Daddy can’t fly: Parents who shouldn’t be allowed on a plane

April 10, 2010

During a recent 2 1/2-hour flight from Portland, Maine, to Charlotte, N.C., Tom Meador heard nothing but crying.

“The baby in the back row screamed bloody murder,” he remembers. “Its mother did everything she could think of to quiet the baby. She actually was dripping with sweat because you could tell she worried about what it was doing to the other passengers. I think she had reason to worry, too, because there were some very sour fellow passengers.”

The problem is as old as air travel itself: Adults seated next to misbehaving kids while confined to a pressurized aluminum tube. But it seemed like until now, at least, we knew whose side the parents were on. Like the mom on Meador’s flight, they did everything they could to keep their offspring from driving the rest of the passengers quietly mad.

Today, you can’t be so sure.

Take Pamela Root, who recently became the poster child for permissive parents after she and her two-year-old son were kicked off a Southwest Airlines flight. Apparently the child’s demands (“Go! Plane! Go!” and “I want Daddy!”) were so loud that the in-flight announcements couldn’t be heard by the other passengers. Southwest apologized for ejecting them and offered Root a $300 voucher, incurring the wrath of the commenting classes.

Have parents stopped caring?

“Today’s parents have a different view of children’s behavior,” says Renee Mosiman, a marriage and family therapist and co-author of “The Smarter Preschooler: Unlocking Your Child’s Intellectual Potential.” “Parents are more permissive, which can result in children who are more unruly in public, especially during plane travel.”

I’ve given this some thought after an earlier column in which I wondered if children should be banned from flying. Halfway through the story, I conceded that no discussion of banning kids would be complete without the possibility of getting rid of bad parents, too.

I can’t pretend to know what separates a good mom or dad from a bad one. But when it comes to air travel, there are a few telltale signs that you’re dealing with parental incompetence. Here they are:

‘My child can do no wrong.’
There’s a small group of parents that believes its kids walk on water. On the ground, they are free to indulge their offspring to their heart’s content. But on a plane, it doesn’t quite work.

Michael Liebmann, a legal secretary who lives in Atlanta, remembers flying from Tel Aviv to Rome, where he was seated next to a child, “who started screaming the moment we took off.” After a while, he politely asked its mother to do something. “She yelled at me that her ‘perfect child’ could scream as much and as long as it wanted to,” he says. “No amount of niceness was able to accomplish anything.”

I have some experience with parents who turn a blind eye to their kids’ shortcomings: I am related to a few of them. They shouldn’t allow these kinds of parents to buy airline tickets — regardless of their kids’ ages.

‘I don’t care if my child misbehaves.’
What’s worse than parents who are oblivious to the annoying nature of their children? A parent who isn’t.

Gary Zeune, a professional speaker based in Powell, Ohio, once sat between two toddlers — one in the row behind him, the other in the row in front of him — who performed an exquisite form of torture. “The kid in front was standing and let out a scream,” he recalls. “The one behind me replied with a scream.” After about six of these back-and-forth screams, it became clear to Zeune that the moms were unable to control their kids.

“Everyone was livid,” he told me. So he stood up and ordered the children to be quiet. And after that, they were.

Parents who won’t step up to the plate to control their kids ought to be shown the cabin door.

‘I can’t control my offspring.’
This is the most benign version of incompetent parenting. I know, because I’ve been one in the past.

I thought I could keep my little ones (I have three) occupied on the plane. Then the doors closed and suddenly I was in charge of three wild children who refused to sit in their seats, demanded food and yelled at one another. After that, I grounded my family from flying for a while.

Nina Boal, a computer programmer who lives in Columbia, Md., remembers a flight from Tokyo to Detroit, where she was seated next to “an inconsolably screaming kid.” “No matter what the parents did, the kid wouldn’t stop screaming and crying,” she says. “This was an 11-hour flight.”

Parents who lose control of their offspring on a plane can be forgiven the first time it happens. But if they know they have a problem, and they continue flying, they’re no better than the ones who can’t, or won’t, do anything about it.

Oh, one more thing: This is bound to get worse.

“Today’s parents think that their little darlings have the right to scream, pound on the backs of chairs, hit passengers on the head and do whatever else amuses them,” says psychiatrist Carole Lieberman. “This comes from parents feeling entitled and being too distracted by their own fears, worries, computer work, movies, and so on. They think of the flight attendants as their own personal babysitters.”

Airlines already blacklist passengers for all sorts of reasons, from bad behavior to breaking their ticket rules.

Perhaps they should add inept parents to the list.

  • freed

    It isn’t the parents who are truly trying to keep their offspring under control that bother me. I feel a good bit of empathy for those whose kids are just inconsolable during a flight, and if I’m near them, I’ll usually offer to help if I can. Sometimes kids are just having a crappy day, and the parents haven’t another alternative than to travel on that particular day. I think if other passengers see that they are trying, it’s much easier to cut them a break. It’s the clueless or entitled parents that drive me batty. On a recent Frontier flight, I was surprised to feel a little hand patting the back of my leg, and even more surprised to look down and see a little head pop up from under my seat. I stood up and turned around to find the mom immersed in her laptop. She was most surprised to see her child now standing up also – in MY seat – and looking back at mom. She didn’t even have to grace to apologize, just yelled at the child who then proceeded to wail loudly and kick the back of my seat for the rest of the flight.

  • Carver

    @freed

    Absolutely right. Parents who are trying their best to control their children are NOT in the same class as parents who won’t try. Sometimes a parent has to fly and there simply isn’t another option. But if the parent is trying to control the situation, it becomes much easier to tolerate.

  • LeeAnne

    I agree that it makes a huge difference if the parents are at least making an effort to control their child. If you can see that a parent is doing their best to deal with the situation, at least that reduces the annoyance factor somewhat. But when a parent is doing nothing to stop their badly-behaving child, that DOUBLES the annoyance factor!

    Passengers do need to display some empathy to parents. Parents have a right to travel with kids – that is simply a fact that all pressurized-tube-dwellers must accept. And parents need to accept that they have an obligation to ensure that their kids cause a minimum of disturbance to others. But fellow passengers need to pay attention to their own behavior, and not let their irritation at being forced to share the air with kids make the situation worse.

    I’ve been that parent of an inconsolable child. I was on a JFK-LAX flight once when my son was small. About half-way through the flight he started feeling warm, and crying uncontrollably. OBVIOUSLY I wouldn’t have brought him on the flight if I’d known he was going to become ill, but there I was, with 3 hours left in the air, so I had to deal with it. Most of my neighboring passengers were completely empathetic, and even helpful. But this one woman a couple rows back kept making nasty comments, loudly, to her seat mate. I finally had had enough. I stood up and shouted at her that her ugly attitude was not helping things, and if she would just SHUT UP I might be able to focus on handling the situation. I said a few other choice things to her as well. Some of the nearby passengers actually clapped!

    But I’ve also be at the other end. I was on an overnight transatlantic once, and a woman with a lap-child was in the seat directly behind me, in a full row. She didn’t even bother to buy the kid a seat, and he looked way too old for lap-child status. He spent the entire time rythmically kicking the back of my seat – not accidentally bumping it, but full-on KICK – KICK – KICK. This went on for hours! I tried everything – asking nicely, begging, pleading, getting angry. The mom just completely ignored me, and did nothing. I finally went to the flight attendants, and a huge bruhaha ensued – she had the nerve to deny everything, until some other passengers confirmed it. They finally moved her to a back center row, which ticked her off but good, and left me in my comfy window seat to sleep the rest of the way.

    THOSE are the types of parents who shouldn’t even be allowed to fly! Problem is, there’s no way to tell which ones are which until they’re on the plane, is there? ;-)

    The reality is that there is no real solution to this ubiquitous travel problem. There’s nothing that airlines, or parents, can do to magically stop kids from being kids. The key is that we must pay attention to our own behavior. If you’re a parent, DO YOUR BEST to control your child, always keeping in mind that you have an obligation to prevent your kid from disturbing others, to the best of your ability. If you’re a passenger, recognize that families have a right to travel too, and as long as the parents are doing their best, show some empathy (and humanity). And if they’re not doing their best, seek help from the crew.

  • http://www.sanibel-rentals.net Samba

    When weary of the the little boy behind him kicking his seat repeatedly, my husband nicely turned around and asked him to stop. As we exited the plane, the man (not the child’s father) who had been seated next to the child started a verbal fight with my husband who he was accusing of “bullying” the little boy. Fortunately the man’s wife had some control over him (he clearly wanted more than a verbal confrontation) as my husband was not taking kindly to this fellow’s comments. The overboard attitude— in this country particularly— when it comes to child rearing has created monsters out of children, parents and, in this instance, total strangers who are kid-centric, skirting on irrational. Fortunately, we are able to drive down to our properties on Sanibel Island and can circumvent the discomfort of air travel, unruly kids and over-protective adults.

  • http://http/aol barbie45

    Lee Anne, no has a right to fly. It is a privilege believe it or not. The southwest flight attendant who ejected the infant and his mother was very brave in doing so. The flight attendants did their best to comfort the child. to no avail. The legally required flight announcement could not be heard over the infant’s screaming. That flight attendant backed by her captain was a very brave person considering the wrath she probably incurred among several passengers. The mother received three hundred dollars plus her flight on a later plane. If you know your child suffers from attention deficit disorder or willingly know that your child is difficult to control do not fly period. I wonder why people assume certain things are right. There is nothing in our constitution that says flying is a right.

  • Matt

    The uncaring parent is terrible. I’ve had to fly several times with our younger than one year old twins. My wife and I worked really hard to keep them entertained. The people around us saw how hard we were working and they obviously appreciated it, even smiling and talking to our babies (and our two older children). Their attitudes made our flight even nicer and more easily endured.

    We fly only when we have to. Cost and inconvenience are our usual reasons for not flying more often. These last two flights were to 1) a family reunion, 4hr flight away, and 2) my mother-in-law’s funeral. We wondered if we were right in dragging our twins on such a long flight, but then when my mother-in-law passed away we sure were glad we were able to spend the family reunion with her.

    Hopefully parents will all care how their children are impacting those around them. If they do and if they show that effort then when the inevitable breakdown/tantrum/sickness happens it’s much more endurable by everyone.

  • KF

    I think we need to keep in mind everyone’s tolerances for behavior are a little different. On a recent flight I was seated next to a pair of parents who had a lap child that was pretty close to the two year mark. Little girl was fascinated by everything, particularly the nozzles to control the air flow – she kept wanting to adjust them and wanted to see what was on my laptop. A little annoying yes, but she was also completely silent, and I commented ot the parents they had a budding engineer. Behavior like that I can put up with, since the child didn’t really know better and I didn’t think it disturbed me that much. The six year old on another flight who ran screaming up and down the aisles is a whole other story, as the a child that age should know better (and the parents should have done something). The dirty looks the parents got when a lot of us were on the same return flight spoke volumes.

  • LeeAnne

    Oh for god’s sake Barbie, what are you blathering on about now? And why am I not surprised that you are in here spouting your typical anti-kid and anti-parent crap?

    Families with children have just as much right (and yes, I mean RIGHT) to travel by air as do you, and anyone else for that matter. It’s a figure of speech I’m using, dear, not a legal term. I don’t know why you’re bringing up the constitution – not all rights come directly from that document, so that’s just more of your classic nonsense. Some concepts of “rights” are just basic common sense – something you seem to be sorely lacking. If parents follow the airline’s mandates – paying the required airfare, following the rules, etc, they have just as much “right” as you do to fly. As long as we follow the rules, nobody has a “right” to tell me we can’t – certainly not you. If you don’t want to encounter children, I urge you to stay home.

    As for the Southwest incident, not sure why you’re mentioning that to me. I didn’t mention it in my post, and frankly I have nothing to say about it. So please don’t direct your nonsense to me.

    By the way, I’m pretty sure now we’ve met. Wasn’t that you in the row behind me, spouting ugly comments because my child was crying? Sounds like you, anyway.

  • Ryan

    I think parents should fly with duct tape. If your kid can’t sit still or keep quiet, apply tape.

    Problem solved.

    Yes, I’m serious.

    Otherwise, keep your kids off my plane and especially out of first class.

  • Josh

    A discussion of “banning” children would not be complete without a discussion of “banning” adults. I have flown well over 500 individual flights over 600,000 miles and have always found the obnoxious adults far worse then any child. I have had screaming kids sitting next to me. I have had the seat kickers behind me. They all pale in comparison to the aggressive drunk (the one who already had five or six in the airport bar) or the obnoxious jerk who I have sat next to. I was on an international flight seated in an aisle next to two young women (20′s I would estimate). Midway through the flight one of them picked up a guy and proceeded to have quite a good time with him in her seat. Not what I was looking for on my flight home.

    For anyone who travels and has a problem with kids, I would recommend the Bose QuietComfort 15 headphones. They block out the sounds around you quite well.

  • http://http/aol.com barbie45

    Lee anne., Your post was a personal insult to me. You should havce framed it your post etc.Personally I believe that it is a wrong for a parent who knows his child has attention deficit disorder, or any severe emotional problems to fly. Find alternative transportation. I also believe that it is wrong to subject an infant for a long period of time in an enviornment which is not sanitary. I am curious as to what you do if the passenger near you had a terrible cold and was coughing or vomitting and you had an infant with you. People have admitted on this blog that they would fly no matter what. No I have not traveled recently as I am enjoying the weather in Florida.Common sense is not the law.

  • http://http/aol.com barbie45

    Ryan, I could not have posted it better than you. I agree.

  • Carver

    @Ryan

    “Otherwise, keep your kids off my plane”
    ————————————————————————————

    I was not aware that you owned a plane. Parents should definitely keep their children off any plane that you own.

  • LeeAnne

    @Ryan – spoken like a true kid-hater. Someday, if you’re lucky enough to actually find someone to reproduce with you, trust me, you’ll feel differently. But since that doesn’t seem to have happened for you….if you really are incapable of dealing with the fact that children exist in the world (and are a necessary precurser to human adults), then, like I told barbie (another notorious child-hater), I would urge you to stay home. By the way, if it’s really your plane, why are you letting kids on it to begin with? OH wait…I get it…it’s NOT really your plane. You are just one of those obnoxious people who think that the world is here for YOUR comfort and convenience, and everyone should be tiptoeing around YOU, and YOU are the only one who has any rights. Now it makes sense.

    Write back when you actually have enough money to have your own plane. In the meantime, accept that you are just another shmoe on the plane like everyone else, invest in a set of earplugs, and please keep your duct tape to yourself.

    @Josh – I couldn’t agree more. The kid kicking my chair almost all the way across the Atlantic wasn’t half as annoying as some of the adults I’ve flown next to. And I’ve heard stories from other travelers that have made my toes curl. I remember one story of a poor man with a dark complexion who was minding his own business on a plane when some whacked-out woman took the seat next to him (which wasn’t her assigned seat) spilled her soda all over him, and when he asked the flight attendant to please move her back to her assigned seat (presumably so he could remain DRY for the remainder of the flight), the woman got so ticked off that she loudly told another passenger that he was Al Qaeda! And then she got all upset when she was given a “talking to” by the air marshall (or airport security – can’t remember which it was…) Anyway, yeah, I agree with you! I would rather be in plane full of screaming infants than with someone like that. ;-)

    I would never consider flying without earplugs. Removes the issue of crying babies from the equation completely. (Although I admit they didn’t do much to help with the kid kicking the back of my seat!)

  • LeeAnne

    barbie – BAHAHAHA!!! You and Ryan are clearly in the same category – people who have been denied the opportunity to reproduce, so you hate anyone who has, and have zero concept of what parenting is. Maybe you two should meet? (That’s a scary thought! ;-))

    And again, what is this nonsense you are spouting about attention deficit and severe emotional problems? Where is that coming from? Wait…I think I get it…you have the completely absurd (albeit hilarious) mistaken impression that kids who cry and/or behave badly must have ADD or be emotionally disturbed! That is a riot. Do you really not have ANY exposure to parents and/or kids? Wow. What a bizarre concept.

    By the way, not all kids who fly are “infants” (another hilarious assumption). And while parents do need to take precautions with newborns, once they’re past that stage, there is no reason NOT to take them on a plane. Kids are going to encounter germs wherever they go in life – the grocery store, school, the park. Planes are no more dangerous for children than anywhere else. In fact, some parenting experts feel it’s a mistake to attempt to insulate your kids from the common germs they will encounter in life. Kids NEED to encounter these germs so their bodies can develop immunities etc. But wait…I forgot…you have no exposure to kids in your life, and know absolutely nothing about parenting, so these concepts are, I’m sure, completely beyond your understanding.

    As I’ve told you before, please leave the parenting decisions to us parents. And, while I know it’s hard for you, you have GOT to accept that your repeated kid-hating posts in this blog are simply not going to stop parents from taking their kids on airplanes. All they do is make you look hateful and foolish.

  • Thomas

    Bring back smoking sections and a seperate section for children in the back of the plane. PROBLEM SOLVED!

  • LeeAnne

    @Thomas – while the smoking section comment is utter nonsense (lung cancer anyone?), I actually would have no issues with having a “children’s section” at the on the plane – although I think it should be at the front, so they can board last and exit first. Less actual time on the plane, the better for everyone, right? I can’t see anything objectionable about an airline requirement that parents traveling with small children must sit in the front. Then, adults who are emotionally incapable of encountering small humans could book closest to the back, knowing they’d be as far from them as possible. And parents dealing with cranky kids would, presumably, have other parents around them who would at least have a a basic concept of what actual human children are like, and be empathetic to what they are dealing with. And they’d also be less likely to be stuck near people like barbie and Ryan who might make their lives all the MORE difficult with their hateful attitudes. Works for me!

  • Meg

    My aunt flew from the east coast to Italy on a flight with 10, 8 and 6 year old brothers sitting together in a row. They were out of control and fighting with each other. The parents were seated in first class! The FA called the mother back and told her the boys would be separated. Instead of moving one the of the boys forward, and a parent sitting with the remaining two, the mother shrugged and returned to first class. They boys were silent for the rest of the trip, sitting alone next to strangers. I just don’t understand parents like that.

  • Bill

    I think Chris’s article said it quite well. I have seen the various scenarios played out on planes a lot before.

    We should do a poll. Would you rather be on a plane with:
    A. Bad kids.
    B. Bad parents.
    C. Bad kids and bad parents.
    D. Stuck in a middle seat between Barbie and Lee-Anne.

    Actually, I was able to get an upgrade to executive first going to London and this family had also upgraded to exectutive first. They had three whiny kids, and it was obviously bad parenting. The stewardess (they don’t make it to air hostess unless they are sensible) decided that it was against human rights legislation to put ‘em in the back – she said they paid to be up front. I told her, “so did everyone else”.

    They should have noise standards in each class and anyone who doesn’t abide by them should be taken care of – no fly list, back of the bus, whatever works.

  • sue

    I have found that most kids behave just fine on an airplane – it is that small percentage that are awful that stick with you. And by the way, by behave just fine, I mean that there is sometimes some crying, some accidental seat kicking – I don’t expect any kid to sit quietly for several hours with no problems.

    One experience I did have though, was with a nice little girl who was traveling with her grandma across the aisle on my flight from Ireland to the US. She was not a terror, but her grandma was really over-indulgent and clearly thought her granddaughter was the center of the planet. I was already a little miserable as I was seated next to the bathroom, but I was making the best of it. This little girl started socializing up and down the aisle with other passengers, while her grandma shopped the duty free with the flight attendant and looked on. When the girl tried to engage me, I made a point of not returning the attention. I don’t hate kids and I didn’t have any real problem with this child, but I knew that the only way I was going to survive this flight would be to check out, either sleeping or watching inflight movies, and I didn’t want to encourage this girl to befriend me. She did befriend some others around me, who clearly grew tired of her as the long flight progressed. This is a tactic I have used in other situations….cute kids have no problem making friends, and so I find it easy to decide not to be one of them.

  • Michelle

    Wow…….from reading some of these comments I wouldn’t have known some of you were adults ;)

    Now, I don’t have children yet, but here are my observations and opinions. Note: when I speak of a child I’m not including infants.

    I think it’s the parent’s responsibility to teach their children and lead by example how to act on a flight. I flew as a kid (a few times on long flights across the Atlantic) along with my siblings and we never acted like complete fools. My sister and brother both have ADHD and never once had any fits on planes. It’s because my parent’s taught us how we should act and which behaviors would be rewarded and which ones would be punished upon arrival of the destination. Sure we would get antsy or bored on the longer flights, but my mom always came prepared with snacks, games, activities, etc to keep us occupied. My god if we ever acted up on a flight (which never happened) we would of had it coming to us when we landed!!

    Yes, there are some children who can be very difficult to control, but I believe if the parent has good techniques and knows who their child is (or what they are capable of) then prepare for the worst. We all have bad days, but it’s how you deal with it that matters. I can be more sympathetic/tolerant to the parent who is trying everything to help/assist their child than the one ignoring them.

  • http://www.imageswritten.biz Susan

    I have two small children and my husband is a pilot. My kiddos have more stamps in their passports than many adults I know. That said, some adults just do not understand that kids will be kids, even in the air or whilst stranded on the ground for 3 plus hours.

    We were once stuck in Memphis and an hour into the wait, my youngest was getting upset. The “gentleman” in front of us was also setting a horrible example. He would yell into his cell phone, slam his hand against the seat or bulkhead area. He paged the flight crew more than once.

    So after an hour of that he decided to turn his rage on me and my little fellow. My little fellow was seated with his seat belt on and we were playing with the assortment of toys we had and munching on jelly beans – one at a time… (hint gummy candy is really helpful for air travel. I swear by it.)

    My little fellow had investigated the tray table a few times, but then we had satisfied his curiosity and we were counting the trucks and suitcases, when this man stood up and yelled us – I mean yelled.

    I politely told him he could always ask to be reseated if he was opposed to children, but that we had a right to talk quietly. I also offered him a jelly bean…

    Bonus of being a pilot’s wife – you know your aircraft and because we had made three trips to the bathroom already, I knew the only seat available was next to the bathroom.

    I also knew the flight crew… our flight attendant was happy to re-seat this gentleman – and for the duration of the wait and then the flight – he had the pleasure of being elbowed by ever Tom, Nancy, and Peter, who went to the bathroom.

    Mayhap he should have taken the jelly bean I offered him.

    Parents need to travel prepared, have your bag organized and I find “new” toys help. Have snacks and have wipes and have a special travel candy or treat.

    Adult travelers need to bear in mind, traveling is stressful, if they are feeling antsy or bored, chances are the little people are also.

    I also find the two seat by two seat configuration or the two and one very challenging for me as a quasi – single mama. More than once I have had to have my daughter seated next to a stranger, becasue I needed to sit with the little fellow.

    Not up for sitting next to child, ask to be reseated or buy the extra seat, to ensure you can sit alone…

    Parent’s who fail to prepare… should be deplaned… Parents who are struggling but prepared might benefit from a modicum of kindness. Trust me, they are having about as much fun as you are and unlike in restaurant, you cannot step out for some fresh air.

    And the people who get weird-ed out by a quietly nursing baby – Hello people, a nursing baby is a quiet baby.

  • eCurmudgeon

    I’ve long argued for a outright ban on airline passengers under sixteen years of age. This article, if anything, confirms the wisdom of taking such a position…

  • Amanda

    I am all for grounding adults who misbehave.. they know better! Children are not in the same category. Parents who do nothing while their kids misbehave.. see how I feel about adults who misbehave they know better!

    My husband and I live in Asia and frequently travel back to the states. We a child under 1 and we know how to work with her (notice I did not say control as that is impossible!) We typically sit in Business Class and have had many rude individual encounters before the flight. After the 13+ hours on one of those flights the man who was terribly rude to us and most everyone around him walked past us and said.. “gee uh, I forgot there was even a kid up here. What did you do? Drug her?” Nope, we brought enough food and games to entertain her.

    Not all children and parents are bad when it comes to flying. NOW with that said I did travel with my child on a short flight within the states and she was inconsolable. She cried (turns out later she had gas…) I did everything in my power. We ended up in one of the lavs for most of the flight. I had a few kind ladies on the plane offer to try to console her.. nothing worked. We had a few mean stares (Lee Ann were you on my flight?) but most people gave the “this sucks, but at least you’re trying” look. I apologized to everyone and that was all I could do. No joke about 20 minutes after we landed my child let out the loudest longest toot and then she stopped crying. HA. All I could do was laugh (and change my cloths after all of the sweating I had done on the place worrying about the other passengers!)

    Not all parents and children are bad. It is the few who make it bad for the rest of us. If you travel frequently (like my father does) perhaps try carrying something small just in case you do get stuck next to a child… say pretzels or maybe a deck of cards. At least you can make friends with them!

  • SirWired

    Two words: “cough syrup”. (Preferably the prescription kind with mild narcotics in it.)

    :-)

  • http://http/aol.com barbie45

    Right onThomas. I would post the same.

  • http://http/aol.com barbie45

    LeeAnne, please refrain your attacks from being personal. Several posters have admonished you that you are crossing a fine line. Obviously not every obnoxious child suffers from a severe emotional problem. Also many have attention disorder. I am suggesting that parents who know thir child suffers some from severe emotional problems think twice about bringing them on a plane. Honestly some posts are just tongue and cheek. Lighten up. Airlines are concerned about profit, and security, They are not going to listen to our list of wishes.

  • Thomas

    @LeeAnne,

    As a lifetime AA Platinum Member, Delta Diamond Member, etc., acquiring over 6M FF miles, I believe I have seen pretty much everything on a plane. Bad kids, bad parents, bad flight crews. For those of you too young to remember, they used to have a smoking section in the rear of the plane. All I’m saying is that if the airlines used to be able to reserve this section for smokers, why not for children? They could all play together and allow the rest of us that have to work do so without interuption. The front of the plane? NO way! I’m in first/business and need my own space, thank you very much!

  • http://http/aol barbie45

    Bill I would choose c. The reasons are the following; I do not tend to make personal attacks on complete strangers,I do not get involved in situations which do not personally involve me. I tend to be quite content to read a good book and not engage in conservations except the person I am traveling with. I by reading her posts get the impression that she tries to be a good mother and her children are well- behaved. Remember she is a complete stranger to me.However. if she started getting ino arguments with flight attendants over a disputewith a passenger, which I have the feeling she might well that is a different story entirely.

  • Greg

    My million dollar idea: A tv news show where Barbie and LeAnn debate the latest headlines. It would be so fun to watch!!! I do wonder though if Barbie can actually speak in complete sentences, or if she just cannot type them.

    Honesly Barbie, why are you here? I read all of your posts, and I can’t for the life of me figure it out. Your comments are embarassing, and I still can’t figure out why Chris has not banned you yet. Your idea that no one has the right to fly is insane. What if one day the airlines just said that anyone who is against children flying on planes were banned from flying? Apparently you believe that no one has a right to fly, so you wouldn’t complain at all, right?

  • Lisa S

    Amen to blacklisting bad parent and bad kids, as anyone stuck next to screaming, crying, kicking children could attest. It would be nice if they could design aircraft that had a sound proofed section in which kids could be seated. Then at least the other passengers wouldn’t suffer. Hey, here is a way for airlines to make more money: impose a surcharge on tickets for children, or a fee on misbehaving children. Alternatively, airlines should have to reimburse all the passengers who are inconvenienced for hours on end and have to listen to crying, screaming kids.

  • LeeAnne

    AAAHAHAHA!!! barbie, thanks once again for the laughs. ;-) I didn’t see anyone admonishing me, but we have certainly seen lots of disgusted responses to you in this blog, over your past child-hating, racist-leaning, hateful comments. If you wish to avoid “insults” you might want to consider refraining from posting such despicable comments. Join the human race and abandon your hateful attitude, and you can avoid the irritated responses your comments so often inspire. Just a suggestion.

    @Amanda – I think you have me confused with barbie. I’m the one who has kids, loves kids, and believes that parents should do their best to minimize the disturbance their kids cause on planes (and everywhere else, for that matter). Barbie is the one who clearly hates kids, is horrified by mothers nursing their babies (from her comments on another article in here), and agrees with Ryan that kids shouldn’t even be allowed on any plane that they are on. See the diff? Just wanted to clear that up! :-)

    @Thomas – you misunderstood. I was not suggesting that children should take over the first-class cabin. I was suggesting that, if there is to be a “children’s section” on a plane, it should be at the front of the coach cabin. That way, the kid-haters could book seats in the back and board first, families with kids can board last and exit first (thereby limiting their overall time inside the pressurized aluminum tube), and the kid-haters could exit last, thereby never even being exposed to the little monsters. See how that would be best for everyone? The kid-haters could avoid any contact with humans in the pre-adult stage, kids could avoid contact with adults who irrationally hate or fear them, and parents would not have to deal with the hateful stares and comments from the kid-haters. What a solution! I think you’re on to something there!

    There have been quite a few intelligent, insightful posts on this topic of kids on planes, most pointing out the wisdom that it really all boils down to the behavior of the adults: kids cannot be expected (at least by people who have a fundamental grasp on human development) to behave like adults, but parents have an obligation to do their best to minimize the impact of their kids on others on a plane. And passengers have a moral obligation to behave towards families on planes with basic humanity and empathy, and not make matters worse for them by displaying cruelty and lack of compassion. Simple as that.

    Airlines are not going to ban kids on flights. There is no legal basis for them do so, and if one even tried, they would quickly land in court on some kind of discrimination lawsuit. I’m no lawyer, so I don’t know what the legal foundation of such a lawsuit would be (lawyers help me out here), but in this country our constitution DOES provide for essential civil rights, and does NOT allow businesses to deny their products or services on the basis of age, gender, race or national origin. Can you imagine the uproar that would occur if airlines tried to deny travel to families? Kid-haters, deal with it. You may not remember, but you were actually a child once.

  • LeeAnne

    @Greg – ROFL! Sorry but even I’m not cruel enough to inflict something like that on the TV-watching public. Besides, it wouldn’t be a debate. How can it be when only one person can actually communicate in standard English, or form complete, coherent thoughts? (I’ll let you guess which one’s which!) As for why she’s still here – that is a question I ask myself every time I see that blue name in here. And that brings up yet another enduring question: why does barbie continue to put aol as her “website”? Does she really not comprehend the concept that the website field is supposed to be for one’s OWN site, if they have one? Even though she’s been told numerous times? Does she just like to see her name in blue? It’s one of those baffling life mysteries.

    @Lisa S – thanks for qualifying your statement with “bad parenting and bad kids”. I assume that means that you are not of the “kid-hating ilk” who want to indiscriminately ban ALL kids from planes, like some others in here. I’d like to believe that people with that vile and illogical mindset are few and far between. The problem, of course, is that there’s no way to know which are the bad ones until they are on the plane, and then it’s too late! I agree that people should not be subjected to such disturbances, and I also agree that airlines need to have some sort of policy in place to deal with these situations when they occur. The airline that moved the woman with the kicking child away from me did the right thing…as did the airline that moved the irrationally complaining man to the seat near the bathroom, as described by @Susan above! Remember, sometimes its the kid-haters who are behaving badly, not the kids. ;-)

  • Katie

    I work with very, very small children, and you would think that would make me more patient with misbehaving kids out in the real world. It makes me a thousand times LESS tolerant, actually. This is because I have seen how even the most rambunctious kids can be guided to behaving properly. People have commented that there is no excuse, and I am here to tell testify that it is absolutely true. Kids that are kicking seats, running up and down aisles, and throwing tantrums aren’t bad kids; they’re kids that the parents hadn’t EVER disciplined. They have parents that didn’t take a half hour a couple of times in the week before the flight to explain to them what was going to happen, what the conditions were like, and how to behave. Ok, granted, even the best kid can have an off day, but the best kids’ off days are a thousand times easier to deal with than the kids who don’t have a background of behaving. I mean, if a “good day” is them yelling and kicking, but “they DID stay in their seat,” clearly the parents are nuts and not doing their job.

    Funny, I just saw a Super Nanny on this topic. Jojo had the kids actually practice. They sat in little rows, and she explained how we don’t kick seats, we have to sit, and if we’re bored, to ask for something else to do, or think about something that would entertain you. Of course she also gave the parents tips and tricks for dealing with the kids too. It really is amazing what preparing kids can do for them in terms of behavior. They also LOVE rules, and love being responsible for themselves. A trick I’ve always used for a particularly misbehaving kid is to put them in charge of something. Usually, they’re bored. So when you give them power in even little ways, like packing their own carry-on entertainment, or choosing an aisle/window seat, or their soda, they’ll not only know the rules, but get excited about it as well. “What kind of drink do you think you’ll want on the plane? They’ll have these sodas, this juice, you can get anything you want!”

    They repeat things like mantras. Don’t forget, they’re total tattle-tales. ;-) If you prep them right, THEY could be telling the obnoxious adult passengers how to act!

  • MVFlyer

    Two words: CARGO HOLD (or if you’re flying Spirit, pay the $45 and put the kid in the overhead bin!)

    (just kidding–I have two kids, and when they were little, we went to Grandma’s and Grandpa’s on a plane to Detroit, and one of them was a screaming pain in the &%& until we finally got her quieted down…I felt horrible and apologized to the other pax in the area, who were surprisingly nice and understanding. But, getting them used to flying has had its benefits–a few years back, I was traveling alone with my son, and since I was a high-level flyer with the airline and they needed to free up a couple of coach seats, offered me a first class seat–told them my son was with me, and they said no prob–we’ve got two F seats together. He was absolutely a perfect gentleman, and even got kudos from the other pax and the FAs saying how nice and polite he was. Just got to get them used to it, and train them well.)

  • David Z

    @Katie

    Thank you so much for sharing that. Now if only those kids taught their parents how to behave while in flight…

  • Thomas

    @LeeAnne Do you also have a problem with those of us in first class? Let the kiddies and their parents board first in the back of the plane. Given your idea, they’re still in the middle of the plane! I do like your idea of not bothering those that dislike children. I just think mines a better approach to the subject. Besides, those in the back of the plane are more likely to survive a crash. More little bodies to pay for Obama’s health care plan :)

  • LeeAnne

    @Katie, thank you for a brilliant and insightful post. You hit many nails on the head there! The biggest one being that it really all boils down to good parenting. Which, as you pointed out, really needs to begin before reaching the boarding gate.

    You also spotlighted some techniques that I used to use on my kids. I grew up on the East coast, but moved West, and all of my family is still in the East. I’ve been taking my kids on flights back East regularly since they were babies, and the only bad experience I ever had was that time when my son developed a fever in flight. Other than that, it was about as smooth-sailing as could be expected, given their ages at the time. From the moment they could understand, we would prepare for our trips doing “practice runs” so the kids would know what to expect, and would know what was expected of them. We also did role-playing – we made it into a game. We’d take turns being the pilot, the flight attendant, another passenger. Obviously my techniques evolved over time to be age appropriate, but I can tell you that they worked – my kids were certainly not angels, and we had our challenging moments, but we always had a role-played situation to refer to in their memories during those moments.

    I also wanted to mention that I have a child diagnosed with ADHD. I find the always-selfless-and-empathetic (not) barbie’s suggestion that kids with ADHD should not be allowed to fly, to be so vile and contemptible that it makes me want to puke. That is just barbie doing her classic spewing about things she knows nothing about. ADHD is not a disease, and does not equate to “bad behavior”. My son, WITH his ADHD, was better-behaved on planes that the vast majority of kids we’ve flown with. Again it all boils down to the parenting. I always knew how much my son understood, and what his limits were, and we came onboard well-prepared. This translated to a kid who wanted to do his best, and a parent who knew how to handle it when he simply couldn’t.

    My kids are in their teens now, and I am immensely proud of how they behaved on all their flights, from our frequent cross-country trips to our family vacations to Italy, Costa Rica, and Hawaii.

    @Thomas – not sure why you would suggest that I have a problem with first class passengers. Having children at the front of coach would not impact first class. Were you aware that coach passengers are not generally even ALLOWED in first class? And there is usually enough separation that any kid-noise would not be an issue. Jetliners are pretty loud to begin with, so a crying baby usually just bothers the people in the rows very nearby. As for where on the plane a “kids section” should be, obviously this is all academic because the airlines are not going to do that. But I personally would have no problem with it at either end. In fact an argument could be made that having it in the back, closer to the rest rooms, might actually be better for those little people with small bladders. So, I will happily concur with you on that…although I can’t fathom why you don’t seem to understand my reasoning that keeping the kiddies on the plane for the shortest possible time would be the best option. Whatever – like I said, it’s all moot anyway.

  • Jeanne

    I think a couple of posters are forgetting the title of the article: “Daddy can’t fly: parents who shouldn’t be allowed on the plane”. This isn’t about child-lovers or child-haters; this is about genetic donors with the honorific “Mother” or “Father” who choose not to parent their children. I’ve encountered them, not just on planes, but in the grocery store, in restaurants, in church . . . I believe that we all have encountered these people. I truly feel sorry for the children of these people, since they are being denied the security of growing up with people who care enough about them to parent them. Katie, your post was very much on-target. Thank you.

  • Scott

    @Lee Anne

    YOU are the one not understanding Thomas. He is stating the case for premium travelers NOT simply First Class customers.

    You can love kids all you want, but when you engage the ridiculous posters here, you seem just as ridiculous.

    Also, having kids is one things, but insisting that putting kids in the front of the cabin is the typical entitlement attitude where those who have kids think they should be prioritized with everything, including always boarding first. The ONLY people that really need extra time for kids are the ones who have purchased a seat for their child AND are using a car seat, thus needing to install it securely. Everyone else requesting early boarding is simply acting entitled or selfish.

    The place that makes the most sense is on the rear of the plane, but since we are not speaking about every flight and there is no extra revenue outside of charging fees for it, airlines are not going to do it, so it is a moot point.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    As a father of a 3-YO who took his first flight at 3 months and having flown over 18 flights (including flights to Europe and Asia) so far, the key for successful traveling with an infant\toddler\young child is preparation which includes scheduling flights during your child nap times or sleep time, bringing toys, prepping your child on good behavior, etc. It is a lot of work to have a successful flight with an infant\toddler\young child. We have been lucky with our son so far but even if a parent does all of this prep work and etc., it doesn’t guarantee successful air travel with an infant\toddler\young child (sometimes, a young child will have an off day) but it greatly increases the odds.

    I fly over 100 flights a year for business for more than 10 years now. Based upon my experiences, the parents are usually the problem. First, they don’t prep the child for the flight in advance (e.g. “Daddy has to work so it will be you and me that are flying to see Nana”). Second, they don’t prep for the flight (e.g. bringing toys, food, diapers, etc.). Third, they will travel when the child is ill. Fourth, they don’t discipline the child when they misbehaved. Fifth, lack of common sense…I know a couple that took their 4-YO daughter on a 10-hr flight which was her first flight and she was miserable…in my opinion, they should have took a cheap one-hour flight to get her familiar with airline travel.

    Also, there are some parents that are selfish. I was on an US Airways flight from Phoenix to Spokane and I was sitting in First Class. There was a mother with a lap child and two children sitting in FC. I had the window seat (2F) and the mother had the aisle seat (2D) and her two children (teenagers) were sitting across the aisle (2A and 2C). I was completing some presentations on my laptop for a meeting. Throughout the flight, the lap child threw her bottle, teething rings, toys, was spitting up and etc. I was dodging bottles, toys, teething rings and spit instead of working on my presentations. The mother should have sat in 2C and one of her teenagers should have sat in 2D instead of forcing me to dodge bottles, toys, teething rings and spit. When my wife and 3-YO son travel with me and we are sitting in First Class, we will get the window seat in the next row for the one of us so in the unlikely event that our son acts up and kick the seat in front or etc.; it will be one of us not another FC passenger.

    I was on a recent US Airways flight where a young couple had a young infant (less than 6 months) and the baby girl was crying Bloody Mary for ten minutes and the parents did nothing. I got up and suggested to the parents to give her a bottle and without seconds, she stopped crying.

    I was on a Delta flight from ATL to PHX back in 1998. The flight was full…no empty seats at all. I couldn’t get an upgrade to First Class. Sitting in the row behind me was a father (I think that he was more of a sperm donor than a father) and his three sons (one was a lap child). The wife/mother was sitting in the seat across the aisle from them.

    There was a doctor sitting next to me who was preparing for a conference in PHX as well as I was preparing for a client meeting. For the whole flight, the two older boys took down their trays and sat their baby brother on it where he kicked our seats for the entire flight. We spoke with the flight attendant but she said that there were no empty seats that she could move us to. She told the father to control his children but he was a big kid himself and did nothing. When we landed in PHX and were deplaning, the doctor turn to the wife\mother and said, ‘it seems like your four children needs a father and some discipline’…the other passengers laughed and she turned beet red with embarrassment.

    To be fair, how about annoying adults? There have been only a few times over the past ten years that a baby\toddler\young child was an ‘issue’ on my flights and it was generally the fault of the parent(s). In regards to an ‘obnoxious’ adult passenger in First Class (since I am usually sitting in FC), the number is over 100. To me, there is no difference between an unruly toddler and an obnoxious adult except that the adult should know better.

    A drunken passenger is just as annoying as a screaming child as well as passengers who shout into their cell phones, passengers who want to talk to you when you don’t, passengers who can’t talk without using the F-word and/or other curse words, passengers watching porn on their laptops, passengers who want to ‘steal’ your seat since it is better, etc. On one flight from PHX to SEA, the passenger next to me in FC tried to convince me to join Amway which I found to be just as annoying as an unruly toddler after I told him politely several times that I have work to do on my laptop and I am not interested.

    The solution to the problem is difficult. Unless the child is screaming Bloody Mary at the gate (which the child and parent(s) should be removed and either fully refunded their fare without penalties in cash (no vouchers) or put on a later flight), it is hard to deal with a screaming child in mid-air. With reduced capacity, it is hard to move passengers since most flights are full. Fining the parent(s) for a screaming child will be difficult to enforce and collect.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Lee Anne: It is not going to happen but if an airline decided to have a children section, the best place is at the back of the plane. I can’t speak for all airlines but all of the flights that I have taken on US Airways where we gate-checked his umbrella stroller, the stroller was never been sitting in the jetway when we deplaned (sitting in FC or one of the first few rows in coach)…I always ended up waiting minutes for it. If the children section was in the back, all of the young children gate checked items should be waiting in the jetway when they deplaned.

    @ Lee Anne – “Were you aware that coach passengers are not generally even ALLOWED in first class?
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –
    This is true but I can’t speak for all airlines but it is not enforced on US Airways especially the ‘West’ operated flights (the old America West flights and old America West crew).

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Samba – “When weary of the the little boy behind him kicking his seat repeatedly, my husband nicely turned around and asked him to stop.”
    - – - – - – -
    I usually will ring for a FA, tell the FA the problem and ask the FA to handle the problem given how some people are now days.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Lee Anne 0- “I was on a JFK-LAX flight once when my son was small. About half-way through the flight he started feeling warm, and crying uncontrollably.”
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    For flights more than an hour, we carry a ‘medicine chest’ with us in case if our son gets ill on a flight. To us, it is worth the extra five to ten minutes that we will spend in security as the TSA run tests on the bottles.

    @ Lee Anne – “THOSE are the types of parents who shouldn’t even be allowed to fly! Problem is, there’s no way to tell which ones are which until they’re on the plane, is there? ;-)” I think that the airlines should have a document on their websites giving parents with young children tips and etc. on how to travel and etc. When my wife was pregnant, I started to research and read comments on forums on how to travel with infants\toddlers\young child; however, I don’t think that most parents will research how to travel with an infant\toddlers\young child before flying like I did.

  • EricR

    As ill as it makes me, I have to agree with barbie45 on this one and disagree with LeeAnne’s self-serving position. The people who fly in first/business class (of which I have yet to be one) pay so much more money than those of us in coach, they DESERVE to have peace & quiet without an uncontrollable child (or entire section of children) bothering them. It’s because of those flyers that the rest of us in coach can afford our subsidized fares. And people who fly in coach should also have some protection from the horror story passengers we’ve all seen at one point or another.

    I don’t care if a child has ADHD or has just eaten too much candy before the flight, that child does not have the right to completely ruin the flight of another individual who paid the same amount of money for his or her seat. It’s the same as parents who bring their children into the movies, only to have their crying, screaming, or seat-kicking kid ruin the movie for every other paying customer.

    Problem is, there’s no good solution for the problem! You’ll never get an airline to ban children (which they really shouldn’t have to), and you’ll never be able to implement a policy that kicks off bad parents (far too subjective).

    All I can think of is for airlines to adopt concrete guidelines for ALL passengers of ALL ages, disclose the rules in the preflight safety announcement/video, and then adhere to the policy with no exceptions.

    It sucks that we even have to consider legislating good behavior, but as long as there are people out there who’ve never learned good manners, people who just don’t care about others, and people who drink alcohol, you’re always going to have these problems.

    Here are my suggestions (as impossible to implement as they may be):

    1) No alcohol may be brought on board for consumption, and none will be served by the airline. If a flight attendant suspects a passengers has boarded with a blood alcohol level greater than 0.08%, that passenger can be subjected to a breathalyzer test. If such passenger fails the test, he or she will be removed from the plane.

    2) No passenger may create sustained, regular noises louder than 75 decibels, either with a device (electronic or otherwise), their body, or their voice. If any passenger of any age in any class of seating violates this rule, s/he will be reseated in the back coach section of the plane, and will be put on notice that one more incident will result in such passenger being banned from flying that airline.

    3) No passenger may repeatedly kick any other passenger’s seat. If any passenger of any age in any class of seating violates this rule, s/he will be reseated in the back coach section of the plane, and will be put on notice that one more incident will result in such passenger being banned from flying that airline.

    4) No passenger may have any sexual contact with another individual on the plane in the main cabin in view of other passengers, aside from holding hands, brief kissing, snuggling, or some other reasonable socially-acceptable affection. If any passengers of any age in any class of seating violate this rule, s/he will be reseated in separate rows and must remain in their new seats for the duration of the flight. If any airline employee violates this rule, they’re just plain stupid!

    5) No passenger may egregiously encroach upon another passenger’s seat, either by crawling underneath, physically disturbing the occupant of such seat, or causing unusually strong and objectionable aromas (from FOOD, sickos!) If any passengers of any age in any class of seating violate this rule, they will be reseated at least three rows away from the disturbed seat occupant.

    6) Flight attendants may suspend enforcement of any rule if no one complains about a passenger’s violation of any of the above rules. Flight attendants will also have the authority to correct disturbing behavior when, in their professional opinion, such behavior is affecting other passenger’s enjoyment or health. However, no flight attendant may affect punitive actions against any passenger who complains about such flight attendant’s customer service or job performance, as long as such passenger is doing so in such a way as not to threaten harm to said flight attendant or aircraft.

    7) If any passenger brings medical proof of an allergy to a certain type of pet, and the flight crew knows of another passenger bringing such type of pet on a plane (such as a cat), while unfortunate, the flight crew must deplane the pet and its owner if the allergic passenger cannot be seated in such a manner as to prevent an allergic reaction.

    8) No passenger may display pornographic material of any type or medium whilst on an aircraft. If any passenger of any age in any class of seating violates this rule, said passenger’s pornographic material (or device that displays such) shall be confiscated for the duration of the flight.

    I’m not an attorney, so I’m sure the above “provisions” are laughably written, but you get the point.

    And no…I don’t hate children or pets. But no one – not even lovable little ones – have the right to ruin another person’s ability to sleep, concentrate on work, enjoy an in-flight movie, or just relax.

    Having said that, I really wish Chris would ban barbie45! (And LeeAnne really needs to chill out.)

  • Jeanne in TX

    Dear @barbie45

    In response to your remark “I am suggesting that parents who know thir child suffers some from severe emotional problems think twice about bringing them on a plane.”

    As a parent of a child with severe PTSD, I appaud your remark. I also refrain from flying with my child because of the severity of the PTSD the child suffers. What if we’re stuck on the tarmac for 3 hours? Or more? Or what if we’re flying and encounter a severe storm? What if we’re stuck by an unruly intoxicated person who’s being foul? Or what if we’re stuck by a crying baby? What if we get pulled aside going through security and TSA separates my child and me? She’d be terrified if that happened.

    In flying, there are too many factors that are out of my direct control. For the comfort of my child, I feel like I need to directly control as many aspects of traveling that I can. So as a result, we always drive when we travel someplace.

    You can take as many breaks as you like, stop at all the rest stops and walk around, leave as much travel time to get there as you need, traveling at your leisure. As a result of a couple of such travel experiences, my child now loves to travel with Mom and is looking forward to another trip this summer.

    And in the unlikely event that I have car trouble (my care is still fairly new), I’ve got my cell phone and AAA membership, plus my car payment full towing service to make things as comfortable as possible.

    Certainly, it takes us longer (or maybe not if you’re stuck because of a cancelled or grounded flight), but it’s a lot less stressful and more comfortable.

    There’s no way I’d subject my child to airplane travel. Too much stress for her.

    Yes, there are times when it’s entirely appropriate to just say “no” to airline travel, for the comfort of the child and for the comfort of the other airline passengers.

  • barbie45

    Jeanne,kuddos on being a good parent with common sense. You have placed your child’s welfare first. You know that your child unfortunately has a problem which flying would only aggravate r. I wish you much success with your little girl and am so happy that she is in the care of a caring, responsible parent. Hopefully new medications and treatment will alleviate her condition. Best of luck to you both.

  • http://www.sanibel-rentals.net Samba

    Dear @arizonaroadwarrior. You fly a lot, an appropriate nomenclature!

    Actually, in this case, I am not sure if asking the FA to assist would have been the answer. The man who became so annoyed would have certainly known that we had been the ones complaining. The mother of the child was paying no attention to the little boy, but this man was engaging the kid from the moment the plane lifted and obviously developed some kind of bond. He felt the little boy was just behaving naturally and that no one should have chastized him for it.

    The crazy “accept” everything attitude I see so many people adopting in regards to children’s behavior is very unsettling. It manifests itself not only on planes, but in shops, churches, libraries.

    Perhaps I am in the minority, but I don’t see this leniency as necessarily being a good thing for the child’s future. We all live with limitations at work and play as adults but if you never encounter them as children, what message does that send, what lesson is learned?

  • barbie45

    Arizona Warrior, Your post was extremely well written. You have earned your miles and status financially and by emotional flying strain As you travel for business and pleasure you are savy about flying. You see both sides of the aisle. By traveling first class and business you enable us coach passengers to fly fairly cheapfully compared to twenty or thirty years ago. The airlines are not going to ban children, eliminate booze for financial reasons. They will not force children to sit in back or front. The only alternative especially for passengers in first class or business to handle unruly children is simply place those families on a no fly list. Make the rule and enforce it. I am sure that a few cases would eliminate abuse from the minority of children terrorizing a passengers on a flight. Not all passengers show as much concern about their children as you do.

  • Mike

    @LeeAnn, normally I would agree with you and Barbie is the one I would call a nutcase, but in this instance she is dead on and you are completely wrong. There is no right to fly, just as driving is a privelage and not a right. The airline is a company owned by shareholders and as a company it can and sometimes will decide that some people are just not the type that should be on their plane. They have every right to boot a kid and their parent of the flight if it is affecting the 20 other passengers around them. Those 20 people also bought a ticket and should be able to have a flight withough being screamed at, kicked, or having stuff thrown at them.

    As many others pointed out, if a parent really is trying to control their kid, then maybe a stern word from another passenger will serve to wake them up. Those parents who think that it is their right to bring their screaming kid on board even though they know it has happened before do not deserve to be let on the plane. A car rental company can decide to not rent to a specific customer, a store can ban a customer from their property and an airline can remove an unruly customer if it so chooses. They are a business and free to do so.

    LeeAnne, if you went to Macy’s with a screaming kid and the manager eventually asked you to leave because your family was causing a disruption, what would you do? Scream at the manager and tell him it was your right to be there? Yea, lets see how that works out when you are escorted off premises by the police.

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