Marvin Doyle is ready to put the kibosh on kids in restaurants.
That’s because the ad executive from Peoria, Ill., like countless other travelers, has had one too many run-ins with bad bambinos while dining out. Once at an Italian restaurant, a child seated in the next booth coughed into his pizza. Another time, a crawling baby almost tripped a waitress who was carrying a tray of hot meals.
But perhaps the worst was the game of pickup baseball he witnessed recently on a road trip. “An infant in its high chair was throwing everything Mom put on the tray,” he says. “Green beans, peas, mashed potatoes were going well beyond their area. One man resorted to covering his coffee with his hand. A woman at another table caught several bits in her hair – she did not realize it until the next time she brushed her hair.”
Some states have banned smoking in restaurants. What’s next – kids? These days, that could mean keeping out a lot of families.
According to the National Restaurant Association, more people than ever are dining out with their kids. The growth is especially dramatic at casual restaurants, where orders by parties with children were up 7 percent in 1997.
The surge in family dining hasn’t been a particularly positive experience for everyone. Take the experience of reader Lenora Kenwolf. On a recent trip to Phoenix, she found herself sitting next to a party with three “unruly children.”
“The older two children were bad enough with their screaming and extremely loud talking, but the 3-year-old was unbearable,” she recalls. “She ran around our table in circles, screaming at the top of her lungs while wearing a diaper which was so dirty that it was starting to sag.”
The toddler “slapped the back of our legs, pinched us and attempted to take food off of our plates. She then ran into the kitchen and behind the bar where a very busy bartender yelled at her in Chinese. The staff of the restaurant kept chasing her out of the kitchen until the manager came out and spoke to the parents,” Kenwolf says.
I wondered what contrarian sociologist Jerry Clavner had to say on the issue of kids in restaurants. Clavner, you’ll remember, likened kids on planes to Chihuahuas with diarrhea in a previous column.
“When I go into a restaurant and the hostess or maitre d asks me whether I want smoking or non-smoking, I ask for the no children section,” he told me. “I am not a curmudgeon, but I do believe that there is a time and place for everything, and quality restaurants in the evening are neither the time and place for children.”
Marya Charles Alexander, editor of the newsletter “Solo Dining Savvy” agrees that kids should stay out of some restaurants.
But then again, so should some parents. “Some parents don’t take the time nor have the interest to educate their kids in the niceties and pleasures of dining out,” she says. “They fail to start small and with the basics-instructing kids in sitting reasonably still, keeping food reasonably on their plates and keeping hands and voices reasonably to themselves.”
So what’s the solution? Send the rowdy juveniles to the basement? Punish their parents by blacklisting them?
I tend to side with National Restaurant Association spokeswoman Karen Kraushaar, who points out that “there’s no data out there that suggests the presence of children in restaurants is hazardous to your health.”
And I concur with folks like UCLA psychiatrist Mark Goulston, author of Get Out of Your Own Way: Overcoming Self-Defeating Behavior and an expert on this subject in his own right (he has three children). He thinks it’s up to patrons to plan ahead in case they encounter bad kids in a restaurant.
“Anticipate the cost of a someone else’s child ruining your meal,” he says. In addition to the common-sense steps, such as asking for another table or talking to the parents, he suggests that diners carry “little trinkets, toys or candies” with them to entice children to pipe down. “You’ll win over the parent and the kid,” he says.
For the rest of us, there’s always takeout.
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{ 10 comments… read them below or add one }
Being the parent of 2 kids (now 15 and 17), I’ve always maintained that most kids learn by example. My husband and I started taking our kids out to restaurants at an early age, and made it a point to never allow bad behavior of any kind in public, with the consequences being swift and immediate. The first time my daughter became unruly in a restaurant (at age 4), without saying a word I picked her up and took her outside. After 5 minutes of silence and “The Look”, she realized this was not a game and that if she wanted to return to the table, she’d have to curb her bad behavior. She’s never misbehaved since.
Well…I AM a curmudgeon…I hate kids and I want nothing to do with them! I’m in my 40s, married and living life just fine, thank you with out kids.
I had an experience at a restaruant that has caused me to ALWAYS ask for a no-children seating.
My wife and I were enjoying a late dining experience at a local chain restaurant. It was well after 9:30 PM on a week night and we were rather confident that parents with young children would not be at this restaurant at this late time…
Unfortunatly, this was not to be our luck.
We were seated across the aisle from a family that had not just one, but two children under the age of 3!
One was well behaved and only periodically pierced the air with a high-pitch shreek that can only be intended as a guidance beacon for flying bats…
the other child was a problem. It would not stop crying…this incessant crying went on for 15 minutes, intersperced with fists full of macaroni and cheese it was shoving into it’s mouth.
The parents were basically ignoring this menace and calmly eating their dinner….it was very difficult for me and my wife to eat with this noise…
While attempting to eat, this screaming banshee of a child stops, gurgles and proceeds to projectile vomit the last several days of food (or so it seemed) across the aisle and onto my shoes and the legs of our table…
Needless to say, the dinner for use was ruined…We promptly called a waitress and told her that we have lost our appetite and that we would like to speak to a manager…The parents are looking appologetic, but that’s not a lot of help after the fact.
After telling the manager that we weren’t paying for dinner, he agreed and we went home still hungry, but not in an eating mood…
Look…My decision is to NOT have kids…if you make that desicion to have kids, then it’s your responsibility, not mine.
Leave your child in my presence unattended and I can be held responsible for what your child learns around me!
I’m in total agreement that restaurants should segregate families in specific aras and attempt to seat customers who request “no-children” seating, just that.
Well-behaved children (and what parent doesn’t think its child(ren) belong(s) in that category would be welcome anywhere. But children under a certain age CANNOT be expected to behave like little adults and not disturb the dining experiences of others.
I have refused seating in restaurants near families with infants and have endured the resulting insulting remarks about my behavior. Better words thrown at me than some child’s food!
UCLA psychiatrist Mark Goulston must be out of his mind to suggest we carry trinkets or candies with us to entice other people’s kids. If something happens to the kids because of our candies or trinkets (or even if it’s not ours but they think it is), they will sue our pants off. Bad idea!
It’s all in the parenting. I agree with Linda above.
Our kids were in restaurants at an early age, and we taught them how to behave properly. Once, when they were about 7 and 4, we went to an Outback restaurant where they said it would be a 45-minute wait. All of the chairs were taken in the waiting area, so my kids proceeded to sit on the floor, out of the way, and use the crayons and kids’ menus to stay occupied. Time went by and we were called to our table.
During our meal, an elderly couple came up to us and said they were very impressed with our childrens’ behavior. When they first heard it was a 45-minute wait, they thought, “Geez – the kids will be a pain.” But they were pleasantly surprised that our kids were so good, and wanted to let us know.
On a cruise we took a couple of years ago, my family of four was at our own table. Directly across from us were three families traveling together – the adults sat at one big table, and the kids sat at another big table. I’d say there were about eight kids, but you never would have known it. They were extremely well-behaved, the bar waiter did a magic trick for them each night, and we had very pleasant meals. I told the parents that we were impressed with their kids’ behavior.
I understand not wanting misbehaving kids around – I’ve seen that too, but let’s put the blame where it belongs – rotten parents. Let’s not throw out every kid because some parents lack normal common sense.
I do not care for the kids/no-kids idea, as it punishes well-behaved children who have grown up knowing how to dine in public (and in private, for that matter :)).
The one time our daughter acted up in a restaurant, she was an infant. And my husband immediately took her out to the car while I finished my wine and paid the bill. It was *our* responsibility to ensure that others were not disturbed by her.
When the children misbehave, I believe the restaurant should bring the family’s meals out in to-go containers and usher them to the door. There is no excuse for ruining a meal for all of the other patrons!
I live near Tampa, Florida, an hour southwest of Walt Disney World. I went to a fine dining establishment onboard the Disney Wonder called Palo (also found on the Disney Magic as well) during my summer vacation with my mother. That restaurant welcomes guests 18 and older (I was 19 when I first dined there).
As a few of you know, almost two years ago, the Walt Disney World Resort placed an age-related red tape on the stellar (as in five-diamond per the AAA rating) on the most elegant of all the 97 restaurants – Victoria & Albert’s at the Grand Floridian Resort and Spa. To quote from the webpage, diners like me “ages 10 and above are invited to dine at this establishment.”
As Mitch Miller said, “All Smiles -” at least for someone, be it a concerned manager or a Walt Disney World Cast Member team, who took action by installing a “no kids” place!
Child or adult, I don’t want to be seated anywhere near a person that doesn’t have enough common sense to chew with their mouth shut.
Rather than a kid/no-kid section, there should be a manners/no-manners section, with the cud-chewers placed out-back with the dumpsters and smokers.
I’m torn on this subject. I think if parents can keep control of they’re children and the children can behave themselves for the meal/ flight/ etc. then they should be welcome. however if the child is unruly, the parents ignoring it, and its disrupting other poeple around them, they should be asked to leave. Its common decency. My child is normally very well behaved and likes to make people around her smile, however If she gets cranky, or is disrupting other people, we take our food home and leave so that the other poeple who are also paying to have a nice dinner can enjoy they’re dinner without poeple screaming.
and dont forget that 90% of the time. its not the children who are causing the issue, its parents. children learn by example. so when you have a child screaming, carrying on and throwing tantrums in your restaurant. you should probably be looking at the parents accompaning them.
also, yes i’m bored which is whyn i’m replying to a 10 year old post :D
my advice is firstly avoid restaurants that advertise family style; or something in the order of family restaurants; secondly never approach the parents bad idea ;I know from experience that could be dangerous especially if the parent has had to much to drink and decides he wants to assault you; go right to the hostess and demand another table ; if no satisfaction leave ; no matter how great the food is not worth the aggravation period. If on a cruise demand a table child free; sorry Ro nda not intersted in your cute child that delights people; I came here to enjoy the food and my companion ; not your kid.