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	<title>Comments on: AirTran, where is my refund?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/airtran-where-is-my-refund/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/airtran-where-is-my-refund/</link>
	<description>Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott&#039;s site.</description>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/airtran-where-is-my-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-9934</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The question is whether it was reasonable for the passenger to believe that the offer was made within the authority of the employee. So for example, if the cleaning lady offers to comp your week at a resort, you&#039;re SOL. The question  is &quot;is it reasonable to think a gate agent can make such a commitment?&quot; Whether or not the agent is actually so empowered is not relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question is whether it was reasonable for the passenger to believe that the offer was made within the authority of the employee. So for example, if the cleaning lady offers to comp your week at a resort, you&#8217;re SOL. The question  is &#8220;is it reasonable to think a gate agent can make such a commitment?&#8221; Whether or not the agent is actually so empowered is not relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Mekhong Kurt</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/airtran-where-is-my-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-9847</link>
		<dc:creator>Mekhong Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/airtran-where-is-my-refund/#comment-9847</guid>
		<description>Hi, Chris --

I would like to make one speculative observation about this situation.

You mention a gate supervisor typically doesn&#039;t have the authority to make an agreement that isn&#039;t part of the airline&#039;s rules.  I didn&#039;t know that, but since your info has always accorded with my own experiences, I take it for granted that&#039;s the case.

Given that&#039;s the case, then I&#039;m not at all sure a court would give any more credence to a commitment made in writing by a person not authorized to commit to such an obligation than it would to, say, a voice recording of the same agreement made verbally.  After all, if the person making a spoken promise isn&#039;t authorized to do so, he also isn&#039;t authorized to make the exact same promise in writing, is he?

I ran into a parallel situation here in Thailand, where relevant laws are rather similar to those in the U.S.  While my experience wasn&#039;t related to travel, it centered on precisely the same sort of situation as with a gate supervisor.

A now-defunct travel magazine had taken the text and photo of an article I had written and for which I had taken the picture, then used them in the magazine without even *notifying* me -- never mind asking permission (which I would have happily granted).  They didn&#039;t even give credit to me as the source of the article and picture.

I made an appointment with the senior person here and went to see him.  I wasn&#039;t interested in compensation, but in establishing a working relationship whereby he could use my stuff (crediting me) at will in exchange for a few lines of text in an advertisement each week.  I offered the alternative of three months&#039; advertising (also a few lines of text) as compensation for having used my materials should he not be interested in entering into a formal relationship.

He said he was glad of my offer, and, desperate for material, he happily agreed to the offer to use my material.  I asked him to send me an e-mail formally accepting the offer with all the appropriate details, which he did in under 24 hours.

The magazine was one of several focusing on cities in different countries in this part of the world, all privately held by a Filipino based in Manila, which figures into the story.

After about two months with none of my stuff being used and no ad for my website appearing in the magazine, I called the editor with whom I had spoken.  He was clearly uncomfortable, and he was evasive.

Determined to get to the bottom of the story, I went to his office, unannounced.  He was extremely apologetic, and said his boss in Manila had dismissed the arrangement because the guy&#039;s entire international operation was in severe financial straits and he was thinking about declaring bankruptcy, or simply closing up shop.

I e-mailed the owner, and offered use of my material with no compensation at all, not even an ad (which does, after all, cost money to print); I also included his editor&#039;s e-mail accepting my earlier offer.

For my trouble, all I got was an abusive reply that basically said the editor had not authority to commit to any arrangement involving advertising -- the same as a gate manager can&#039;t enter into out-of-rules one -- and challenging me to take it to court.

I was, of course, quite startled.  And incensed.  Though I had no intention to pursue the matter -- good move on my part, since the operation indeed *did* fold within a few weeks -- I did call my attorney here in Bangkok.

I focused on the e-mail I had received from the editor here, but my attorney told me there was no wriggle room: if the company&#039;s internal rules didn&#039;t allow him to enter into such an agreement, even a written commitment carried no weight.  He added that would hold even were the agreement written by hand in the presence of witnesses, signed by those witnesses as well as by the editor, and even if the entire affair was witnessed by a notary public then signed and stamped by him.

Because of that experience, I would guess -- while emphasizing I&#039;m NOT an attorney and this is NOT the U.S. -- the airline might well have a bullet-proof case not to go outside its own rules.

But, given the unpredictable nature of our legal system (I&#039;m American) . . . who knows???  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Chris &#8211;</p>
<p>I would like to make one speculative observation about this situation.</p>
<p>You mention a gate supervisor typically doesn&#8217;t have the authority to make an agreement that isn&#8217;t part of the airline&#8217;s rules.  I didn&#8217;t know that, but since your info has always accorded with my own experiences, I take it for granted that&#8217;s the case.</p>
<p>Given that&#8217;s the case, then I&#8217;m not at all sure a court would give any more credence to a commitment made in writing by a person not authorized to commit to such an obligation than it would to, say, a voice recording of the same agreement made verbally.  After all, if the person making a spoken promise isn&#8217;t authorized to do so, he also isn&#8217;t authorized to make the exact same promise in writing, is he?</p>
<p>I ran into a parallel situation here in Thailand, where relevant laws are rather similar to those in the U.S.  While my experience wasn&#8217;t related to travel, it centered on precisely the same sort of situation as with a gate supervisor.</p>
<p>A now-defunct travel magazine had taken the text and photo of an article I had written and for which I had taken the picture, then used them in the magazine without even *notifying* me &#8212; never mind asking permission (which I would have happily granted).  They didn&#8217;t even give credit to me as the source of the article and picture.</p>
<p>I made an appointment with the senior person here and went to see him.  I wasn&#8217;t interested in compensation, but in establishing a working relationship whereby he could use my stuff (crediting me) at will in exchange for a few lines of text in an advertisement each week.  I offered the alternative of three months&#8217; advertising (also a few lines of text) as compensation for having used my materials should he not be interested in entering into a formal relationship.</p>
<p>He said he was glad of my offer, and, desperate for material, he happily agreed to the offer to use my material.  I asked him to send me an e-mail formally accepting the offer with all the appropriate details, which he did in under 24 hours.</p>
<p>The magazine was one of several focusing on cities in different countries in this part of the world, all privately held by a Filipino based in Manila, which figures into the story.</p>
<p>After about two months with none of my stuff being used and no ad for my website appearing in the magazine, I called the editor with whom I had spoken.  He was clearly uncomfortable, and he was evasive.</p>
<p>Determined to get to the bottom of the story, I went to his office, unannounced.  He was extremely apologetic, and said his boss in Manila had dismissed the arrangement because the guy&#8217;s entire international operation was in severe financial straits and he was thinking about declaring bankruptcy, or simply closing up shop.</p>
<p>I e-mailed the owner, and offered use of my material with no compensation at all, not even an ad (which does, after all, cost money to print); I also included his editor&#8217;s e-mail accepting my earlier offer.</p>
<p>For my trouble, all I got was an abusive reply that basically said the editor had not authority to commit to any arrangement involving advertising &#8212; the same as a gate manager can&#8217;t enter into out-of-rules one &#8212; and challenging me to take it to court.</p>
<p>I was, of course, quite startled.  And incensed.  Though I had no intention to pursue the matter &#8212; good move on my part, since the operation indeed *did* fold within a few weeks &#8212; I did call my attorney here in Bangkok.</p>
<p>I focused on the e-mail I had received from the editor here, but my attorney told me there was no wriggle room: if the company&#8217;s internal rules didn&#8217;t allow him to enter into such an agreement, even a written commitment carried no weight.  He added that would hold even were the agreement written by hand in the presence of witnesses, signed by those witnesses as well as by the editor, and even if the entire affair was witnessed by a notary public then signed and stamped by him.</p>
<p>Because of that experience, I would guess &#8212; while emphasizing I&#8217;m NOT an attorney and this is NOT the U.S. &#8212; the airline might well have a bullet-proof case not to go outside its own rules.</p>
<p>But, given the unpredictable nature of our legal system (I&#8217;m American) . . . who knows???  :-)</p>
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