I encourage readers who are passionate to speak up at the public forum being organized in Washington DC. Go here for details:

http://stakeholderhearing.eventbrite.com/

Cheers

Firstly there are laws in place and compensation amounts. Don’t let the airlines tell you otherwise.
Now there is a move to get the legislation re-written to make it more clear. Europe has a great set of rules and the airlines no abide by them quite easily. So there can be no excuses. There are even companies who monitor compliance.
If you are willing to stand up and be counted – go to this website and check out the event in DC in September: http://stakeholderhearing.eventbrite.com/

Cheers

1. Start singing “1 Million Bottles of Beer on the Wall.” Arrest me for singing? I don’t think so.

2. Fake chest pains. I’ll be deplaned fast, then I’ll refuse treatment. No one can legally compel me to get back on the plane or go to a hospital.

The pilot, ultimately, is in control of all decisions for the aircraft but works with FAA air traffic controllers in the tower — not the airport — to gain direction and approval on where and when to taxi and then obtain clearance to take off. The airport role is providing services to the aircraft while at the gate, handling construction and removal of debris from runways, etc., and, when necessary, closing an airport due to a snowstorm or something. But the airport isn’t the one directing ground movements of aircraft. That’s air traffic controllers, who are Federal Aviation Administration federal employees, not airport employees. Don’t mean to be too simplistic if you already knew this but I wanted to clarify.

The point made earlier about whether it was better to withstand a long delay while out on the airport tarmac or parked at the gate with access to leave the airplane and go into the terminal is an interesting issue. There IS currently legislation in Congress (part of an FAA reauthorization bill) — approved by the House and awaiting a Senate floor vote — that provides for a passenger bill of rights. But the airlines are opposed to this and say that it would remove the ability of the pilot to ultimately get the aircraft off the ground. The airlines argue that while nobody wants to see any multi-hour delays, if you knew there was a chance you could finally get off the ground in a reasonable amount of time after a long delay trapped onboard, wouldn’t you want to do that instead of returning to the gate and removing any chance of an imminent departure?

When an aircraft returns to the gate, they’re removed from the line because there’s no way to really know who left the line when and where they deserve to get put back if they want to return. Controllers have a complex and difficult job as it is and most busy airports at certain times wouldn’t have enough concrete to allow such aircraft movements to happen anyway. It’s not like a deli at a supermarket, where if you get a number and you know you’re x number of places away from the front, you could go off and shop in other parts of the store and then return to the deli and not get skipped.

Hope this helps. Available for questions and information anytime about the air traffic control system.

Doug Church
Director of Communications
National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA)
dchurch@natcadc.org

The 2-hour delay in the gate area was no problem. Freedom to move about, etc. Then, 2 hours on the tarmac. The FA was great. She had saved all the unopened packaged muffins from the morning flight and handed them out to all who asked, along with water. The bathroom was free to use until we were to leave.

Then the announcement: We were going back to the gate to let anyone who wanted to leave get off. However, anyone leaving would not be allowed back on. Don’t know why. Then I realized that we really went back to refuel, but, hey, who wants to quibble? Some people did debark. After refueling, we went back to wait some more. Another hour and a half more. This time the FA (always in good humor) did a proper beverage service, saying that when in the air, it might get too turbulent to give out the drinks and nuts. Bathroom privileges were never revoked while we were stationary.

Finally, we were good to go, but we did spend an extra hour in the air, circling the airport. In the end, I was sorry I had taken advantage of a weekend saver to visit family. Still, thanks to the way Continental and especially the FA handled the “imprisonment,” it was not a horrifying experience. I will not desert Amtrak again to make this trip.

Between NYC and Syracuse, I would have definitely taken the train. Weather delays are few and the legroom and freedom to move about cannot compare!

Well, as I said, I don’t know exactly how airports work, but this statement is clearly NOT true. The airport controls the flow of traffic around the airport — it’s not like a public road. An plane is not allowed to just drive around the airport w/o permission from control. Again, I’m not sure exactly what the controls are, but it’s clearly not totally in the pilot’s hands.

Is there anyone here who actually works at an airport that can shed some real light on this question?

@JoeF: Would calling 911 really work? Is being on a plane for a period really constitute an emergency? Don’t get me wrong, I totally agree that this is ridiculous, but is calling 911 going to make anything happen? And would someone get charged with false 911 calls?

Call 911 – make sure you have a flight attendant around. They’ll go right back to the gate.

@Noah – no – the airport has no control over the decision of the pilot in command. Also remember the way union contracts work, the pilots and flight attendants get paid for sitting on the ramp – there is no incentive there. The airlines lease the gates and have complete control over access to them.

As for getting off in AVP – the airline has portable stairs – and ANY jetway would allow access to an A320. Jetblue just has no gates at AVP =hence the problem with access to the airport.

@Wayne – if they cancel the flight they are cancelling two flights – the flight from SYR to LGA the next day – so – everything costs double.

Want a simple workable rule for this? Here you go:

In the event an airline becomes aware of a delay or the likely potential for a ground delay in excess of sixty minutes following closing of the aircraft door for departure and informing Air Traffic Control of being ready for taxi , the airline shall immediately inform passengers on said flight, provide access to debarking or similar services within 30 minutes of being informed of said delay in the event 10% or ten passengers wish to debark said aircraft, whichever is greater, and shall be liable for payment to each passenger delayed on board an aircraft after 90 minutes in an amount of $2 cash compensation per minute of delay with zero maximum iin the event the airline does not take off or return to the gate within 120 minutes of the scheduled departure time.”

such a rule forces airlines to be proactive in their resolution of ground delays. $120 per hour cash compensation after 2 hours for 140 people adds up pretty quick – they’ll put rules in place pretty quick as well.

Does this sort of thing happen anywhere else except the United States, or only in the United States?

I too am surprised at Jet Blue since they seemed to make such a fuss last time when they were criticized. Don’t think for a moment that I have forgotten their previous antics and I won’t forget this one.

There needs to be some substantial penalties for holding passengers like this.

Easy answer. I’d much rather wait in the Airport for 5 hours plus, rather than on the airplane. At the airport there are sufficient bathrooms, food and drink for purchase, the ability to walk around, stretch out, use the internet, etc. Yeah, for me its a no-brainer, even if it means possibly spending the night in an unexpected city. Just as long as I can get the distressed passenger hotel rate.