Who pays for a Disney cruise wrecked by Norwalk virus?

I think they may be able to get by using the phrase “Beyond the control of the carrier”. After all, if over 200 ppl were sick, they obviously had an issue that was more than just the one cabin.

Regardless, I’m happy she got her $$ back. Lesson learned, pay by CC on the final payment date. Leave wiggle room for possible disputes.

Chris,
I don’t agree. I really feel for the family but how is it Disney’s fault that they became ill during the cruise. She offered no evidence that Disney’s actions or failure to act caused their illnes. In fact, I have seen the CDC quoted in other Norwalk stories that there is little a cruise line could do to stop the outbreak and all they can do once it starts is what they did (confine sick people to their rooms). Her own story seems to indicate that Disney did all they could for the group changing biohazard bedding etc.

By her own admission, she had trip insurance. She should have filed a claim with them for the amount of the cruise. That’s what it’s there for.

Your final paragraph sums it up. The contract she agreed to stated that they were not responsible for her getting sick.

These virus outbreaks seem to be commonplace these days? Has this always been the case on cruise ships, just not widely reported? If not, why is it so common now?

Isn’t this poster worried Disney will ruin her credit rating?

I agree with John and Lianne.

The customer should be liable for the remaining balance. The “fine print” clearly says the cruise line is not responsible for illness. There is no evidence that the Norwalk virus is from Disney negligence. I thought the 15% discount was reasonable compensation.

I leave for my Disney land/sea vacation tomorrow and I’m looking forward to every minute.

Actually, the outbreak was obviously due to the “NEGLIGENCE OF THE CARRIER OR ITS EMPLOYEES ACTING WITHIN THE COURSE AND SCOPE OF EMPLOYMENT” – so Disney doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Every case of these outbreaks at sea are usually due to negligence on the part of the kitchen and serving staffs.

There is a lot of legal misanalysis going on here. As an attorney, here is my $0.02. The language that Chris quoted refers to is a standard consequential damages waiver. That means, for example, if you get sick, and miss an important meeting, the cruise line is not responsible. However, it has no bearing on whether Disney should refund the money. I recently prevailed on a similar issue three times in court over a very similiarly worded contract.

The plane analogy is flawed. In an airplane, the destination is the goal. In a cruise ship, the voyage is the goal. So it’s an apples to oranges comparison. However, even under the analogy, if the airplane was responsible for you getting sick, say they served tainted food, a refund might very well be a proper compensation.

So basically, one legal question is, was Disney at fault for the outbreak. Since Disney is the one in possession of the relevant records, e.g. compliance logs, medical records, etc., the onus is properly on Disney to make the prima facie case that it took reasonable precautions to prevent such an outbreak.

However, even if Disney is not at fault, Disney isn’t entitled to the money. Fault is only one issue of attack. The other one is that Disney did not deliver a proper cruise. A ship of 200+ sick and quarantined people, included reduced staff, and most likely reduced services, is not a proper cruise. Who would purchase a cruise, knowing that the ship was infected with Norovirus and 200+ sick people. No one. As such Disney failed to deliver the product, even if its not Disney’s fault.

One thing that people need to remember when reading the legal disclaimer is that just because a company says it isn’t responsible for X, Y and Z doesn’t necessarily make it so. If a company has done something wrong, call them on it, don’t just give up because they say they are clear of liability.

THANK YOU, CARTER, for some common sense. I do not understand the people above who say the family should have to pay when OBVIOUSLY Disney employees were at fault for the Norwalk virus due to insufficient hygiene.

If a passenger on a plane contracts food poisoning from plane food or a guest at a hotel gets food poisoning from the hotel, you would expect some kind of compensation, e.g., comped flight, meal or stay. If on top of food poisoning caused by food at the hotel, you were left ill for days, unable to go to important meetings, building on the example given by John F, then more than the hotel room should be comped in my estimation (although the likelihood of that happening are nil). Purveyors of cruises should be responsible for providing a safe environment. Events like this should be on the front page of newspaper travel sections and easily accessible to travelers. Thanks, Chris, for posting this one.

Good job, John! We often forget that we don’t have to roll over just because a company put it into their legalese. Lots of companies put illegal language into their contracts assuming people will read it and assume that makes it legal. But just because it’s in the contract doesn’t make it enforceable in court. Check out your average home rental contract sometime for proof.

I highly, highly doubt that Disney was at fault for this. Norwalk is spread through surface contamination and PERSONAL hygiene. Disney, or any other cruise line, cannot be there to ensure that every single passenger washes their hands before eating. Disney cannot wipe down every single surface as soon as a passenger has touched it to ensure no contamination can occur. All it takes is one infected person walking along and touching a handrail, a doorknob, a serving spoon and for the next person to touch that same thing and then eat without washing their hands, or touch a piece of gum or candy with their hands and then put it in their mouth. What of that is within Disney’s control? As someone who has been on a Disney ship I can tell you that surfaces are wiped down frequently, one might even say constantly. There are hand sanitizers in the food areas. It’s up to the passengers to make use of them.

A food server was seen coming out of the doctor’s office – so? There’s no mention in the letter of the server going back on duty afterward. Crew aren’t immune to Norwalk. And since the server was seen leaving the office after many other people were sick it seems likely that he/she became sick after others and was not the cause.

And while the passengers may not have enjoyed their cruise, there’s no evidence that Disney failed to deliver it. If it rained all the time that wouldn’t be within Disney’s control and it would impact some shipboard activities and I’m sure the passengers wouldn’t have had as good a time but it wouldn’t entitle them to a full refund. What about cruises where something tragic has happened, like a death or someone going overboard? I’m sure that impacts all kinds of things like service and mood but I don’t think cruise lines are held accountable for that and made to give full refunds to the passengers.

Yes there was a viral outbreak, most likely caused by a passenger. Yes 200 or so were sick – full capacity on a Disney ship is 2400 so even at 2000 guests that’s 10% or so that were sick. Which means 90% of the passengers weren’t sick. Disney takes their cleanliness and hygiene very seriously – they wipe down surfaces, they provide hand gel, they quarantined those affected. So how is it their fault that someone got sick, and why should they have to bear the financial costs for it?

@carver Sorry, but I have to disagree. What if the passenger sitting next to you on the plane was the one that got you sick? Is the airline still responsible for that? If a fellow passenger on a cruise ship comes aboard infected with the Norwalk virus, the cruise line cannot be held responsible for the outbreak. This virus spreads like wildfire, not only on cruise ships, but in schools, offices and any other place where people are in close contact with each other. As someone else pointed out, that the virus was kept in check so that it was only a small percentage of those onboard that were affected says something about the cruise line’s good efforts to sanitize. (I think the percentage would be lower than the 11% quoted because some of those infected may have been crew.) The cruise line did, in fact, operate the cruise as planned. The ship sailed, food and entertainment were provided, ports were visited. Following your logic, I would go back to the example of a cruise that is affected by bad weather. Well over 200 passengers in really rough seas could conceivably be confined to their cabins due to seasickness. There would be reduced services because of the weather. I’ve been on cruises where the weather was so bad that we were not allowed outside. I’ve also been on cruises where pools had to be closed due to the turbulent seas. Who would choose to go on a cruise knowing that the weather would be horrible and ports would have to be missed because the ship couldn’t dock? None of us, I’m sure, but unfortunately nobody, including the cruise lines, can predict the future. By your logic, the cruise line would have to refund passengers because, even though they cannot control the weather, they somehow failed to deliver the product.

We’re skating on thin ice here. As someone else said, if cruise lines are going to have to refund the cruise fare because of Noro outbreaks on ships (Noro outbreaks that for the most part are caused by passengers who bring the bug onboard with them) expect to see cruise fares jump up in order to cover these costs. In the end, it all will come out of our pockets anyway.

@Sam

I don’t think you quite caught my post as it was more of a series of questions than answers. For example, I ask whether Disney could have done more to prevent the spread of the disease. If yes, the Disney has culpability. Regarding your pool analogy, a pool is a relatively small portion of a cruise, all things considered.

What needs to be understood is that just because something isn’t your fault, doesn’t mean that you don’t have to give a refund. For example, if I hire a limosine and prepay it. If the limo doesn’t arrive, through no fault of the owner or driver, they still owe me a refund. If however, the AC isn’t working, then perhaps not, unless if summer in Las Vegas.

Or consider your weather related example. Let’s say that the cruise ship couldn’t leave its home port because of the weather. It had to stay put for the entire anticipated duraction of the trip. I would hope to get a full refund as I got NOTHING from my money. In that case Disney failed to deliver through no fault of its own.

The question is, did Disney ultimately deliver substantively all of what was promised, whether explicitly or implicitly?

Conditions on their ship ruined the vacation.
They should have to refund all monies paid, all expenses going to and from the vacation, including hotel, meals, airfare and parking.

They should also have to pay for the wages for that period of time so that the affected vacationer can get additional vacation time since they used theirs up to go on a boat with a bunch of sick people.

Don’t think this is fair? The cost of a vacation is much more than what gets paid to some cruise line, and if they ruin it, they should have to pay for ALL of the costs involved. That still doesn’t take into account pain and suffering.

If it “doesn’t happen that often” then the insurance to provide these reimbursibles shouldn’t cost all that much. And if it does happen quite often, there is something different that needs to be done on these ships.

Bill: In a sea of pretty much intelligent comments from both sides of the issue, your post stands out as supremely idiotic!

A friend is an epidemiologist with a county Public Health Dept. She explained it in detail a few years ago. Noro is widespread and common on land, you spend a few miserable days at home and that’s it. People don’t go to work, the mall, school, etc. and that prevents the spread which happens easily.

On cruise ships my friend said that “patient zero” usually catches noro on land and brings it aboard. The cruise ship environment and people refusing to confine themselves to their cabin really promotes the spread. She’s amazed that cruise ships manage to control the spread of Noro as well as they do. It’s apparently very virulent.

People come ON to the ship with the virus . . . it has been shown repeatedly that the virus comes on to the ship and is spread by the close confines and the stupid buffets that collect germs. EVERYONE knows the buffets are where the germs get spread.

Do yourself a favor – never eat at a buffet on a ship. If you eat in the dining room every meal you are many times less likely to get sick. Eating in the dining room allows control of both calories consumed and contact with sick people and contaminated food.

Or – STOP TAKING CRUISES. They are expensive, subject to being nickel and dimed for everything, its getting worse, and they have zero tolerance for any problems, since, according to their own contracts, they never have problems on their cruises – its all the passengers fault.

I have told my cruisers to make sure they use their little finger to press elevator buttons as the more I thought about it I know thousands of people are pushing the same buttons (and heaven only knows where their fingers had been) It would be even better to use a tissue to press buttons.
Now if they could nail down the amount of people who get sick from AIRLINES as people breathe the same air that all are coughing and sneezing in, we would really be amazed but there is no way to get information on this.
No, sorry, I do not think people should get a refund. (Who knows? Maybe they got it from the airplane they arrived in.)
PS I had heard of a group of 90 people arriving from overseas to cruise…Guess who got sick? They did. Hmmmm. (Remember there is no way to check if other people became ill after a flight)

It doesn’t matter if it’s Disney or any other cruise line. They did what they’re supposed to do. THEY acted in a responsible manner. It’s the other passengers that don’t. Unless you want the cruise lines to start hiring crew at a 1:1 ratio so they can follow passengers around and make them act responsibly then I don’t see what else they can do. They sanitize things as best as they are able to. They provide sanitizing gel for passengers to use (and some don’t). They quarantine those that are infected (that they know of). How many don’t bother seeking medical attention because they don’t want to spend their cruise in the cabin and keep on spreading it instead? How many times have you heard someone say that they’re not feeling 100% but nothing’s going to stop them from going on that vacation? Why is the cruise line to be held resonsible for the irresponsibilty of other people?

Norovirus and the possibility of it are everywhere. They’ve got sanitizing wipes at the grocery store so you can disinfect the carts now. I got a Norovirus a few years back on a bus tour, more than half the bus became sick. One passenger later mentioned that she hadn’t been feeling well when she got on the bus but didn’t want to miss the trip so she didn’t say anything. No doubt other people at the destination became sick because she spread it as she went along. So for those people who happened to be at the destination but weren’t on the bus, does that mean they can get a full refund because someone brought the virus there?

I’m not making excuses for Disney at all. I’m wondering what happened to personal responsibility. I’m sorry their Disney cruise didn’t turn out the way they wanted it to. 90% of the passengers continued to enjoy the food and entertainment and other ship offerings. No one is going to get a guarantee that their vacation is going to be perfect. We’d all love it to be, but sometimes things happen. Illness happens. And chances are if the passengers in the article had been vigilent about washing or sanitizing their hands before putting ANYTHING in or near their mouths they wouldn’t have gotten sick. So why should the cruise line be held financially liable when although THEY did everything reasonable they could to prevent the spread of the virus it’s clear that the passengers, including these ones, did not.

I’m telling you, all it takes is having it once and you will never, ever look at another candy dish or surface the same again. All it takes is one brief touch to get the virus on your hands and then using them to put something in your mouth or wipe your mouth without washing them and you can be in for some serious downtime. Or if someone else with the virus was in that candy dish before you and you happen to pick up one that they touched. The virus spreads so easily, it’s shocking.

Life sucks sometimes, that doesn’t mean that you get to sue or get a refund for it not being perfect.

I think it’s ironic that all the personal responsibility advocates (aka corporate apologists) seem to be lacking in their own reading and comprehension skills.

Couldn’t you better defend Disney (or whatever corporation) if you first read carefully and understood the complaint? Instead you skim through paragraphs with lightning speed and then post a knee-jerk reaction comment calling the complainant an idiot.

I see it time and time again in the comment areas of Chris’s site. Usually there is evidence in your comment that you didn’t completely read the complaint. You get key facts wrong, then wonder why nobody buys into your conclusion.

I think this kind of attitude is indicative that one has limited experience going outside of their little life bubble….meeting new people, seeing new places, trying new things. Try getting out more. It can change your perspective on life and the world in a positive way!

Regarding the physical difficulties of the virus with respect to the bedding and having to choose between “sitting or leaning over the toilet:” haven’t these cruise ships heard of disposable bed pads and emesis basins? They’re a cheap investment in good will toward ill passengers as well as time-saving for the staff. Having those would have made the Branhams much more comfortable and would have eliminated some of the nightmare they now associate with Disney cruises.