Mary Yostos needs your advice.
She had a horrible experience at the Grand Hotel in Minneapolis last September. While at a wedding party, her wallet was stolen. Her complaints to the hotel were for nothing. “They said the restaurant on the second floor was technically not part of the hotel,” she says.
So she wrote a negative review about the property on TripAdvisor.com.
i was at this hotel for a pre-wedding party and we went to the restaurant upstairs…my wallet was stolen here from some guy off the street who walked into the hotel and randomly went to this restaurant. as i was in pursuit of the criminal in the street, my friends reported this to the front desk and they were not willing to call the police and said it wasnt their issue…the valet parking people ran after the criminal and called 911…i wouldnt feel safe to stay here.
That’s when the fun started.
The hotel wasn’t happy with her review. First, it responded to the post online, leaving a rebuttal on TripAdvisor. So she wrote to the hotel, explaining again what had happened.
I was at your hotel on the evening of September 11th to attend a very small pre-wedding gathering with my friends on the restaurant on the second floor.
We were the only ones in the restaurant at the time and this couple came in the midst of us and stole my wallet out of my purse right in front of me. When I actually discovered the wallet was gone, I went after him in the street.
As I went in pursuit of the guy in the street to attempt to get my wallet back, my friends proceeded to the front desk to call the police and report the incident, where the front desk person refused to call saying that the restaurant is not part of the hotel and that the hotel is not responsible for what goes on in the restaurant. While I understand this point, I just found that response very rude.
The doormen in front of the Grand Hotel and the Crowne Plaza across the street (I think they were in charge of the valet parking as well) were the ones who tried to help me by calling 911 for the police from their cell phones and help me run after the criminal. Your hotel staff though, was extremely unhelpful.
What can be done in the future? Train your staff to call the police, even if something happened in the restaurants above….it’s common courtesy….I ended up staying at the Marriott City Center down the street and actually the set up of the hotel makes it more difficult for a stranger to walk up to the lobby/restaurant areas….I know that the Grand Hotel has history behind its structure which makes it difficult, but something tells me that this guy has been in the hotel before since he knew to randomly come upstairs to the restaurant on the second floor.
I was very disappointed with the way the hotel handled the situation which prompted my post on Tripadvisor.com. I do travel a lot for work and for personal and this is the first time where anything like this has happened to me (I am from the NYC metro area and haven’t been robbed once). I do think that the hotel just needs to review its security policies that are in current place.
I did write comments to the Grand Hotel on their Web site the week after I returned from Minneapolis and sadly there was no response, up until your message today on Tripadvisor.com.
Here’s the letter she received after her inquiry and TripAdvisor post:
I just want to close the loop on the issues that we’ve been discussing. Regarding the delay in getting back to you, I’ve had to involve several people, including employees within several departments our hotel, Zahtar restaurant and the Minneapolis PD, and it’s taken quite some time to get the complete picture.
Thank you for the kind words regarding our hotel staff. We like to think (and it’s been my experience) that everyone who works here is, at the very least always hospitable, responsive and helpful, which is why your situation caught us so completely off guard. I have a lot to address here so I’m going to resort to bullet points, please forgive my formality.
1) Lack of Security…while troubling, we’re sort of in a bind here as your personal situation relates to hotel security. First of all, even though we’re privately held as a hotel we’re a very public place particularly in our “public” areas. Frankly, it’s in our best interest (and that of our lessees) to not restrict access to these places during business hours. Additionally, Zahtar (where your belongings were stolen from) is neither owned nor operated by the hotel and for us to keep out potential paying customers during business hours based on the premise that they “may be up to no good” is strictly forbidden in the terms of their lease.
2) Lack of Responsiveness…your review on Tripadvisor was literally the first time that we were made aware of your situation. Unfortunately there was some sort of technical issue with our on-line complaint forum and I did not receive the auto-generated email that the system is supposed to send. This has been fixed, and the flow of questions, praise and the occasional complaint has been restored. For this I do apologize, but please understand that it was out of control, and we would never take a complaint lightly, regardless of where an incident may have occurred.
3) Rude Desk Staff…after reviewing our records and seeing who was on duty that evening, we have taken the steps necessary to remove the individual on duty that evening (this wasn’t the first or last incident in which they were involved) from any position in which they would have guest contact. We were certainly at fault for hiring and placing this individual in the first place, and we’ve taken steps to rectify that situation in light of what you’ve told us.
4) Minneapolis PD…Having received the case # from the Zahtar manager, I followed up with the police, but also was able to get nowhere in their bureaucracy.
I understand that you have mixed feelings about Minneapolis and strongly negative feelings about our hotel based on your experience. I suppose anyone in your shoes would feel that way. But I also urge you to put yourself in our shoes. We bend over backwards to take the best care of our hotel guests…for many of us, it’s our life’s work. And it’s our sincere feeling that we have addressed the issues in your complaints, and where culpable we have tried to right our wrongs. As such, I ask that you consider editing and/or taking down your negative review on Tripadvisor.
Thank you for your time and consideration,
Geoff Roether
Senior Corporate Sales Manager
Grand Hotel Minneapolis
So should Yostos delete her review or not?
Well, TripAdvisor reviews can’t be edited once it’s submitted, but you can ask the site to remove a review.
I tried to find Yostos’ review, but it appears someone — maybe TripAdvisor acting on the request of the hotel — zapped her post. I have asked TripAdvisor to comment on this and will update this story when I hear back from the site.
Yostos asked me what to do, and frankly, I don’t know.
The people who were there said I should keep it up. The only thing they really did was just move the front desk person to another place where not dealing with guests. I feel like this guy went through everything because of the bad review on the Web site and now thinks i should take it down since he was so ‘responsive’.
Personally, I would never go back there myself…so i dont know, which is why im asking your professional opinion.
Nothing she said in her review appears to be false. But at the same time, it appears that her concerns are being addressed by the hotel.
What to do?
What would you do?
(Photo illustration: nataliej/Flickr Creative Commons)
Update (2 p.m.): Yostos has investigated the disappearance of her review:
I went onto my account and it says I never posted anything.
I was considering of being nice and adding something to say the hotel has responded, but an event is an event…and this happened and it could happen to someone else. It’s just like if you saw a rat in the room and you write a review about that.
Thanks for your help with this! I appreciate it. I guess they did the dirty work for me and removed the review so that the hotel could keep its excellent reputation. I’m contemplating writing to the manager of the Grand Hotel asking if they had anything to do with it. I find it suspicious that it disappeared after the manager asked me to remove my post.
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Personally, I wouldn’t have put the report up in the first place.
Ms. Yostos had a problem with a criminal in a restaurant that was not owned by the hotel. Why complain about the hotel?
If I were Ms. Yostos I would not have deleted my earlier review but would have submitted an additional review, referencing the first, and indicating the follow-up the hotel has made. This would allow for potential customers to have a more full and complete picture of the situation and to subsequently make a more informed decision about where they chose to stay.
Mary; if I were you drop it; yes losing a wallet with credit cards ids money is terrible; Truethe clerk was miserable; however several employees as you stated did attempt to pursue the men at risk to themselves; they could have been injured; you also in attempting to pursue thecriminals placed your life in jeopardy; they could have been armed with guns and on drugs; no possession is worth your life. YOU were not a guest at the hotel; you could not comment on the rooms , quality of service comfort, so you could not really give the hotel a fair evaluation; had the incident happened in your room yes. You were also negligent in leaving your purse on a bench.
Unfortunate incident. Until further information comes to light, the take away for me is that I no longer trust Trip Advisor.
barbie 45–I think I had a valid reason to complain whether or not I stayed in the hotel. I was on their premisis when a crime occured and the front desk was extremely unhelpful. I take full blame for not keeping my purse in safeguard. My review was posted simply because steps of basic customer service did not happen and were not intially resolved, hence my post.
I think anyone in my situation would have taken similiar steps if an establishment refused to call the police, whether it be a restaurant, hotel, etc….and could potentially affect my decision in the future to stay at the hotel…a crime is a crime…
For now, I’m done posting on this topic since I think the general consensus that tripadvisor.com should not have removed the post without my knowledge, especially since it happened within 24 hrs of my last correspondence with the hotel asking me to take down the post. I may consider reposting this on tripadvisor.com with an explanation that a hotel manager was responsive to my concerns, however I’m a little wary if they will even post it or delete it after my post.
Wow! Some of the comments here are frankly, a bit harsh. After all, Ms Yostos is the VICTIM here. Careless? yes. Negligent? no.
Regardless of whether she booked a room at the Grand Hotel or whether the restaurant is an independent entitiy or part of the hotel, she is still a GUEST of the hotel. You do not need to book a room to be be a guest of a hotel. She had interaction with hotel staff and has every right to comment on her experience.
Her post was not malicious and described events that did happen. For those skeptics, the hotel even acknowledges it occured. There is no TOS violation and the post was made in good faith to the terms and conditions of Tripadvisor.
Ms Yostos, it seems most reasonable readers agree with your position. I would still encourage you to follow up with Tripadvisor and post (or share with Chris Elliott) the explainations. Thanks!
Chris
I say keep it up, but add an addendum. The fact is the hotel dropped the ball, and now they’re scrambling to make up for it. Just because a hotel tries to make amends *after the fact* is not a reason to pull the review. And to me, not taking responsibility (the restaurant isn’t part of the hotel is a crock) shows that they really aren’t customer-centric.
TripAdvisor has their own rules, I think – I’ve had posts zapped, which simply gave a poor review and the property must have had TripAdvisor pull it. I find that unfair.
I would not edit or change the initial review.
I’d suggest to put up the review again, only this time including a complete evaluation of the hotel, something like:
Rooms: Ok
Amenities: Ok
Staff: Not-Ok, they didn’t help me when my purse got stolen, bla bla bla…
That way every TripAdvisor reader can decide whether or not to stay there…
While it is not the hotel’s fault that her wallet was stolen, I do find it strange that the front desk would not call the police. The fact that the restaurant is a separate entity is really not relevant. It is in the same building, and anyone who comes into the place is going to associate the hotel with the restaurant whether you want them to or not. Plus, it is just common courtesy to call the police if someone is in trouble. The hotel has acknowledged that this was not the correct response and has removed that person from his position, so I think perhaps Ms. Yostos could amend her review and acknowledge this response.
The fact is there are very few hotels where a situation like this could be prevented. Unless someone is standing there checking room keys, which would very time consuming, there is nothing to stop a criminal from coming in. I stayed in a hotel in Las Vegas (can’t remember which one) that did have a security guard doing this, but it was only for people going up to the rooms. You can’t stop anyone from entering a restaurant or a common area.
With most situations, it’s usually not the negative event itself that upsets the customer; it’s the company’s response to it, which is often not acceptable–hence the need for sites like this one. It seems like the hotel has responded acceptably in this case.
Duke ; she cannot evaluate the rooms or ammenities; she did not stay there. She lost her purse because of her negligence. Actually 36 excellent review; hey I might nbe tempted to stay there if I was in Minnesota. I would avoid the restaurant; the reviews were not that great on it; Plus I am sure there are far more excellent restaurants in the area.
I would have left the post up and written a second one to let readers know what follow-up actions were taken to address her concerns. This would allow future travelers to get a more complete picture of the situation and make a more informed decision on whether to stay at that hotel. It might be in the hotel’s favor for people to see that it attempted to resolve the issue.
Regardless of whether the hotel directly owned the restaurant or not, it was part of their property and should take necessary steps to ensure safety. I could care less if it’s a “public” area, the hotel has a responsibility for anything that happens on the property. The whole “lease agreement” excuse is a bit lame. I’m not saying they need to bulk up security or interrigate anyone heading to the restaurant. They should still be mindful of everything going on. I am not a legal expert, but I bet when the theaf crossed through the “real” hotel property to get to the exit, the hotel could be seen as liable.
The owner of a Panama hotel asked me to post on Trip Advisor when I got back to the U.S., because he knew me as a repeat customer and that I was extemely happy with the lodging, food and service. At the time of my return home, Trip Advisor was in the midst of its previous controversy of taking down negative reviews. Thus, I did not post, even though I had nothing negative to say. After all, I prefer an honest website. This incident only adds insult to injury, so Trip Advisor will no longer be part of my research on travel destinations. I will not miss it.
I agree with ‘Duke Nukem’ – full disclosure on property review and amendments when the hotel has taken additional action on the complaint.
The fact is personal items can be stolen any time, anywhere and travelers are vulnerable because of their unfamiliarity with their surroundings.
It seems to me that we have to esablish standards for removing a negative post. A negative review should be removed if it contains factual errors. For example, I filled out a review for a hotel giving the bed a horrible review, calling it hard as cast iron.
I got a call from the GM, who explained that the bed was a sleep number bed. Stupid me. I didn’t know that. The previous guest set it on the firmest setting. Thus, my review was based on an incorrect understanding of the facts. I removed the review and apologied profusely to the manager.
But in this case, the review appears to be factually accurate given that the hotel doesn’t dispute any of the facts. Therefore the review should remain along with the hotel’s remediation so that potential guests can make an informed decision.
I would remove the review based on relevancy. I’m a frequent TripAdvisor user and I use the site for hotel reviews. Although what happened to her was tragic, her posting had nothing to do with the writer’s experience as a hotel guest (she notes she was staying at the Marriott), but rather, as a patron of a restaurant that happened to be located on the hotel property. If anything, the posting should have been added to the restaurant’s reviews, not the hotel’s.
Mary; as a footnote you should mention the valets who placed their own safety in peril; we all are aware o fthe obnoxious desk clerk who was completely unresponsive. they could have been harmed in pursuit of the criminals ; give credit where credit is due.
I do not consider a review/comment on Trip ADvisor was appropriate as malgre as it had nought to do with the hotel and a letter to the GM voicing yr complaint
was more in order.
This not withstanding, I noticed that Trip Advisor did not post a review of mine of an hotel which was v. positive but contained a small onservation that no transport facilities were available for guests (hotel is in rather a remote area of Egypt).
As a result, I will never write another review on the site and can only assume that Trip Advisor is now running sacred of potential legal involvement which
negates its former value as what many regarded was an honest independent
site of value to travellers.
They have lost my trust even though, as above, I consider this particular comment was out of order.
I once read a review of a restaurant in DelrayBeach which I use their delivery service for an item I especially like. Three people commented negatively ; I thought the review for the pizza was a sort of silly; but I did agree with his assessment of the manager. He is not to bright; I did not right my own review which would have been soso; however I did inform the manager about what I had read and dropped the ball in his lap. I do not want anyone spitting in my food as retaliation.
The review should have remained up with an addendum. Trip Advisor had no right to remove the review, and it makes me question the usefulness of their reviews. Had Ms. Yostos not written her review the hotel would not have removed the incompetent individual (who had performed poorly in the past!) and other customers would not have been protected from his rude behavior. Shame on Trip Advisor for taking the review down!
Here is my addendum: I only hope that I can rely on the accuracy of Lonely Planet because I now question the reliability of the reviews that I read on Trip Advisor. Still find the forums useful, though.
Well, that’s the last time I ever navigate to TripAdvisor! And I sure won’t stay at the Grand Hotel in Minneapolis.
When will these companies ever realize that customers are their lifeblood, and that going above and beyond can generate incredible word-of-mouth that drives business their way? Instead, these hotels and websites prefer to screw their customers, and that’s why people in general hold such a negative opinion of these companies.
It’s sad how many people hold their nose while booking travel these days. It should be something to look forward to, not something to dread. Shame on the Grand Hotel, shame on TripAdvisor, and shame on the travel industry.
I am deeply concerned about these “review sites” removing posts that THEY themselves solicit, at the whim of a company with influence, money or power. I had a similar experience with Yelp.com. I have lost all faith in these two websites to provide and maintain honest reviews. I know now from personal experience not to trust the rating system for anything – from doctors to hotels because I know how quickly the review sites will cave in to the pressure from the company or individual with the most money and the loudest lawyer. It’s a shame. Travelers have the right to make their own assessment of these reviews as well as see the positive or negative response a company provides, if any. Sometimes, a positive response from the company or an positive update from the original reviewer can be the best “free” PR they ever spent money on.
Trip Advisor is LYING! I posted a negative review of a hotel in Iowa. Iy was up for a week or so and BAM – Gone into thin air as if it had never been submitted. Tripadvisor is fishy. I don’t trust them anymore.
I believe it was fine for the posting to be done as it was and if TripAdvisor removed it “shame on them!” All the reviewer was doing was informing others of a situation that occurred so that other women travelers would be more cautious in knowing how to beware of thier surroundings should they make a visit to this restaurant within the hotel.
I would not delete the comment and if it was deleted I would then re-post with the update. One looks to these reviews to get the good and the bad for a property. When I see Something bad, i also look to see if the resolution was handled correctly. if it was then I have more faith in the property. if the resolution was not handled correctly or within a timely manner then they drop down a notch on my scale of properties to drop my $ at..
Trip Advisor is a free service; Nowhere do I see a promise they will post your comment. Nor do I see any policy about deleting a post. If they charge for the service that is different; Until I find a better one , I will continue to refer to it.
If reviews are being deleted by a web site’s management then the word needs to get out via other web sites that reviews are being deleted.
barbi- Great statement, but here is my problem with it. Yes, Tripadvisor is a free service….but it is a free service that depends on advertising dollars to function. What industies advertise with Tripadvisor? The very industries that are being reviewed. They don’t charge you to search reviews or to post reviews but they do in fact charge companies to advertise and for the search engine provided to find discounted deals.
Now if Brand X hotel is paying $$ for advertising with Tripadvisor and one of their management team members searches the reviews and finds a few that are damaging to Brand X…….don’t you think Brand X is going to use their Trump card and tell Tripadvisor to get rid of it. If the economy is bad for the travel industry I am sure it isn’t spectacular for travel review companies either and keeping their bread buttered is logical.
Why is she giving the hotel a bad review and not the restaurant? Why did she ask the front desk staff for help but not the restaurant staff? Because they are in the same building? The mall in my town has a Payless and a 9 West but I would never criticize 9 West for receiving bad shoes from Payless, even though they are in the same building.
Yes, the front desk staff could have been more helpful. But, they are paid to be there to help the hotel guests not the restaurant customers. Just because you aren’t working at a business doesn’t automatically make you a customer. To be a customer you must spend money. The restaurant staff should have been the ones handling this event, calling 9-1-1 when the lady ran off to chase the thief. Yet, no one has even mentioned the server or manager. Why is that?
Michelle, you are so right. It is not the consumer reports of the travel industry. Even with Consumer Reports I sometimes wonder.Trip Advisor is from what I have read is affiliated with Expedia. Still I enjoy reading it,but do not treat it as gospel.
Anne , I have been wondering the same thing and Iagree with you. Yes the restaurant should have called 911. Also the party as reported by several in attendance suggests the purses were piled up without being attended. Common sense dictates that leaving your bag unattended is not wise. I went to a bar to have lunch as the restaurant was crowded,and Iwas alone. I placed my bag on a vacant seat next to me. A police officer who was eating there very nicely told me what I had done was not to smart.Since then I have been very careful.
I’d have to say that since she wasn’t actually a guest of the hotel and merely went through it to get to and from the restaurant, I don’t see why the hotel should be slammed.
It’s a shame it happened, but slamming the hotel seems pointless.
The hotel is not at fault. Crime can occur anywhere. If you leave your wallet, purse, etc., somewhere and if you are not holding onto it, then if someone takes something out of it (or just takes the item), then that theft is due to your own negligence. Failing to take responsibility for not properly securing your property is your own fault. Asking the hotel to weed out unsavory characters from a public restaurant is fanciful at best.
Now, if the wallet was taken from her purse by force, that is robbery, and even then the hotel would not be at fault, because crime can happen anywhere. But this was not a case of robbery, as her wallet wouldn’t have been stolen if she kept her purse and wallet on her and didn’t let anyone take anything from it.
More than likely, the OP left her purse on a table or hanging over her chair, with her wallet therein. I have little sympathy for her plight…but perhaps she will have learned to be more careful. Or perhaps the lesson that she learned is that she shouldn’t trust Trip Advisor … which might not be the best lesson to take from this situation.
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