Comments on: TSA’s “layered” approach to security and what it means to you http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/ Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott's site. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: cargoinsurance http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-43941 cargoinsurance Thu, 22 Jul 2010 07:00:37 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-43941 Thanks for sharing your views!!! Thanks for sharing your views!!!

]]> By: sonny chatrath http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-30132 sonny chatrath Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:41:51 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-30132 Wouldn't it be nice if other countries made their airports more secure? Nigeria, and most other airports in Africa, and other parts of the world do not have the kind of security we currently have in place here in the US, and in Europe. The problem starts outside the US, and even though most of the culprits are apprehended before they can do the deed, it is a scary thing to see so many crack-pots trying the same stupid stunt. And I have been saying all along, what was said on CNN two days ago, if they can sneak drugs into this country, then anything is possible. With so many airlines flying from so many different airports to the US either non-stop, or via Europe it is pretty difficult for Law Enforcement to do anything about it. I can promise you if a couple of people are denied boarding, then we will read about profiling, and racism etc in this country. Let's take some lessons from the Israelis they seem to be doing this right. Wouldn’t it be nice if other countries made their airports more secure? Nigeria, and most other airports in Africa, and other parts of the world do not have the kind of security we currently have in place here in the US, and in Europe. The problem starts outside the US, and even though most of the culprits are apprehended before they can do the deed, it is a scary thing to see so many crack-pots trying the same stupid stunt. And I have been saying all along, what was said on CNN two days ago, if they can sneak drugs into this country, then anything is possible. With so many airlines flying from so many different airports to the US either non-stop, or via Europe it is pretty difficult for Law Enforcement to do anything about it. I can promise you if a couple of people are denied boarding, then we will read about profiling, and racism etc in this country. Let’s take some lessons from the Israelis they seem to be doing this right.

]]> By: Lisa Safari http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29999 Lisa Safari Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:59:41 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29999 I'd like to know why america's TSA is the target for what happened Xmas day isn't it Amsterdam that droped the ball. Since 911 and the TSA was put in place we have not had any U.S. incidents everything that has happened has happened from outside the country. Where the security is lax and more freedom shouldn't we be consentrating on the other countries and not so much on the great work that our TSA here in america is doing in fact I heard that TSA employees are so well trained that they may be taking over other federal positions like federal buildings etc. Thanks Lisa Safari I’d like to know why america’s TSA is the target for what happened Xmas day isn’t it Amsterdam that droped the ball. Since 911 and the TSA was put in place we have not had any U.S. incidents everything that has happened has happened from outside the country. Where the security is lax and more freedom shouldn’t we be consentrating on the other countries and not so much on the great work that our TSA here in america is doing in fact I heard that TSA employees are so well trained that they may be taking over other federal positions like federal buildings etc. Thanks Lisa Safari

]]> By: Barfield http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29954 Barfield Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:52:56 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29954 @ Carver Among the items that people normally carry, there are not so many things that, mixed with other things, could bring down a plane. Whatever items there are, they're dangerous and should be banned. But let's not lose focus. People are being put at risk of dying because of a delirious fixation that some of us have with genitals, a standard feature of every human body. We've either got to get over it or else decide that "modesty" is a cause worth dying for. @ Carver

Among the items that people normally carry, there are not so many things that, mixed with other things, could bring down a plane. Whatever items there are, they’re dangerous and should be banned.

But let’s not lose focus. People are being put at risk of dying because of a delirious fixation that some of us have with genitals, a standard feature of every human body. We’ve either got to get over it or else decide that “modesty” is a cause worth dying for.

]]> By: Clif http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29952 Clif Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:26:50 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29952 I flew back to DC from Paris yesterday on Air France. All the US flights were departing from a separate area of the terminal and to gain access you had to show your passport again, and then undergo a full body pat down and search of hand luggage (which was limited to one piece). It was a lengthy process, but our flight was delayed for a mechanical reason, not security (though this undoubtedly gave people more time to make it to the gate). But the absolute most interesting thing about it, is the completely different attitude of the French staff to security than the TSA. They were, unfailingly, polite (in multiple languages) and treated everyone with absolute courtesy, and patience. The gentleman manning the X ray machine was positively charming and helpful. I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of all this when most cargo still isn't screened, but it did show that if we have to go through this whole rigmarole, it can be done with courtesy. I flew back to DC from Paris yesterday on Air France. All the US flights were departing from a separate area of the terminal and to gain access you had to show your passport again, and then undergo a full body pat down and search of hand luggage (which was limited to one piece).

It was a lengthy process, but our flight was delayed for a mechanical reason, not security (though this undoubtedly gave people more time to make it to the gate).

But the absolute most interesting thing about it, is the completely different attitude of the French staff to security than the TSA. They were, unfailingly, polite (in multiple languages) and treated everyone with absolute courtesy, and patience. The gentleman manning the X ray machine was positively charming and helpful. I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of all this when most cargo still isn’t screened, but it did show that if we have to go through this whole rigmarole, it can be done with courtesy.

]]> By: New Changes in TSA Security - Air Travel | Top Trips http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29855 New Changes in TSA Security - Air Travel | Top Trips Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:19:59 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29855 [...] New Changes in TSA Security Joanne Poesch, 12/31/09 After the recent thwarted terrorist attempt, the TSA has implemented a new layered approach to security at the nation's airports. The Transportation Security Administration’s campaign to confuse airline passengers has intensified. American travelers are far more concerned about what security precautions will be taken domestically — and there, we have little to go on except the TSA’s vague security-speak. Read More [...] [...] New Changes in TSA Security Joanne Poesch, 12/31/09 After the recent thwarted terrorist attempt, the TSA has implemented a new layered approach to security at the nation's airports. The Transportation Security Administration’s campaign to confuse airline passengers has intensified. American travelers are far more concerned about what security precautions will be taken domestically — and there, we have little to go on except the TSA’s vague security-speak. Read More [...]

]]> By: Mary http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29827 Mary Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:44:55 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29827 Tell me what you'd make of this: In the Madison, WI airport, (and who knows how many others?), on the podium of the TSA agent who checks your boarding pass & ID before you enter the security line, there's a little laminated list taped to that podium. A list of countries. All Middle Eastern countries. I didn't have the nerve to ask, but my assumption regarding that list was that if either: (a) you originated from any of those countries, based on your ID and/or boarding pass, or (b) you were traveling to any of those countries, you would most likely be automatically pulled from the line for an extra search, pat-down, explosive screen, full body scan, what-have-you. That bothered me. Isn't that profiling? Isn't that considered wrong and perhaps even illegal? However, I know that following the attempted Christmas Day attack, Amsterdam is now performing heightened security screens on all individuals flying into the U.S., and I must admit I agree with that decision. It's a sticky issue, isn't it? Tell me what you’d make of this:

In the Madison, WI airport, (and who knows how many others?), on the podium of the TSA agent who checks your boarding pass & ID before you enter the security line, there’s a little laminated list taped to that podium. A list of countries. All Middle Eastern countries.

I didn’t have the nerve to ask, but my assumption regarding that list was that if either:
(a) you originated from any of those countries, based on your ID and/or boarding pass, or
(b) you were traveling to any of those countries,
you would most likely be automatically pulled from the line for an extra search, pat-down, explosive screen, full body scan, what-have-you.

That bothered me. Isn’t that profiling? Isn’t that considered wrong and perhaps even illegal?

However, I know that following the attempted Christmas Day attack, Amsterdam is now performing heightened security screens on all individuals flying into the U.S., and I must admit I agree with that decision.

It’s a sticky issue, isn’t it?

]]> By: Tre http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29801 Tre Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:40:41 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29801 cmm: Didn't Archie Bunker say something similar? (I'm paraphrasing from memory) "If you gave everybody a gun as they got on the plane, then nobody could hold up the plane." Makes sense. If you know everybody else can open up a can of whoop-a$$ on ya, you sit tight and don't do anything stupid. cmm: Didn’t Archie Bunker say something similar? (I’m paraphrasing from memory) “If you gave everybody a gun as they got on the plane, then nobody could hold up the plane.” Makes sense. If you know everybody else can open up a can of whoop-a$$ on ya, you sit tight and don’t do anything stupid.

]]> By: Carver http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29764 Carver Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:39:20 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29764 @Barfield Of course, what is a dangerous item? There are tons of "harmless" compounds that become dangerous when mixed with others. @Barfield

Of course, what is a dangerous item? There are tons of “harmless” compounds that become dangerous when mixed with others.

]]> By: cmm http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29723 cmm Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:38:21 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29723 have a US Marshall on every flight leaving the US. Have a US Marshall inspect all baggage at the counter, in the baggage room, on the baggage roundabout. Arm everyone on a secure/safe list with tasers as they walk onto the plane over the age of 30 and remove them when they leave the plane. Have the US Marshall on the plane give "safe" instructions on the use of a taser and perhaps the spelling, since we all know where the exits are and how to pretend we'll survive a water landing over land. Inquire NRA members if they are current and hand them a gun as they get on the plane. LOL. have a US Marshall on every flight leaving the US. Have a US Marshall inspect all baggage at the counter, in the baggage room, on the baggage roundabout. Arm everyone on a secure/safe list with tasers as they walk onto the plane over the age of 30 and remove them when they leave the plane. Have the US Marshall on the plane give “safe” instructions on the use of a taser and perhaps the spelling, since we all know where the exits are and how to pretend we’ll survive a water landing over land. Inquire NRA members if they are current and hand them a gun as they get on the plane. LOL.

]]> By: Barfield http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29658 Barfield Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:40:23 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29658 People who want to fly on airplanes should be required to show that they do not carry dangerous items on their persons. It is as simple as that. The only thing that is distracts us from this simple truth are prudish social scruples which arose in times long past. Until we are willing to take a 21st century approach to 21st century problems, we and our freedom will be at the mercy of those willing to take advantage of our self-imposed limitations. All the expense and intrusiveness of profiling, no-fly lists and all the other burdensome and ineffective paraphernalia could be avoided by simply making sure that nobody get on the plane with the means of doing harm. People who want to fly on airplanes should be required to show that they do not carry dangerous items on their persons. It is as simple as that. The only thing that is distracts us from this simple truth are prudish social scruples which arose in times long past. Until we are willing to take a 21st century approach to 21st century problems, we and our freedom will be at the mercy of those willing to take advantage of our self-imposed limitations.

All the expense and intrusiveness of profiling, no-fly lists and all the other burdensome and ineffective paraphernalia could be avoided by simply making sure that nobody get on the plane with the means of doing harm.

]]> By: Ames http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29641 Ames Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:49:45 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29641 The one time I have been "screened" on a through flight was in Dakar. Security people came onto the plane and required all through passengers to identiby their carryon bags to be sure no bags were unclaimed. I think they glanced at our boarding passes, made some chit chat which may have been profiling rather than just niceties. This was about two years ago. If this can be done in Senegal, which is not usually regarded as one of the most secure airports, then the rest of us are missing opportunities. 911 was called a "failure of imagination" I think we need to start thinking much further out of the box and get into the mindset of a gamer. Architects and engineers frequently do this sort of exercise as part of their design education - how could I accomplish some task in a different way? Start getting creative. The bad guys will, why can't we think ahead of them instead of just react after? The one time I have been “screened” on a through flight was in Dakar. Security people came onto the plane and required all through passengers to identiby their carryon bags to be sure no bags were unclaimed. I think they glanced at our boarding passes, made some chit chat which may have been profiling rather than just niceties. This was about two years ago. If this can be done in Senegal, which is not usually regarded as one of the most secure airports, then the rest of us are missing opportunities.
911 was called a “failure of imagination” I think we need to start thinking much further out of the box and get into the mindset of a gamer. Architects and engineers frequently do this sort of exercise as part of their design education – how could I accomplish some task in a different way? Start getting creative. The bad guys will, why can’t we think ahead of them instead of just react after?

]]> By: Jaime http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29506 Jaime Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:09:17 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29506 "Why hasn’t it been suggested to re-check all inbound passengers at their connecting airports from all flights originating outside the USA and Europe?" They already do. The last two times I've flown internationally - this past October and in 2007 - on my way home I had to pick up my luggage, go through customs, and go through security once more before I could catch the domestic leg of my flight. (I've never had a layover in Europe, so I'm not sure how they operate.) I don't believe there *was* a connecting flight in this case; it had come directly from Amsterdam, so the responsibility lies with AMS and also Nigeria, his journey's point of origin. “Why hasn’t it been suggested to re-check all inbound passengers at their connecting airports from all flights originating outside the USA and Europe?”

They already do. The last two times I’ve flown internationally – this past October and in 2007 – on my way home I had to pick up my luggage, go through customs, and go through security once more before I could catch the domestic leg of my flight. (I’ve never had a layover in Europe, so I’m not sure how they operate.)

I don’t believe there *was* a connecting flight in this case; it had come directly from Amsterdam, so the responsibility lies with AMS and also Nigeria, his journey’s point of origin.

]]> By: Sarah http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29489 Sarah Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:02:38 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29489 The solution was never to stop what happened on board but to stop him from getting onboard in the first place. Putting restrictions on what people can do onboard will do absolutely nothing if the terrorists are allowed to get onboard a plane in the first place. Even if they couldn't detect the explosives (which is scary enough), there were enough red flags about this guy in the larger immigration system that he shouldn't have been able to get on the plane regardless. If they can require extra scrutiny for five year olds with the same name as someone on the do not fly list, how can someone with that many terrorist connections breeze right onto the plane with a US Visa? I know that some locations and airlines have a not getting up for one hour rule anyway (Israel for example), but to use it as a knee jerk solution that doesn't solve the real problem at hand was a big blunder for TSA. The solution was never to stop what happened on board but to stop him from getting onboard in the first place. Putting restrictions on what people can do onboard will do absolutely nothing if the terrorists are allowed to get onboard a plane in the first place. Even if they couldn’t detect the explosives (which is scary enough), there were enough red flags about this guy in the larger immigration system that he shouldn’t have been able to get on the plane regardless. If they can require extra scrutiny for five year olds with the same name as someone on the do not fly list, how can someone with that many terrorist connections breeze right onto the plane with a US Visa? I know that some locations and airlines have a not getting up for one hour rule anyway (Israel for example), but to use it as a knee jerk solution that doesn’t solve the real problem at hand was a big blunder for TSA.

]]> By: Phil http://www.elliott.org/blog/the-latest-from-the-tsa-layered-approach-to-security-and-what-it-means-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-29487 Phil Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:35:25 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10213#comment-29487 I am sure it must be embarrassing for the government to have once again ignored important intelligence information after being told by his own family that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was someone to be watched. The TSA response serves to refocus public attention away from Homeland Security and deflect responsibility for the major screw-up. It now is the fault of the traveling public who want to access their carry-on or need to use the bathroom prior to landing or who want to use their e-reader or iPod toward the end of the flight and we must be properly disciplined. Had all screening policies current at the time of the terrorist attempt been followed this attack would have been prevented. The government should address the real security lapse and not spend millions making already difficult travel more difficult for those who try to cooperate with the system. But who listens to me? I am sure it must be embarrassing for the government to have once again ignored important intelligence information after being told by his own family that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was someone to be watched. The TSA response serves to refocus public attention away from Homeland Security and deflect responsibility for the major screw-up. It now is the fault of the traveling public who want to access their carry-on or need to use the bathroom prior to landing or who want to use their e-reader or iPod toward the end of the flight and we must be properly disciplined. Had all screening policies current at the time of the terrorist attempt been followed this attack would have been prevented. The government should address the real security lapse and not spend millions making already difficult travel more difficult for those who try to cooperate with the system. But who listens to me?

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