Comments on: “A lot of ‘experts’ are counting us out – but like all of you, I can’t wait to prove them wrong again” http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/ The travel troubleshooter. Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:38:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: US Airways Now Charges for Bottled Water - What Next? | Travel Tattles http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13838 US Airways Now Charges for Bottled Water - What Next? | Travel Tattles Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:54:59 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-13838 [...] US Airways is now charging for soft drinks.  That includes bottled water.  Yes, bottled water.  The airline is completely unapologetic about the new charge. “We’ve chosen to be more aggressive than our competitors,” Doug Parker, the airline’s chief executive, told his employees in an internal memo. [...] [...] US Airways is now charging for soft drinks.  That includes bottled water.  Yes, bottled water.  The airline is completely unapologetic about the new charge. “We’ve chosen to be more aggressive than our competitors,” Doug Parker, the airline’s chief executive, told his employees in an internal memo. [...]

]]> By: William http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13751 William Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:51:41 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-13751 I'm wondering just how much it costs to provide free water on a flight? Seems penny-wise and pound foolish to create so much ill will. I suspect losing one customer out of every dozen flights is a much greater expense than the cost of the water...or is it? Folks like Doug Parker only know one thing..."cut expenses at any cost". Anybody heard of an airline CEO doing things to INCREASE business? I guess the economy of scale simply doesn't work when it is a foregone conclusion that every customer represents a loss. Parker's cure is apparently to cut back the number of flights and alienate the customers until he has none. What is their plan for when they are shed of that nagging fuel cost problem because they have no more planes? Something suggests to me that the 'downward' style of management has a lot more to do with the ailments of many large companies, not just airlines, than does the cost of fuel. If it costs more to fly then raise the fares. Period. Mistreating customers for the sake of a few pennies of 'water expense' is a very poor business model and will hardly do anything perceptible at the bottom line. I’m wondering just how much it costs to provide free water on a flight? Seems penny-wise and pound foolish to create so much ill will. I suspect losing one customer out of every dozen flights is a much greater expense than the cost of the water…or is it?

Folks like Doug Parker only know one thing…”cut expenses at any cost”.

Anybody heard of an airline CEO doing things to INCREASE business? I guess the economy of scale simply doesn’t work when it is a foregone conclusion that every customer represents a loss. Parker’s cure is apparently to cut back the number of flights and alienate the customers until he has none. What is their plan for when they are shed of that nagging fuel cost problem because they have no more planes?

Something suggests to me that the ‘downward’ style of management has a lot more to do with the ailments of many large companies, not just airlines, than does the cost of fuel.

If it costs more to fly then raise the fares. Period. Mistreating customers for the sake of a few pennies of ‘water expense’ is a very poor business model and will hardly do anything perceptible at the bottom line.

]]> By: Genaro Garcia Mandriotti http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13401 Genaro Garcia Mandriotti Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:54:38 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-13401 These things we all claim that used to be "free" during a flight, were never free in the first place. No business gives anything away for free. It was always included somewhere into the cost of the ticket. Airlines were looking for a way to charge for these things and the low-cost, no frills airlines got the flying public more used to this tactic. What we got was the same service with more fees. Why? More and more folks are doing their own searches online for flights. These flights can be searched in a few ways, but the most basic manner in which we all look for a flight is by the price. Yea, I am flexible, I can fly early, etc...but what catches the eye is the base price of the flight. Many search engines won't even provide the final price until you buy it and that is where the fine print is found. Airlines have employees that work the fare structures all day long. They also have people working to see the consumer buying habits and why he buy what we buy. The common guy doesn't have the time or give enough effort to really look for the best deals and considering how airlines come up with these fares. Heck, if you really look, you can find a first class ticket that is cheaper than a coach class ticket. Go figure. I'd only hope and really expect a standardization of fare structures. Let the public compare apples to apples and not this price system we all enjoy today. Buying an airline ticket is like buying a used car. Some re-regulation may be needed, but since when do any of us believe the government to be more efficient that private industry. Deregulation provided one basic business idea, that a business, an airline, can fail. In this case, deregulation is working as planned. But before we can consider more regulation, maybe Congress would try to finally pass a national aviation plan. Funny how that never seems to get accomplished. These things we all claim that used to be “free” during a flight, were never free in the first place. No business gives anything away for free. It was always included somewhere into the cost of the ticket.

Airlines were looking for a way to charge for these things and the low-cost, no frills airlines got the flying public more used to this tactic. What we got was the same service with more fees. Why?

More and more folks are doing their own searches online for flights. These flights can be searched in a few ways, but the most basic manner in which we all look for a flight is by the price. Yea, I am flexible, I can fly early, etc…but what catches the eye is the base price of the flight. Many search engines won’t even provide the final price until you buy it and that is where the fine print is found.

Airlines have employees that work the fare structures all day long. They also have people working to see the consumer buying habits and why he buy what we buy. The common guy doesn’t have the time or give enough effort to really look for the best deals and considering how airlines come up with these fares. Heck, if you really look, you can find a first class ticket that is cheaper than a coach class ticket. Go figure.

I’d only hope and really expect a standardization of fare structures. Let the public compare apples to apples and not this price system we all enjoy today. Buying an airline ticket is like buying a used car.

Some re-regulation may be needed, but since when do any of us believe the government to be more efficient that private industry. Deregulation provided one basic business idea, that a business, an airline, can fail. In this case, deregulation is working as planned. But before we can consider more regulation, maybe Congress would try to finally pass a national aviation plan. Funny how that never seems to get accomplished.

]]> By: John http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12712 John Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:28:03 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-12712 I disagree with Robert Johnson that we should register our complaints against US Airways to keep them at the bottom of the satisfaction list. This issue is much bigger than just one airline - it is about the entire airline industry. We need to complain about poor service on every airline so that all their ratings go down. We are somewhat of a captive audience and the airlines know it. Voting with our dollars is only possible to some degree since we all have to travel. The only remaining way seems to be to complain so much that the government has to step in and do something. Or maybe the shareholders will revolt. Or something... But to simply pick on one airline will do nothing to stop the overall problem and dearth of good management and common sense. I disagree with Robert Johnson that we should register our complaints against US Airways to keep them at the bottom of the satisfaction list. This issue is much bigger than just one airline – it is about the entire airline industry. We need to complain about poor service on every airline so that all their ratings go down. We are somewhat of a captive audience and the airlines know it. Voting with our dollars is only possible to some degree since we all have to travel. The only remaining way seems to be to complain so much that the government has to step in and do something. Or maybe the shareholders will revolt. Or something… But to simply pick on one airline will do nothing to stop the overall problem and dearth of good management and common sense.

]]> By: James http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12709 James Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:19:34 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-12709 When I fly I always take an aisle seat. I'm going to start charging the inside passengers for access to the aisle. I figure I am basically leasing the space that includes my seat, therefore I should legally be allowed to charge for this access. Let's see how the airlines and their employees handle this. When I fly I always take an aisle seat. I’m going to start charging the inside passengers for access to the aisle. I figure I am basically leasing the space that includes my seat, therefore I should legally be allowed to charge for this access. Let’s see how the airlines and their employees handle this.

]]> By: K. J. http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12703 K. J. Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:39:40 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-12703 You have to look back historically. Before deregulation it was actually pretty pleasant to fly. There were 3 classes of service: First (F), Full fare coach (Y) and B class - provided you were staying over a Saturday night and purchased your ticket at least 7 days in advance. The airlines were profitable and the levels of service were pretty decent. Planes were serviced here in the US and the American mechanics were pretty good at their jobs. Travel agents were paid a flat 8% commission on everything and you could go to an agency and be treated like a valued customer. Deregulation - the need to be cheap and greedy all at once - ruined that for everyone. Now most of the air carriers are hanging on by a fingernail, the planes are serviced outside of the US, the flight attendants are surly, the planes are dirty and now everyone is in a state of shared misery when it comes to traveling. We were the architects of our own demise. Eventually the 'add-ons' will equal what you once would have paid in a regulated environment except that now you will be treated like cattle. BIg cars to guzzle gas, big houses to waste electricity, too much food, too much stuff. This is only the beginning of America's chickens coming home to roost. Think about that the next time you decide to 'supersize' - it's all part of the same problem.... You have to look back historically. Before deregulation it was actually pretty pleasant to fly. There were 3 classes of service: First (F), Full fare coach (Y) and B class – provided you were staying over a Saturday night and purchased your ticket at least 7 days in advance. The airlines were profitable and the levels of service were pretty decent. Planes were serviced here in the US and the American mechanics were pretty good at their jobs. Travel agents were paid a flat 8% commission on everything and you could go to an agency and be treated like a valued customer. Deregulation – the need to be cheap and greedy all at once – ruined that for everyone. Now most of the air carriers are hanging on by a fingernail, the planes are serviced outside of the US, the flight attendants are surly, the planes are dirty and now everyone is in a state of shared misery when it comes to traveling. We were the architects of our own demise. Eventually the ‘add-ons’ will equal what you once would have paid in a regulated environment except that now you will be treated like cattle. BIg cars to guzzle gas, big houses to waste electricity, too much food, too much stuff. This is only the beginning of America’s chickens coming home to roost. Think about that the next time you decide to ’supersize’ – it’s all part of the same problem….

]]> By: Ann Marie http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12654 Ann Marie Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:54:40 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-12654 My boyfriend and I had a discussion about this last night, and this is what we have come up with (and posted on CraigsList Rants and Raves before realizing it was on this site as well): For those of you who fly a lot and even those who don't, a crisis in the way you will fly is on the way. First off, we start with airlines downsizing and reducing everything from staff to where they fly and when. This happens to do 2 things. First- it reduces the number of available seats causing a spike in price per seat and secondly it puts many people out of work who got some of these airlines to where they are today. Next we run into more price hikes all in the name of "fuel prices souring". We have checked baggage at $15 per piece, charges for crackers and sodas that were once free, charges for weight of baggage, size etc. It's been reported on several occasions that many of the airlines pay less for their jet fuel then we as Americans pay for a gallon of gasoline for our cars. So my question is this, how can these airlines charge higher fares and charge for baggage and grossly overpricing and call it in the name of "fuel prices souring" when they pay less for their fuel then we do to gas up our cars? The airlines are going to eventually price themselves out of the market shutting down more airlines and job losses to hard working Americans. This whole process will end up in the same situation of the pre-Amtrak days when passenger rail line priced themselves out and were eventually taken over by the US Government. Eventually, the Government will have no choice then to buy out airlines and consolidate. This will bring prices under control, since they will be a government subsidiary and will have to answer to Congress on price changes. Mark my word- this will happen unless the industry works together and fixes the issues without grossly over charging customers. My boyfriend and I had a discussion about this last night, and this is what we have come up with (and posted on CraigsList Rants and Raves before realizing it was on this site as well):

For those of you who fly a lot and even those who don’t, a crisis in the way you will fly is on the way. First off, we start with airlines downsizing and reducing everything from staff to where they fly and when. This happens to do 2 things. First- it reduces the number of available seats causing a spike in price per seat and secondly it puts many people out of work who got some of these airlines to where they are today.

Next we run into more price hikes all in the name of “fuel prices souring”. We have checked baggage at $15 per piece, charges for crackers and sodas that were once free, charges for weight of baggage, size etc. It’s been reported on several occasions that many of the airlines pay less for their jet fuel then we as Americans pay for a gallon of gasoline for our cars.

So my question is this, how can these airlines charge higher fares and charge for baggage and grossly overpricing and call it in the name of “fuel prices souring” when they pay less for their fuel then we do to gas up our cars?

The airlines are going to eventually price themselves out of the market shutting down more airlines and job losses to hard working Americans. This whole process will end up in the same situation of the pre-Amtrak days when passenger rail line priced themselves out and were eventually taken over by the US Government. Eventually, the Government will have no choice then to buy out airlines and consolidate. This will bring prices under control, since they will be a government subsidiary and will have to answer to Congress on price changes. Mark my word- this will happen unless the industry works together and fixes the issues without grossly over charging customers.

]]> By: Michael http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12630 Michael Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:17:35 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-12630 I am sitting at Sky Harbor Airport right now listening to the flight attendants camp out behind the gate podium for gate A1. The US Airways in-flight crew are not excited about receiving the brunt of the angry customers when the "no free drinks" starts to hit the skies on their airline. I am sitting at Sky Harbor Airport right now listening to the flight attendants camp out behind the gate podium for gate A1. The US Airways in-flight crew are not excited about receiving the brunt of the angry customers when the “no free drinks” starts to hit the skies on their airline.

]]> By: Mike http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12629 Mike Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:50:11 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-12629 I just realized a way that the check bag fee will hurt me. I belong to two airline clubs so that I can get work done before or between flights. Now I feel I will be forced to get to the game before boarding begins so I don't have to gate check my carry-on bag. This will reduce my time in the club by at least 10 minutes per flight segment. As one who flies at least 50 segments a year, that means 500 minutes (8 hours!) that I can no longer spend in the lounge. It's like the membership fee has just been raised. I just realized a way that the check bag fee will hurt me. I belong to two airline clubs so that I can get work done before or between flights. Now I feel I will be forced to get to the game before boarding begins so I don’t have to gate check my carry-on bag. This will reduce my time in the club by at least 10 minutes per flight segment. As one who flies at least 50 segments a year, that means 500 minutes (8 hours!) that I can no longer spend in the lounge. It’s like the membership fee has just been raised.

]]> By: Mike http://www.elliott.org/blog/us-airways-a-lot-of-experts-are-counting-us-out-%e2%80%93-but-like-all-of-you-i-cant-wait-to-prove-them-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12628 Mike Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:47:37 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5064#comment-12628 Jasper, thanks to our stupid liquid rules, you are right. We can buy overpriced soda and water at the airport or from the airline. Some hardy travelers bring their own bottles to fill from a water fountain, but I find those drinking fountains to be a little gross for my taste. I'm waiting for the revolt when people get stuck on the tarmac at O'Hare in the summer waiting for takeoff clearance. Jasper, thanks to our stupid liquid rules, you are right. We can buy overpriced soda and water at the airport or from the airline. Some hardy travelers bring their own bottles to fill from a water fountain, but I find those drinking fountains to be a little gross for my taste. I’m waiting for the revolt when people get stuck on the tarmac at O’Hare in the summer waiting for takeoff clearance.

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