go down.
Honestly, I was amazed at the number of morbidly obese people on the plane, and recently read that airlines use tons of extra fuel to fly a plane with numerous overweight on board.
If comfort is a concern, travel by train whenever possible. Even the least expensive seats are larger than any domestic first class airline seats. Pitch is so great that only the tallest traveler could even reach the seat in front of them. A retractable footrest is provided for the rest of us. There are two seats on each side of the car, so there are no middle seats. AC power is available at each seat so you can operate whatever device you like, whenever you like. At less than 100mph trains are not as fast as 500mph jets, but the trips is far more pleasant and your travel time is considerably more productive. If you factor in the reduced lead time and convenient location of the stations you will find the door to door difference is not too great.
I don’t see a resolve in the making, but the airlines have compounded this problem. I am average size, i.e. 6′, 230 pounds. I have NEVER had any diffuculty putting the armrests down, indeed I can reach into my pants pocket with them down, but—-I have on numerous occasions felt discomfort and apologetic to poor people beside me simply because the seats are so narrow that my shoulders and hence, of course,my arms stick out on both sides. I either sit sideways, or most of the time, get an isle seat. That is a bit of a problem when the carts go by, but makes life better for all. The seats are simply too small for the average person. It won’t change.
It’s very simple. I paid for the use on one entire seat, which is the space between the armrests and between the gaps of the seat cushions. No other passenger may use the space I paid for, regardless of their size. It’s not personal, it’s not discriminatory, and I’m not interested in criticizing big people. It is the airline’s responsibility to ensure it does not defraud me by allowing other passengers to use the space I paid to use.
I just returned from a flight out of Atlant on Delta. The man next to me was so large that it was impossible for him to put down the armrest on either side. He was extremely obese to the point that he actually took half he seats on either side as he was in the middle seat. Myself and the other passenger were smushed into half our seat. Since it was a full flight, we had no option but to spend 2 1/2 hours in this fashion. Do I have pity for the poor man? Yes. But I also paid for my seat as did the other passenger. He got his seat and 1/2 of each of ours. I am tired of being accused of being heartless simply because I am upset at being deprived of 1/2 of the seat I paid for. Why does this obese man have more rights than I do? How is this fair or right? How is this defensible? Why should the obese person feel they have a right to steal half my seat and put me in a very uncomfortable spot for 2 1/2 hours? Where is the obese person’s responsibility? Why shouldn’t HE feel guilty for doing that to ME? Bottom line is that I fail to understand why I should be deprived of 1/2 of the seat I paid for and in reality be deprived of much more than that since the flight is spent in great discomfort through no choice of my own. My feeling is that if a person is obese for medical reasons and can supply the airline with a doctor’s certification of this fact, then they should get a discount on the second seat. Otherwise, they should have to buy two seats. This man clearly could not fit into one seat. Maybe he felt bad, maybe he didn’t. But one thing is certain. He forced me to sit on 1/2 a seat in discomfort for a 2 1/2 hour flight. Yes the seats are small and we all have to be understanding about that. Some people are larger, some taller, etc. I have no problem with them. But if they are so large that they cannot put down the armrest, it is WRONG for them to have free rein to steal 1/2 my seat. I cannot understand how anyone could consider it otherwise.
I forgot. These days, Delta boards you by zones. Unless you are travelling in first or business class, you must wait for your zone to be called. For reasons I do not comprehend, this man was in a zone ahead of me; yet, when my zone was called and I went to my assigned seat, there he was next to me. I couldn’t believe it! What sense doees that make?
When my husband and I were on traveling on a four hour flight on US Airways, the plane was completely booked and we were seated separately. I was in a window seat near the front and he was in an aisle seat three rows from the back. A very overweight woman sat in the middle seat next to me. About one hour into the flight, I felt hot, flushed and trapped. I asked the two people in my row to let me out immediately, but it took a while for her to move from the seat. By the time I reached the back of the plane, I started to black out. Two flight attendants noticed and sat me in the jump seat, put an ice pack on my neck and gave me oxygen. They asked me if I was on medication, if I ate anything, was diabetic or claustrophobic. I said I am healthy but am in a stifling seat where I can’t move. They suggested that my husband move to my seat and give me his seat in back, but he couldn’t fit in my seat. About one hour later, the other person in my row came to the back of the plane saying she had no room in her seat. We both ended up spending the entire flight in back and didn’t return to our seats until landing. At that time we found the overweight passenger lying across all three seats! The flight attendants said I should write a letter about the unfairness of paying for a seat I couldn’t sit in, that the overweight passenger far exceeded the one inch rule, and someone should have noticed beforehand. Because there were no empty seats, I had to stay in the back of the plane for three hours. I wrote to the head of customer relations of US Airways (I got her name from this website) and was called a few days later with a profuse apology and two vouchers for $200. I didn’t expect that!
I was recently on a Delta flight from Atlanta to Columbus, OH. I was seated in the middle seat in the emergency exit row. My husband was on one side and another gentleman on the other. All of us were small to average size, yet the seat felt very small. The arm rests were fixed. When I compared seat sizes using my hand-width I found it was definitely smaller. In addition, the seat cushion seemed to be about half the thickness. This was a relatively short flight but there was a long ground hold so by the time we got off my elbows were bruised and my tail bone was sore. Should passengers be paying full fares for these seats?
One of the reasons I asked to change jobs was that I was tired of the whole flying scene…the various indignities, including having to give up seat space to large passengers. Several participants in this forum like the Southwest policy of requiring a large person to buy a second seat at the gate. I agree, but nowadays, planes are completely full. What if there are no second seats available for purchase? Then what? Deny the heavy person boarding and force them to miss their flight?
I realize he posted some time ago, but to Art Johnson — 6′ 230 pounds is obese. To get to normal weight, you need to exercise down to 180 pounds.