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Daddy can’t fly: Parents who shouldn’t be allowed on a plane

April 10, 2010

During a recent 2 1/2-hour flight from Portland, Maine, to Charlotte, N.C., Tom Meador heard nothing but crying.

“The baby in the back row screamed bloody murder,” he remembers. “Its mother did everything she could think of to quiet the baby. She actually was dripping with sweat because you could tell she worried about what it was doing to the other passengers. I think she had reason to worry, too, because there were some very sour fellow passengers.”

The problem is as old as air travel itself: Adults seated next to misbehaving kids while confined to a pressurized aluminum tube. But it seemed like until now, at least, we knew whose side the parents were on. Like the mom on Meador’s flight, they did everything they could to keep their offspring from driving the rest of the passengers quietly mad.

Today, you can’t be so sure.


Take Pamela Root, who recently became the poster child for permissive parents after she and her two-year-old son were kicked off a Southwest Airlines flight. Apparently the child’s demands (“Go! Plane! Go!” and “I want Daddy!”) were so loud that the in-flight announcements couldn’t be heard by the other passengers. Southwest apologized for ejecting them and offered Root a $300 voucher, incurring the wrath of the commenting classes.

Have parents stopped caring?

“Today’s parents have a different view of children’s behavior,” says Renee Mosiman, a marriage and family therapist and co-author of “The Smarter Preschooler: Unlocking Your Child’s Intellectual Potential.” “Parents are more permissive, which can result in children who are more unruly in public, especially during plane travel.”

I’ve given this some thought after an earlier column in which I wondered if children should be banned from flying. Halfway through the story, I conceded that no discussion of banning kids would be complete without the possibility of getting rid of bad parents, too.

I can’t pretend to know what separates a good mom or dad from a bad one. But when it comes to air travel, there are a few telltale signs that you’re dealing with parental incompetence. Here they are:

‘My child can do no wrong.’
There’s a small group of parents that believes its kids walk on water. On the ground, they are free to indulge their offspring to their heart’s content. But on a plane, it doesn’t quite work.

Michael Liebmann, a legal secretary who lives in Atlanta, remembers flying from Tel Aviv to Rome, where he was seated next to a child, “who started screaming the moment we took off.” After a while, he politely asked its mother to do something. “She yelled at me that her ‘perfect child’ could scream as much and as long as it wanted to,” he says. “No amount of niceness was able to accomplish anything.”

I have some experience with parents who turn a blind eye to their kids’ shortcomings: I am related to a few of them. They shouldn’t allow these kinds of parents to buy airline tickets — regardless of their kids’ ages.

‘I don’t care if my child misbehaves.’
What’s worse than parents who are oblivious to the annoying nature of their children? A parent who isn’t.

Gary Zeune, a professional speaker based in Powell, Ohio, once sat between two toddlers — one in the row behind him, the other in the row in front of him — who performed an exquisite form of torture. “The kid in front was standing and let out a scream,” he recalls. “The one behind me replied with a scream.” After about six of these back-and-forth screams, it became clear to Zeune that the moms were unable to control their kids.

“Everyone was livid,” he told me. So he stood up and ordered the children to be quiet. And after that, they were.

Parents who won’t step up to the plate to control their kids ought to be shown the cabin door.

‘I can’t control my offspring.’
This is the most benign version of incompetent parenting. I know, because I’ve been one in the past.

I thought I could keep my little ones (I have three) occupied on the plane. Then the doors closed and suddenly I was in charge of three wild children who refused to sit in their seats, demanded food and yelled at one another. After that, I grounded my family from flying for a while.

Nina Boal, a computer programmer who lives in Columbia, Md., remembers a flight from Tokyo to Detroit, where she was seated next to “an inconsolably screaming kid.” “No matter what the parents did, the kid wouldn’t stop screaming and crying,” she says. “This was an 11-hour flight.”

Parents who lose control of their offspring on a plane can be forgiven the first time it happens. But if they know they have a problem, and they continue flying, they’re no better than the ones who can’t, or won’t, do anything about it.

Oh, one more thing: This is bound to get worse.

“Today’s parents think that their little darlings have the right to scream, pound on the backs of chairs, hit passengers on the head and do whatever else amuses them,” says psychiatrist Carole Lieberman. “This comes from parents feeling entitled and being too distracted by their own fears, worries, computer work, movies, and so on. They think of the flight attendants as their own personal babysitters.”

Airlines already blacklist passengers for all sorts of reasons, from bad behavior to breaking their ticket rules.

Perhaps they should add inept parents to the list.

Christopher Elliott is the author of Scammed: How to Save Your Money and Find Better Service in a World of Schemes, Swindles, and Shady Deals. Critics have called it “eye-opening” and “inspiring” — it’ll “grab your attention and won’t let go.” Order your copy now on Amazon, Barnes & Noble or iTunes.

90 comments

  • Adele

    If your child is 3 or older, I have three words “portable DVD player”, and two more words, “favorite movies”. They kept our daughter silent for an 8 hour flight a few months ago.

  • Jack Bauer

    @Bill – I choose D only if both barb and LeAnne are cute, that way I can work my charm…j/k

    I have a right to fly, so put me on First Class, for free….NOT! Unfortunately, we have to PAY for that “right”, so I guess it’s more of a privilege.

    @Greg – Resurrect the Jerry Springer Show and put these ladies up for debate! Now I’d watch that!

    Disclaimer: I’m a self-proclaimed “kid hater”, I don’t have kids, BUT I do believe that kid behavior stems from parents’ behavior (even/despite kids’ emotional/mental problems, as a large number of them CAN actually be trained to behave), so how about trying something called “education”? Each parent has the responsability to decide whether or not they can fly with their kids. That way, they don’t stupidly find themselves in a “no fly” list!

  • David Z

    And to LeeAnn and others: don’t take personally Mike’s and barbie’s post on “rights”. We may not agree, but…that’s essentially how rights are recognized among one another.

    Unfortunately I also agree with barbie’s original comment on the Constitution (well, that of the U.S. in this discussion) not saying one has the right to fly or so. That and other provisions may spell out not denying service or so based on gender, age or race, but…neither do any of them say one has the right to have things done their way in every other aspect of our lives.

    Again essentially, and IMHO, rights are only as good as being able to enforce them, especially on those who don’t agree or recognize them at all. If anything, a challenge is finding out where we can all agree on something and how to possibly work it out.

    In this discussion, though, good luck. As some have already said, there are no easy answers.

  • Andrew

    I was on a flight once where there was a kid who was terrorizing everyone. One guy asked this kid’s mother to deal with it. When she gave the whole “it’s not my problem” attitude the guy explained that he would take it upon himself to teach the kid to talk like a sailor. Among other things, he said that by the end of the flight this kid would be telling everyone that his mommy is a big c**t. While I don’t approve, it definitely worked. That woman made sure her son didn’t leave his seat the entire flight.

  • barbie45

    Here is my suggestion. I amnot quite sure if it would legally fly. If a minor is behaving like a terrorist- in training, especially in business or first class consider taking the airline to small claims court. I do not mean that that if a minor is just a nuisance. However if your seat is being kicked constantly, you are being hit on the head forget the parents. After you have gone through proper channels and get no results document your experience. Also if possible get other passengers to support your documentation in writng. Perhaps if the airlines had to pay for failure to protect you against bodily harm and had to compensate you they might just take a stricter stance against abusive minors. This would apply to adults also.

  • Steve

    As someone who is childfree by choice, I probably have a lower tolerance than some people for children misbehaving. Perhaps I’ve been lucky, though, but I’ve had very good experiences on planes and haven’t had any problems to speak of. Restaurants and stores, though, are another matter. I can tolerate a crying baby (what is a parent supposed to do, after all, if a baby won’t stop crying and there’s nothing apparently wrong?), but I get incensed at parents who let their children run around and disturb other customers.

  • Katie

    Thank you for the kind comments. :-) @Lee Anne, role play is fantastic! Esp. if you get to be a “bad” passenger and they can be the flight attendant telling you everything you’ve done wrong. Oh man, do kids love telling adults when they’ve messed up. ;-)

    I just wanted to add another thing about prepping: If it’s framed in threats, it won’t work. As in, saying for weeks on end, “You better not yell on the plane!” or, “Don’t forget, you CANNOT get up once we’re on the plane!” etc., are useless. That sort of stressed tone just makes kids completely and totally tune out. It also would make the kids stressed as well; instead of flying being an adventure they have control over, it’s something they end up hyped up about; they’re worried about doing the wrong thing, and we all know when kids are anxious that they totally act up.

    In terms of giving them power, asking them questions and letting them “solve” the problem is the way to go. So instead of, “You better not be loud,” I do stuff (well, with students, I don’t have kids) like, “Now, when we get on the plane, there are usually lots of different kinds of people. Do you know how Mommy sometimes goes on the plane for work? Well, since she’s working, she needs to think hard, and it’s hard to do that with so many people around. Do you think we should be loud on planes? If we see someone working or sleeping, do you think it’s okay to disturb them?” Not only does it again give them power, because they come up with the answer, but it’s also MUCH easier for them to remember when there’s a sort of “trail of bread crumbs” in terms of thought. Context always creates much more of a “trail” for them to follow in terms of logic, which helps them remember.

    Keep asking questions at the airport, especially in lines. I follow the, “I know nothing, you know everything” approach with teaching as much as I can. So let them tell you about the airport, airplane, etc., once you’re actually there and after you’ve been prepping them. “What is that big machine there? Oh, a metal detector! Why do we put our things in there? What does it do? Where do you think we go whenever we’re done in this line?” It keeps them from being bored and also adds to the excitement, as they’re now actually SEEING what you’ve been glorifying to them for weeks.

    Once, a kid wouldn’t hang his back pack up. Just refused. So I went to hang it up – and every single time, let it slip from my hands. I eventually pretended to be super frustrated: “Uggghh, I don’t know WHAT’S wrong with this thing – do you know how?” He gave me a look like I was the biggest moron on the planet (I don’t blame him!), but eventually he did it himself and showed me. Power! Let them be comfortable with their own knowledge and expect them to remember it, not to fail.

    I’m not a psychologist or anything, these are just some things I’ve noticed help loads when I’m teaching. But trust me – I’ve had days when I want to rip my hair out and can’t even remember the tricks I’ve described here because I’m so frazzled. I can (to a point, of course ;-) ) sympathize with parents.

  • Thomas

    Please don’t let this blog end. It’s the most fun I’ve had on this trip!

  • Chris

    There’s a big difference between a crying infant and an out-of-control 5-year-old. I’m far more forgiving of the crying infant than the 5-year-old.

    However, adults have their annoyances too — the guy whose blubber rolls over the armrest into your seat, the woman with too much perfume, the annoying guy who decides to talk to you even if you don’t want him to.

  • Joe Farrell

    OK, the exception that proves the rule.. . .

    Om 12 Apr I was on a transcontinental flight from LAX-EWR on Continental in First Class.

    Toward the end of boarding a family with 4 children boarded and sat behind us in F. They looked like 3 girls under 7 or 8 and a boy about 5. Except for the excitement of boarding, for the next 5 hours I did not hear a peep out of these kids. They had electronics out the wazoo and the kids sat quietly and listened or played games, read books and were great kids.

    So = every child is not a nightmare – just mine it seems.

  • barbie45

    I just read an interesting post on flyer talk concerning obnoxious children. A passenger on KLM after the flight crew had detemined that the situation was intolerable.They sympathasized with the passenger and brought over a botlle of wine and credited ten thousand klm miles to his account. good deal.

  • jrgal331

    One word… Benadryl!

    One comment… use it!

  • m

    Wow. If only I could boot adults off the plane who are a$$holes, or the jerks who try to hit on someone who is stuck sitting next to them, or the smelly businessmen who couldn’t afford first class but sure can fart it up, or the people who smoked a pack of cigarettes before boarding and reek, or the loser who wants to talk to you the whole flight, or the socially inept people who loudly reveal every excruciating personal detail to their friend across the aisle, or the person who has his/her ipod/computer/whatever turned up so loud you can’t think. Kids on a plane are the least of my concerns.

  • Amanda

    LeeAnne,
    Sorry it took me so long to reply.. been traveling! I realized the way I worded it made it sound like you were the rude one.. nope! I meant to ask if you had offered help! So sorry about that!

    Lisa S,
    I would like to expand on the idea of a “cry room” movies used to have them. My church still has one. Perhaps a cry room on a plane. Sound proof! Flight attendants could easily request passengers with “loud” children to please use the cry room!

    Thomas,
    Maybe you were the guy on the plane that stared at us when we flew business class… we will continue to fly business class and have every right to even with a child! We can afford it and travel enough to have earned miles to upgrade to .. wait FIRST class. Oh dear! Seriously though, I understand your gripe. Just know that many who sit in business or first class with kiddos understand the dilemma and are prepared!

  • Ituri

    There IS a simple solution. Its called a two strike rule.

    One strike on record for a child, no penalties but a warning.

    Two strikes, and that child cannot fly until he reaches the age of non-screaming, which is generally 3 years old.

    Trust me, if you set a consequence for these kids behavior, it WILL change. Plus, the flight agent involved could get a little satisfaction when some rude mother says “its your problem.” Well, her problem just got a strike against the family. Ta-da!

    Also, be generous to parents in need. I was sitting by a crier who had nothing to do! No book, coloring, toys, nada. I think the mom realized her mistake… but being an artist with a scrapbook and colored pencils, I popped out an age appropriate Little Mermaid in about 5 minutes, then sat it and the pencils down for the kid. Coloring = SILENCE! And the mother thanked me for helping out. ^_^

  • DCMommy

    I realize I am coming to this late and therefore no one will read my response, but it will make me feel better to get it out.

    I travel with my almost-4-year-old daughter a lot; we started when she was 4 months old. Being in a military family, we’re often stationed far from extended family (and driving isn’t an option from overseas; not many passenger boat tickets for sale these days).

    I start preparing for our trips many weeks in advance; by visiting the dollar stores and bargain bins, collecting small toys and activities. I hide them and don’t introduce them until at the airport. Anyone with kids knows that new toys are novel and keep their attention longer.

    I always bring her carseat and buy her her own ticket (even when she could travel free on my lap, I never did that). By buckling her into her car seat, she’s not only safer, but she’s unable to move about the plane and annoy other passengers.

    In addition to removing her shoes, I instruct her to NOT kick the seat in front of her because it will hurt the nice man’s/lady’s back. Even at 1 year old, she seemed to understand this. When she does kick, I apologize to the person in front of her and sternly reprimand her. I’ve even spent a good portion of a flight or two with one hand holding her feet in place.

    When she was younger, I brought plenty of bottles and pacifiers. On the advice of her pediatrician, I also brought Benedryl and wasn’t afraid to use it if we all needed her to go to sleep.

    My problem? I’m a good Mom. I know I am. I know my kid isn’t perfect. I remember my pre-kid days. I didn’t like being kicked or listening to a screaming kid. So I do my best to ensure my kid is as well-behaved as possible, and as comfortable as possible. But you know what? Kids are kids. Babies are babies. They cry sometimes. They act up sometimes. Even the very best parents can’t “control” their children all the time, and for people who believe that’s true? They’re called childless. Just wait, honey. Just wait. Your kids will also eat chicken McNuggets, too, no matter how much you swear they won’t.

    I was similarly sweating on one flight (returning from attending my grandmother’s funeral while my husband was in Iraq – not flying wasn’t an option and neither was leaving the baby home). I couldn’t get her to stop crying. I fed her, burped her, walked the aisles with her, sang to her, and even adminstered Benedryl. I was doing my best. I apologized to aggravated passengers. Something tells me that if they knew I was a depressed military wife, struggling to raise a child while her husband was at war, mourning her grandmother, I’d have been cut a little slack. But since I don’t wear t-shirts that say as much, I was the subject of scorn, nasty looks, and grumbling. An irritated passenger even offered my baby gum. Yes, gum. She was 5 months old.

    We were all babies once, folks. Not every parent whose child cries or acts up on a plane is a bad parent. A little compassion and understanding could go a long way.

    Thanks.

  • KC

    Well said DCMommy!

  • Huck

    Babies cry, there is no getting around it, but unless they are sick they usually only cry during take off and landing because of the pressure on their ears. I don’t have kids and don’t really like flying with them but it is a fact of life. It is the parents who think their kids are little angels and can do no wrong that i want banned from everywhere! stores, restaurants and especially flying. There is no safe place.
    Parents are so self absorbed, selfish and narcicistic these days they think Kids belong wherever mommy and daddy are. Morton’s steak, sure (“Colter this is what hamburger looks like in its original form”). 5 star resorts, Absolutely! (Four Seasons resort in both Hawaii and Bali) even though it is not geared for entertaining your little crumb crabber. First class on a plane, ” I fly on business all year long I will fly first class/Business class for vacation and let everyone else deal with my wonderful family”!! Concierge rooms at hotels always! Nothing beats having your little precious angel put his sicky hands on my pant leg or brief case as he is running around the room. When are parents going to act like adults? Unless you have to go to Australia and you under 8 child also has to go, Leave them at home.
    Nobody wants to be on a plane for 13-14 hours! They really don’t want to be on that same plane with your “he’s just tired, Children can be fussy, It’s late and past her bedtime, When do we get there, Kids!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.clarkecomputer.com Charles Clarke

    Wow! Sure found out some commenters hot buttons. Obvious from when someone goes from good, reasonable comments to raging rants!

    There are lots of useful suggestions here for parents who will be flying with their kids. I really liked the suggestion that airlines provide a brochure for parents. It would be easy to have it in PDF form ready to download. Provide a prominent link when you’re booking more than 2 or if you otherwise indicate you will be flying with children. And yes, maybe a brochure for adults too. Obviously some need one. :-)

    Infants and parents who are trying, in a good way, should get some slack. Sometimes flying is the best way for them to travel despite the possible problems. Children learn from their parents. Most of the misbehaving children I’ve dealt with have parents with behavioural problems. If your children are a pain, ask yourself how you can set a better example. And, feel free to point out the misbehaving adults and explain loudly to your children why such behaviour is not acceptable. :-) Yelling at someone, whether your kids, the FA, another passenger, is one of these behaviours. If you are yelling at your own kids, I may just point out to them that such behaviour is unacceptable. :-)

    I had to laugh at the offer of teaching the kids to talk like a sailor. Too bad that actually teaching them that would cause more disruptions in the future.

    Adding bad parents/passengers to temporary no-fly lists after a warning seems like a good idea. Publicize it as “We care about our good passengers and want to make sure the disruptive ones fly the OTHER airline. Which kind are you?”

    I’ve used a technique in restaurants, but haven’t on planes because I’m a window seat guy and haven’t had bad kids close enough. What I do is:
    Go over to the kid (if necessary).
    Talk in a quiet voice and say
    You’re lucky! If I acted as bad as you when I was a kid, my parents would spank me until I couldn’t sit down for a week. Enjoy it before your parents wake up to the fact that their lives would be so much nicer if they disciplined you.

    Usually the kids are already bug-eyed that some stranger came over to them. About 1/2 the time, the parents chime in that their parents would have spanked them also. Without accusing or confronting the parents, it’s a way of reminding parents that they are responsible for making sure the children would behave reasonably well before the children were taken out in public. My thanks to all of the parents who do that.

    BTW, there is a reasonably soundproof compartment on the planes. It’s the cockpit. That’s why the pilots like it. If you’re going to add another, don’t put the kids in it. Let people pay more to be in it and kick them out if they aren’t quiet (or stink or are rude or …).

  • Concerned flyer

    Mr. Clarke is SO right. Now of course, babies and kids with true emotional problems may not be able to help themselves, but for the majority of kids, they are being brats because of a lack of discipline. I am not saying beat kids, but a good spanking is something far different, and is what these kids truly need. It is actually a form of neglect and even abuse when parents do not discipline their kids. It helps them become balanced adults and young adults instead of the me-first, entitlement-oriented ones we see so often today

  • PerfectMother

    Thanks for shining a light on parents who let their children do whatever the heck they please! Drives me bananas. Boy, I can’t wait to see what charming humans these kids will be when they reach adulthood. Sat in church last week and listened to the woman behind me having lengthy discussions with her 6-yr-old son about everything EXCEPT theology or what was happening in church — and not remotely in a whisper. PARENTS: It really IS ok to shush your child or even sternly tell them to sit down and be quiet! I have two early teen boys and while not perfect, they know how to behave in public, on planes and in hotels because their parents taught them early on to be considerate of others. And, dare I admit it, we occasionally said “NO.”

  • Julie Northrop2009

    I remember one time I was flying to Ohio when a mother and her 2 young children were not seated next to each other.  I was the one in their row who was keeping them separated. She asked me politely if I would mind switching seats so they all could sit together.  Since it was a window seat, a requirement for me to fly and not have a panic attack, I obliged.  Everything was fine until we took off. From that point on her little boy proceeded to kick my chair over and over. I asked the lady politely to have her kids stop.  She looked at me like I grew two heads.  Again, the kicking started and again I asked the mom to make him stop.  She said that I would have to deal with it, he’s bored. I warned her if he kept it up I would get the flight attendant involved.  After he started again, I turned around, looked him squarely in the eye and told him very loudly to KNOCK IT OFF.  The mother got mad at me, so I got the flight attendant and let her know I switched seats with this childs so the mom could sit with her entire family, but her son has been kicking me non stop since we took off and I would like to have my original seat back.  She made the little boy switch places with me.  When the mother complained that she couldn’t be separated from her kids like that, another passenger said that had if she would have just controlled her son in the first place, this never would have happened..

  • Julie Northrop2009

    Barbie,

    My son has Asperger’s Syndrome and anxiety disorders, yet he is extremely well mannered while on a plane.  When he was very little, yes I had a hard time keeping him entertained, but I did so. I worked very hard with him so that he would not become a hinderance to other passengers like you who dislike children.  His only issues now are when we land as it makes his ears painful. He can be irritable and does cry, but then again if you were in pain I would think you’d do the same.
    If a parent tries to comfort, calm and/or entertain their children I have no problem with them being on a plane. It’s when they act out and the parents say or do nothing that makes it unbearable.  There are times in life, where we have no alternative but to put ourselves in a position that may bother someone else.  It’s called life, and sometimes we just have to roll with the punches.

  • HistoryNerd

    Frankly, as someone with ADHD who NEVER had any problems behaving on a plane or anywhere else as a child, I find your post incredibly insulting, Barbie.  We are not less than you.  We are not any less entitled to fly than you.   And for the record, ADHD is NOT a “severe emotional problem.”  If you knew anything about the disorder, you’d know that.  ADHD kids are perfectly capable of behaving and not every kid who behaves like a brat has ADHD.  Sometimes a brat is just a brat.  Heck, I’d rather have ADHD than be a bigot like you.

  • Sadie Cee

    Your post was somewhat harsh and judgmental, don’t you think?

    Children under a certain age do not instinctively know the difference between an airline cabin and the rec room at home. We expect that their parents know the difference and will take the time and have the patience to teach their children how to behave outside the home.    Children have to be taught to respect the rights of others.  It is not an easy task but it is essential.

    Many of us have done our jobs of raising children who are respectful and respected members of the community.  It was difficult and was not done overnight, but we persevered.

    Having children run amok anywhere but on a playground is neither desirable nor civil behaviour.  We have to hold the parents responsible.  The parent described above whose child was on the floor and later in the seat of another passenger while she was engrossed in her laptop is clearly not fulfilling her parental role. 

    Those days are long gone, but when I flew with my children at ages below age 8, they were well dressed and behaved admirably.  Invariably  they and all other children on the flight were invited by an FA to go up to the cockpit to meet the captain and be shown around.  I don’t expect that it would be possible for this to occur nowadays, but it is distressing to hear of some of the experiences narrated above.

    Some adults are no better.  Never realized how bad it had become until last year going to Madrid on a flight with students returning home for the summer. We had to endure them blocking the aisles or shouting back and forth to friends several rows behind and in front of them right through the “night.” They sang and cheered loudly and when they left the plane…the areas they occupied were like garbage dumps!!!  They kept the FAs hopping trying to curb their behaviour including attempting to retrieve their carry-ons before the plane had even touched down.  Frightful and frightening!

    I don’t think that airlines are going to have adults-only or children-only flights anytime soon.  Therefore in the meantime, if we are going to enjoy the expected reasonable amount of comfort inflight, we have to call on everyone to do his or her part to ensure that this happens. 

     

  • Beau

    I was seated across the aisle from a couple who had triplets, about 18 months, with them. They were all crying from the pressure changes, etc. and the parents could only hold two at a time (they bought three seats, and held two of the children while one was in a carrier.) I offered to hold one of them for the landing, and you would not believe how grateful the parents were. I would not be doing anything otherwise, and helped an entire 737 full of tourists by spending 20 minutes giving a child a bottle. Sometimes, you need to take a better approach than sullenly swilling your airplane vodka or complaining to the flight attendant.

  • Linda

    It is so very refreshing to hear a parent of 3 be aware of what out of control children can do to an entire flight of well meaning people.  I often take my ipad or computer and have stepped in on more than one occasion to use the games as a diversion for such children.  I raised 4 children and have 2 granchildren and enntitlement is not in my vocabulary.!!  That said, please understand that a child’s ears can hurt or they can feel scared etc.
    It is a true dilemma for all of us who fly.  I can guarantee you that no child would be allowed to pound on my chair or hit me on the head!!
    Linda

  • teacher

    Adding the parents and kids who are horrible to the no fly list is great! I’m sure these same parents would not tolerate such behavior from other children toward them. It would be interesting to know their reactions to uncontrollable children.

  • MTK

    Today’s parents are overly permissive, have an entitlement mentality, and fail to control or discipline their children. Ill-behaved children are everywhere, from fine dining restaurants to first class in planes and expensive resorts. They scream and run up and down the aisles in theaters and churches. Little or no effort is made by the parents to attempt to stop the bad behavior. Stares by those disturbed are met by angry parental eyes. Why do parents today have to take their children evereywhere?  Is there some reason a babysitter cannot be found? Oh, I forgot, pre-teens and teens today don’t need to work as babysitters, since their parents give them all the money their want. How about Grandparents?
     
    Like all baby boomers, I was expected to be quiet and reverant in church, expected to behave appropriately in a restaurant, which included using silverware correctly, be quiet in theaters, be polite, and respect all adults. If I did not behave, there were consequences. I did not fly until I was a high school freshman, and family vacations were vacations to cities, national parks, and historical places, staying at Best Westerns, with long drives in a car that did not have FM radio or A/C, let alone the video systems that parents view as a necessity. My parents frequently went out without me and took vacations without me. My Grandparents baby-sat me. I was often at my Grandmother’s small boutique store while to was open, and I was expected not to bother the customers. I spent weeks at my Grandparents’ summer home which lacked TV reception, but didn’t refuse to go there because of that. I went to charm school and learned good manners and etiquitte. My upbringing taught me to have concern for others and consider how my actions impact others.

    Today’s parents have no concern for others. They chose to have children; they choose not to discipline or control their children, and in the situations where the child is screaming or disruptive, would never think of taking the child and leaving the restaurant, church, or theater.

    I wholly agree with no kids under 12 in first class, in certain restaurants, at at least one movie showing or church service, or at the very least, a “children’s section” in these places. I should not have to have a miserable experience because of these parents and children.

  • Erin

    My children are 21 and 23.  We had one bad flight with my youngest when she was two, fortunately only SD to Phoenix but she straightened out her body and SCREAMED the entire way.  She wanted to walk (and she was always a headstrong child).  There was nothing I could do, I came prepared with everything I could think of.  I have always been deeply aware of the impact of badly behaved children, but in some situations you are just stuck.  Fortunately we sat near a grandfatherly gentleman who kindly took it in stride and was very nice, tried to help (and did a bit).  I have seen so many other parents struggle with this, they are clearly prepared, clearly doing everything in their power.

    THEN there were the ‘other’ parents… the whimpy Dad who sat away from his kids and wife in our row, the Mom and two daughters behind us.  The kids were maybe 5 and 7ish.  They slammed the trays up and down, kicked the seats in front of them, screamed for this and that and the Mom did nothing.  I asked the children in varying degrees of firmness to stop.  I finally (after 4 hours of this) said _very_ firmly (I didn’t yell) ‘You need to STOP and behave yourself.’  The ‘Mom’ (not a parent, bio only) started screaming at me, demanded that the attendant reseat me etc.  Just pitched a fit.  The attendant didn’t know what was going on or what to do, I just ignored the whole thing and finally the Mom moved the kids behind the Dad more and sat behind me herself.  The rest of the flight was OK.  The Dad said nothing the entire time, I think he was terrified of his wife. I would have been.

    I would pay EXTRA for an adults only section.  The extra legroom is nice, the distance from screaming kids would be worth MORE.  The airlines who squeak out every penny are missing a chance here.  I’ve done my time with my kids, on long flights, in nice restaurants… I don’t enjoy the screaming or misbehaving.  I do have sympathy for parents who try, truly.  I get it.  I still don’t want to sit by it.  I have nothing but contempt for those who say ‘I cannot (or won’t) control my children’ and abdicate their parental responsibilities, impacting their children’s lives and the sanity of those around them.  I feel sorry for those children, but get those parents away from all of us!

  • Erin

    My children are 21 and 23.  We had one bad flight with my youngest when she was two, fortunately only SD to Phoenix but she straightened out her body and SCREAMED the entire way.  She wanted to walk (and she was always a headstrong child).  There was nothing I could do, I came prepared with everything I could think of.  I have always been deeply aware of the impact of badly behaved children, but in some situations you are just stuck.  Fortunately we sat near a grandfatherly gentleman who kindly took it in stride and was very nice, tried to help (and did a bit).  I have seen so many other parents struggle with this, they are clearly prepared, clearly doing everything in their power.

    THEN there were the ‘other’ parents… the whimpy Dad who sat away from his kids and wife in our row, the Mom and two daughters behind us.  The kids were maybe 5 and 7ish.  They slammed the trays up and down, kicked the seats in front of them, screamed for this and that and the Mom did nothing.  I asked the children in varying degrees of firmness to stop.  I finally (after 4 hours of this) said _very_ firmly (I didn’t yell) ‘You need to STOP and behave yourself.’  The ‘Mom’ (not a parent, bio only) started screaming at me, demanded that the attendant reseat me etc.  Just pitched a fit.  The attendant didn’t know what was going on or what to do, I just ignored the whole thing and finally the Mom moved the kids behind the Dad more and sat behind me herself.  The rest of the flight was OK.  The Dad said nothing the entire time, I think he was terrified of his wife. I would have been.

    I would pay EXTRA for an adults only section.  The extra legroom is nice, the distance from screaming kids would be worth MORE.  The airlines who squeak out every penny are missing a chance here.  I’ve done my time with my kids, on long flights, in nice restaurants… I don’t enjoy the screaming or misbehaving.  I do have sympathy for parents who try, truly.  I get it.  I still don’t want to sit by it.  I have nothing but contempt for those who say ‘I cannot (or won’t) control my children’ and abdicate their parental responsibilities, impacting their children’s lives and the sanity of those around them.  I feel sorry for those children, but get those parents away from all of us!

  • Nsg

    There is another option. Get a sitter and leave your brat at home

  • Doctor K.

    Maybe?  Why wasn’t this done years ago?  Paying the family of the kid who screamed so mus is worse than paying a ransom.  Where were the cahones of the airline execs. who approved this payout?  How can they have kids if such beaviors are acceptable.  Maybe if all the passengers–except those wih the screaming kinds got off (or asked to pilot to land at the nearest airport) so they could land and hear again. And then these passengars demand an nw flight! Build an enclosed quiet playpen area at the back of each plane & put the screaming ninjas and their parents inside.  Ban parents of noisy chilldren from flying again with their broods. Or al least distribute ear plugs to the others. Both adults &  childfren will get away with anything until the airlines take corrective action Why hasn’t the FAA taken action against the naughty actos?  This noise will continue until they do.

  • Ejordan1110

    I see it all the time in public.  Some parents are so use to letting their kids run around and misbehave in public and fail to control them.  Then the kids are put in a confined area, like a plane and the parents think they will behave.  Why would they think so, they do not any other time.  Then you have the group of people who think this is acceptable and will come to the defense of the parents and children.  I think it is a case where a few bad parents make more noise than the good parents and those affected by the kids.  I know this may rub some people the wrong way, but I don’t have to aid a parent with numerous kids.  If I choose to do so it is my choice.  I see many people in public areas or traveling alone with several small children and expect everyone to help them with the children. 

  • Ejordan1110

    I see it all the time in public.  Some parents are so use to letting their kids run around and misbehave in public and fail to control them.  Then the kids are put in a confined area, like a plane and the parents think they will behave.  Why would they think so, they do not any other time.  Then you have the group of people who think this is acceptable and will come to the defense of the parents and children.  I think it is a case where a few bad parents make more noise than the good parents and those affected by the kids.  I know this may rub some people the wrong way, but I don’t have to aid a parent with numerous kids.  If I choose to do so it is my choice.  I see many people in public areas or traveling alone with several small children and expect everyone to help them with the children. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=530479200 Dana Scheider

    I’m in my 20s and am disheartened to see my peers having children and overwhelmingly having this attitude that their kids are perfect and deserve to be spoiled (bragging about spoiling your children? really?) and expect everyone to feel the same way. I’ve never had an interest in other people’s kids or having any of my own and I’m constantly getting the “child hater” treatment from people who think indifference to their little darlings is some sort of a crime.

    I see complaints about the “entitlement mentality” getting abused all the time to shut down people with legitimate problems, but I really don’t get the entitlement mentality of a lot of parents.

  • Mom

    Excuse me?  How dare you. Brat?  Really?  Obviously you have no children or if you do you shouldn’t!  Actually with that attitude finding someone to have a child with is probably a problem so we’re all safe.

     My 9 yr old has been flying since she was 6 months old.  (I’ve always paid for a seat. I don’t believe in lap children on flights.  Not safe!) She has, so far, flown 18-20 times.  We had one time when she was quite small where we had a bad flight segment.  A really bad flight.  I was the Mom freaking out trying to do everything possible to calm my kid. Trust me on this that it bothered me more than it would you.  As she has grown she has been taught to respect other passengers.  (is she perfect?  No way.  I’ve never been the parent who says “not my kid!”  I know her too well.  You however do not!)  I still have to sometimes remind not to kick a seat or talk too loud etc.  Remind her once.  That is all it usually takes. 

    I feel for the parents of infants or toddlers who find themselves in this situation.  People like you don’t help any.  Kids can tell when a parent is going nuts and the comments or looks from people with this type of attitude make the parents even more frantic which in turn doesn’t help to calm the child. 

    My pet peeve is the older kids (pre or teens) who slam trays, kick seats, jump around and the parents just sit there or are sound asleep.  Even in this case I wouldn’t blame the kid…although I have given some good looks to both them and their lovely parents)  It’s the parents responsibility to teach these kids how to behave in public. 

    My other pet peeve is someone who can hide behind a computer and call every child out there a brat.  How about if you don’t like it then YOU should stay home?

  • Mom

    YOUR plane?  When I see the bill of sale I’ll be sure to keep my child off YOUR plane…

  • Mom

    What do you have against ADD kids?  First of all hyperactivity is ADHD not ADD.  That would be attention deficit HYPERACTIVITY disorder.  Either way what is your issue with these kids?  Not all crying infants or misbehaving kids have ADD or ADHD.   BTW my daughter has ADD.  You would not even know she is there if she was sitting next to you.  Not only do we make sure there is enough to entertain her but also she has been taught how to behave. 

    If you know you dislike flying with children….especially if you are flying out of FL then I suggest you find a more sanitary way to travel.

    I so agree with the comment above about adults.  As an ex-travel agent and now just a traveling Mom I’ve found more issues on flights with adults than any kids!  If they ever allow cell phones on planes…UGG I don’t even want to think about it! 

    Kids can be taught.  Adults…not so much!

  • Projections2001

    The next time you find yourself the unlucky victim of a seat kicker, ask the attendant for a cup of water. At the next, unexpected kick, allow the “surprise” to jolt you enough to have the water go flying into the little rugbrat’s seat behind you!

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