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	<title>Comments on: Starwood devalues award points in a &#8220;pretty sneaky&#8221; way</title>
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	<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/</link>
	<description>The travel troubleshooter.</description>
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		<title>By: carver</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-18885</link>
		<dc:creator>carver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 06:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-18885</guid>
		<description>I strongly disagree that hotel and car programs are worthless.  Like anything else they must be managed to provide the best rate of return.

I&#039;m a President&#039;s Circle member with Herz.  The guaranteed upgrade to a premium car is the perk that makes it worth while for me.

With regards to hotel programs, I belong to several.  Twice I redeemed points to spend a week at the Champs-Elysees Marriott.  Another time i got a free week at the Westin Paris.

The problem is that ppl get confused and believed that these programs are rewards.  Of course not.  They are to incentivize you to spend you travel dollars with them.  Just make sure you get a good rate of return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I strongly disagree that hotel and car programs are worthless.  Like anything else they must be managed to provide the best rate of return.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a President&#8217;s Circle member with Herz.  The guaranteed upgrade to a premium car is the perk that makes it worth while for me.</p>
<p>With regards to hotel programs, I belong to several.  Twice I redeemed points to spend a week at the Champs-Elysees Marriott.  Another time i got a free week at the Westin Paris.</p>
<p>The problem is that ppl get confused and believed that these programs are rewards.  Of course not.  They are to incentivize you to spend you travel dollars with them.  Just make sure you get a good rate of return.</p>
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		<title>By: Coffee</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-18880</link>
		<dc:creator>Coffee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-18880</guid>
		<description>Just last night we were supposed to use SPG points for a Sheraton en route home from a spring break vacation. Without going into all the boring details, a miscommunication by a Starwood employee resulted in us not having been credited in time with the points we were going to use. A manager made a big show of being very apologetic (we&#039;re talking Broadway performance caliber here) and graciously gave us a 50% off certificate to &quot;help us out&quot; with our hotel costs and make up for the inconvenience we&#039;d been caused. When I called, the rack rate via Starwood was $291 for the hotel in question; so with the 50% off &quot;help&quot; offered us, we&#039;d have paid nearly $150. A call directly to the hotel got us a room for $79.

Dishonest and sleazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just last night we were supposed to use SPG points for a Sheraton en route home from a spring break vacation. Without going into all the boring details, a miscommunication by a Starwood employee resulted in us not having been credited in time with the points we were going to use. A manager made a big show of being very apologetic (we&#8217;re talking Broadway performance caliber here) and graciously gave us a 50% off certificate to &#8220;help us out&#8221; with our hotel costs and make up for the inconvenience we&#8217;d been caused. When I called, the rack rate via Starwood was $291 for the hotel in question; so with the 50% off &#8220;help&#8221; offered us, we&#8217;d have paid nearly $150. A call directly to the hotel got us a room for $79.</p>
<p>Dishonest and sleazy.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-18828</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-18828</guid>
		<description>i use to love starwood until i started to dig further into their website and rates.  in being an spg member you get one 50% off certificate per year.  here&#039;s the thing, you call, you get 50% off &quot;rack rate&quot;.  EVERYTIME i&#039;ve done this i was able to go onto the hotels direct website and find lower rates then the 50% off.  It&#039;s as if the jack the rate so high to make it look like a great deal.  it&#039;s not.  you might as well throw the certificate away, it&#039;s spg&#039;s way of getting more revenue from you.  even their reservation agents agree with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i use to love starwood until i started to dig further into their website and rates.  in being an spg member you get one 50% off certificate per year.  here&#8217;s the thing, you call, you get 50% off &#8220;rack rate&#8221;.  EVERYTIME i&#8217;ve done this i was able to go onto the hotels direct website and find lower rates then the 50% off.  It&#8217;s as if the jack the rate so high to make it look like a great deal.  it&#8217;s not.  you might as well throw the certificate away, it&#8217;s spg&#8217;s way of getting more revenue from you.  even their reservation agents agree with this.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-12451</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-12451</guid>
		<description>I just realized today that Starwood is also doing something else that saves them a lot of points - I checked my balance after having stayed some nights at Sheraton Fishermans Warf recently, and realized that I had only been given points for the value of the extras, not the room. So I called Starwood today to complain only to learn that only some rates qualify for points. Problem is, that the websites and the central customer service does not show if a rate earns points or not. So you&#039;d in principle have to call the actual hotel you&#039;re planning to book to find out if a rate earns points. Also those stays does not count towards membership level. Let me just say that I&#039;m really dissapointed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just realized today that Starwood is also doing something else that saves them a lot of points &#8211; I checked my balance after having stayed some nights at Sheraton Fishermans Warf recently, and realized that I had only been given points for the value of the extras, not the room. So I called Starwood today to complain only to learn that only some rates qualify for points. Problem is, that the websites and the central customer service does not show if a rate earns points or not. So you&#8217;d in principle have to call the actual hotel you&#8217;re planning to book to find out if a rate earns points. Also those stays does not count towards membership level. Let me just say that I&#8217;m really dissapointed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-9372</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-9372</guid>
		<description>Hotel programs by definition work differently than airlines, because they are dollar-based instead of mile-based.

If we assume a customer&#039;s average flight is 1000 miles one-way, then it takes 25 one-way flights to earn one free round-trip.  If airfare gets more expensive, then the customer pays more to earn, but earns a more expensive rewards -- so from the airline&#039;s perspective, it all should work out in the end.

With dollar-based hotel programs, inflation alone is going to cause hotel redemption rate inflation.  If hotel rates rise, customers earn more points (which doesn&#039;t happen with the airline miles model).  It only makes sense then that the reward should also require more points.

As a customer, would I prefer that reward levels stay the same?  Of course.  But I also understand the business model and see why this hotel reward inflation occurs.

At least Starwood was nice enough to let everyone know of the upcoming changes and provide time to book rewards at the current level.  Among hotel brands, this reward inflation certainly isn&#039;t unique to Starwood, and it seems most hotel programs just raise the redemption rates with no warning.  The no-warning changes from other hotel programs are the ones that ought to be labeled &quot;sneaky.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hotel programs by definition work differently than airlines, because they are dollar-based instead of mile-based.</p>
<p>If we assume a customer&#8217;s average flight is 1000 miles one-way, then it takes 25 one-way flights to earn one free round-trip.  If airfare gets more expensive, then the customer pays more to earn, but earns a more expensive rewards &#8212; so from the airline&#8217;s perspective, it all should work out in the end.</p>
<p>With dollar-based hotel programs, inflation alone is going to cause hotel redemption rate inflation.  If hotel rates rise, customers earn more points (which doesn&#8217;t happen with the airline miles model).  It only makes sense then that the reward should also require more points.</p>
<p>As a customer, would I prefer that reward levels stay the same?  Of course.  But I also understand the business model and see why this hotel reward inflation occurs.</p>
<p>At least Starwood was nice enough to let everyone know of the upcoming changes and provide time to book rewards at the current level.  Among hotel brands, this reward inflation certainly isn&#8217;t unique to Starwood, and it seems most hotel programs just raise the redemption rates with no warning.  The no-warning changes from other hotel programs are the ones that ought to be labeled &#8220;sneaky.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-9359</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-9359</guid>
		<description>I discovered the Starwood American Express card a couple years ago, and it has been my primary card since then.  I charge several hundred thousand dollars a year in business expenses through the card, so i accumulate a ton of points which I use for family trips and vacations.

Starwood is an incredible value.  When you transfer points to miles, you get a 5k bonus for every 20k you transfer, essentially giving you 1.25 miles per dollar.  The selection of airlines you can transfer to is better than anywhere else (including Membership Rewards, which doesn&#039;t include American Airlines).  You can get many of their lower end hotels (such as Four Points and some Sheratons) for a little as 2-3k/night.  I find it harder to justify the 5, 6, and 7 star hotels at 12-35k/night.  Nights &amp; Flights is a great option for their 3 and 4 star hotels.  5th Night Free is a good option for 5 and 6 star hotels if staying 5 nights is convenient.  Cash &amp; Points can be a good option for their 4, 5, and 6 star hotels.

They had a similar reclassification last year, although I don&#039;t think they did much notification of it.  (I don&#039;t know if they have done it before that, because I&#039;ve just been a member for a year and a half.)  It&#039;s only natural that most would increase in value (especially ones where there was extensive rennovation).  Only a relatively small percent of their properties changed classes.

I&#039;m a Starwood Gold, and I get frequent upgrades (even for rooms paid for with points, which is almost exclusively how I pay).  I&#039;ve been very pleased.

Also, I should note that I put the link to Starwood&#039;s Point Comparison as my website, for easy reference to the myriad of hotel redemption options.  I have no relationship with Starwood other than being a happy customer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I discovered the Starwood American Express card a couple years ago, and it has been my primary card since then.  I charge several hundred thousand dollars a year in business expenses through the card, so i accumulate a ton of points which I use for family trips and vacations.</p>
<p>Starwood is an incredible value.  When you transfer points to miles, you get a 5k bonus for every 20k you transfer, essentially giving you 1.25 miles per dollar.  The selection of airlines you can transfer to is better than anywhere else (including Membership Rewards, which doesn&#8217;t include American Airlines).  You can get many of their lower end hotels (such as Four Points and some Sheratons) for a little as 2-3k/night.  I find it harder to justify the 5, 6, and 7 star hotels at 12-35k/night.  Nights &#038; Flights is a great option for their 3 and 4 star hotels.  5th Night Free is a good option for 5 and 6 star hotels if staying 5 nights is convenient.  Cash &#038; Points can be a good option for their 4, 5, and 6 star hotels.</p>
<p>They had a similar reclassification last year, although I don&#8217;t think they did much notification of it.  (I don&#8217;t know if they have done it before that, because I&#8217;ve just been a member for a year and a half.)  It&#8217;s only natural that most would increase in value (especially ones where there was extensive rennovation).  Only a relatively small percent of their properties changed classes.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a Starwood Gold, and I get frequent upgrades (even for rooms paid for with points, which is almost exclusively how I pay).  I&#8217;ve been very pleased.</p>
<p>Also, I should note that I put the link to Starwood&#8217;s Point Comparison as my website, for easy reference to the myriad of hotel redemption options.  I have no relationship with Starwood other than being a happy customer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-9242</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-9242</guid>
		<description>I really dont see what all the complaining is about.  I travel for business and am a UA 1K, Northwest Plainum, Emirates gold and Starwood Platinum.  In the last year I have redeemed FREE FIRST CLASS tickets from NY to Dubai, Germany, Amsterdam, London, South Africa, Singapore and Hong Kong. (7 tickets valued at close to $100,000.00) (All flights on UA, AF, EK, LH, SR and SQ) As for Starwood, I enjoy the upgrades, etc you get by being a platinum member so I never used any points.  Last summer I had 2 months off and finally used my points for a free month - 1week each  in Mauritius, Sharm El shek, Fankfurt and Doha (28 nights valued at close to $10,000)  Yes, I give the airlines lots of business but this is a great way for them to say thanks.  (better yet, if you are like me and most of you are, its our comapnies who pay for our busesss trips anyway.  This allows us to take our vacations for free.  (PS - I just decided to go to Germany next week for 5 days.  I went on the Emirates web site, put my dates from NY to Hamburg in, chose first class and 5 minutes later had my FREE ticket.  dates and class I wanted.  I always here the exerts saying to book way in advance.  I find it much easier to book a week or 2 before my trip...this is when the airlines free up inventory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really dont see what all the complaining is about.  I travel for business and am a UA 1K, Northwest Plainum, Emirates gold and Starwood Platinum.  In the last year I have redeemed FREE FIRST CLASS tickets from NY to Dubai, Germany, Amsterdam, London, South Africa, Singapore and Hong Kong. (7 tickets valued at close to $100,000.00) (All flights on UA, AF, EK, LH, SR and SQ) As for Starwood, I enjoy the upgrades, etc you get by being a platinum member so I never used any points.  Last summer I had 2 months off and finally used my points for a free month &#8211; 1week each  in Mauritius, Sharm El shek, Fankfurt and Doha (28 nights valued at close to $10,000)  Yes, I give the airlines lots of business but this is a great way for them to say thanks.  (better yet, if you are like me and most of you are, its our comapnies who pay for our busesss trips anyway.  This allows us to take our vacations for free.  (PS &#8211; I just decided to go to Germany next week for 5 days.  I went on the Emirates web site, put my dates from NY to Hamburg in, chose first class and 5 minutes later had my FREE ticket.  dates and class I wanted.  I always here the exerts saying to book way in advance.  I find it much easier to book a week or 2 before my trip&#8230;this is when the airlines free up inventory.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-9219</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-9219</guid>
		<description>Deja Vidor, I agree with your point.  I am faced with a business trip that will require either UA, US or WN. No matter which airline I choose, I will be a nobody for that trip.

I stopped flying UA after the disruptions of 2000 (and the way they treated their employees in bankruptcy). I don&#039;t like US&#039; new no-minimum mileage policy or the merger with the former HP. I guess I will pick WN by default.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deja Vidor, I agree with your point.  I am faced with a business trip that will require either UA, US or WN. No matter which airline I choose, I will be a nobody for that trip.</p>
<p>I stopped flying UA after the disruptions of 2000 (and the way they treated their employees in bankruptcy). I don&#8217;t like US&#8217; new no-minimum mileage policy or the merger with the former HP. I guess I will pick WN by default.</p>
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		<title>By: Deja Vidor</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-9195</link>
		<dc:creator>Deja Vidor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-9195</guid>
		<description>Mike I agree with your point about points helping you get better service: &quot;If you have points, we will treat you nicely.&quot;

But the more accurate description is like a protection racket: &quot;if you DON&#039;T have points, we will freely abuse you as a customer&quot;. 

That is why I will never fly United again, unless I absolutely have to (unfortunately, more often that I like, due to schedules and destination). Early on, I had few points, and they bumped me in the worst way. Now I have points and I get better treatment, but I remember the past insult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike I agree with your point about points helping you get better service: &#8220;If you have points, we will treat you nicely.&#8221;</p>
<p>But the more accurate description is like a protection racket: &#8220;if you DON&#8217;T have points, we will freely abuse you as a customer&#8221;. </p>
<p>That is why I will never fly United again, unless I absolutely have to (unfortunately, more often that I like, due to schedules and destination). Early on, I had few points, and they bumped me in the worst way. Now I have points and I get better treatment, but I remember the past insult.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/comment-page-1/#comment-9194</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/starwood-devalues-award-points-in-a-pretty-sneaky-way/#comment-9194</guid>
		<description>I find that the main benefit I get is having elite status with airlines and hotels. It does mean better service, especially when something goes wrong. Hotels may upgrade you to a better view or a suite.  Airlines will give you priority in rebooking, etc.

I recently had an American flight cancel and there were very few options for the remainder of the day. I think because I am Platinum I was confirmed in First all the way home, with no miles or electronic upgrade points subtracted. Many other people were rebooked on another airline. I would have taken the other airline, but both situations involved overnight flights so I naturally took the upgraded flight.

What I found distasteful about the Starwood change was the phrase &quot;only a handful are moving this year&quot;. There were dozens of changes, primarily to higher categories. I don&#039;t consider dozens of changes to be a handful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find that the main benefit I get is having elite status with airlines and hotels. It does mean better service, especially when something goes wrong. Hotels may upgrade you to a better view or a suite.  Airlines will give you priority in rebooking, etc.</p>
<p>I recently had an American flight cancel and there were very few options for the remainder of the day. I think because I am Platinum I was confirmed in First all the way home, with no miles or electronic upgrade points subtracted. Many other people were rebooked on another airline. I would have taken the other airline, but both situations involved overnight flights so I naturally took the upgraded flight.</p>
<p>What I found distasteful about the Starwood change was the phrase &#8220;only a handful are moving this year&#8221;. There were dozens of changes, primarily to higher categories. I don&#8217;t consider dozens of changes to be a handful.</p>
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