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	<title>Comments on: Please don&#8217;t use the C-word at this airline fee conference</title>
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	<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/</link>
	<description>The travel troubleshooter.</description>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24874</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 07:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24874</guid>
		<description>Guess why the industry has to go down this road? Because YOU (and me) the consumer have been educated not to pay the cost of the product in the ticket price. Guess what? A ticket from LA to New York at $99 does not cover the long term costs of operating an airline and a fleet of aircraft. A planeful at $99 does not do it either. How about $199? $399? $500....woah, that&#039;s getting a bit high. Oh dear, need to find other ways of getting some $$$

If bananas only cost 1 cent, someone would be charging you another 49 cents to peel it.

And just for the record, dynamic currency conversion means YOU pay less $$ for tickets bought in foreign currency. Wicked? I don&#039;t think so. Go do your homework properly, Elliott!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guess why the industry has to go down this road? Because YOU (and me) the consumer have been educated not to pay the cost of the product in the ticket price. Guess what? A ticket from LA to New York at $99 does not cover the long term costs of operating an airline and a fleet of aircraft. A planeful at $99 does not do it either. How about $199? $399? $500&#8230;.woah, that&#8217;s getting a bit high. Oh dear, need to find other ways of getting some $$$</p>
<p>If bananas only cost 1 cent, someone would be charging you another 49 cents to peel it.</p>
<p>And just for the record, dynamic currency conversion means YOU pay less $$ for tickets bought in foreign currency. Wicked? I don&#8217;t think so. Go do your homework properly, Elliott!</p>
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		<title>By: Koala</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24485</link>
		<dc:creator>Koala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24485</guid>
		<description>A topic that received some publicity last week are the taxes on each airline ticket that go into a general federal aviation slushfund. The money is then distributed to general aviation airports throughout the nation. With some exceptions, most general aviation airports are lightly used and do not deserve the massive infusions of cash they receive each year to subsidize their operations. 

In my opinion, it is a huge misallocation of resources that subsidizes wealthy private plane owners and corporate aviation at the expense of ordinary air travelers. 

Taxes on airline tickets should be lower and the USA as a country should stop squandering limited resources to keep these little used and out of the way airports in business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A topic that received some publicity last week are the taxes on each airline ticket that go into a general federal aviation slushfund. The money is then distributed to general aviation airports throughout the nation. With some exceptions, most general aviation airports are lightly used and do not deserve the massive infusions of cash they receive each year to subsidize their operations. </p>
<p>In my opinion, it is a huge misallocation of resources that subsidizes wealthy private plane owners and corporate aviation at the expense of ordinary air travelers. </p>
<p>Taxes on airline tickets should be lower and the USA as a country should stop squandering limited resources to keep these little used and out of the way airports in business.</p>
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		<title>By: David Z</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24455</link>
		<dc:creator>David Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24455</guid>
		<description>@Boib3 

Yup. If those big airline CEOs speak, it&#039;ll turn off lots of people anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Boib3 </p>
<p>Yup. If those big airline CEOs speak, it&#8217;ll turn off lots of people anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe R</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24448</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24448</guid>
		<description>I think sometimes people need to step back and realize that when they a &quot;company&quot; is making these decisions, it&#039;s really *people* making them.

Yes, a company should make money.  But currently, it&#039;s the individuals who close their eyes to the affects their decisions have on the public that are responsible for these things.  

Don&#039;t blame the company, blame the people making the decisions and trying to take advantage of as much financial gain as they can.

As someone posted earlier, just because it&#039;s legal, doesn&#039;t make it right.

People making these decisions at the companies don&#039;t care about what&#039;s &quot;right&quot;... just what will make themselves more money.  Screw the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think sometimes people need to step back and realize that when they a &#8220;company&#8221; is making these decisions, it&#8217;s really *people* making them.</p>
<p>Yes, a company should make money.  But currently, it&#8217;s the individuals who close their eyes to the affects their decisions have on the public that are responsible for these things.  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t blame the company, blame the people making the decisions and trying to take advantage of as much financial gain as they can.</p>
<p>As someone posted earlier, just because it&#8217;s legal, doesn&#8217;t make it right.</p>
<p>People making these decisions at the companies don&#8217;t care about what&#8217;s &#8220;right&#8221;&#8230; just what will make themselves more money.  Screw the public.</p>
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		<title>By: Boib3</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24443</link>
		<dc:creator>Boib3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24443</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, has anyone noticed the primary speakers are all from &quot;low fare&quot; airlines?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, has anyone noticed the primary speakers are all from &#8220;low fare&#8221; airlines?</p>
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		<title>By: David Z</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24422</link>
		<dc:creator>David Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24422</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think the issue at hand is HOW they are going about it. This being DISHONEST and DECEITFUL methods. For example, listing a fare at “150″ dollars only to find it’s nearly doubled by the time you go pay for it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s a so-called given that businesses want to make the most money out of whatever they&#039;re selling. But most if not all travel vendors do state prices aren&#039;t guaranteed until booked. 

I rather agree that some are arguably being dishonest and deceitful when not stating upfront what fees will be charged like, say, upon arriving at the hotel. While it&#039;s nice if vendors&#039; web sites do state the fees upfront, what if it &quot;scares&quot; off some prospects to finding those that &lt;b&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/b&gt; say it at the front but mention it after the fact?

In essence, that&#039;s a dilemma many businesses face. How much to state upfront and how much isn&#039;t &quot;needed&quot; to be said there and then that would affect desired results.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Issue #2 is the fact that airlines are NOT lowering prices in conjunction with this whole new charge for baggage push. Matter of fact, prices have stayed steady or gone up for the most part.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t know, Justin. While not necessarily authoritative, some sites like Kayak seem to suggest otherwise:

http://www.kayak.com/trends/Down

Limitations apply like everything else, of course. If anything, their data suggests fares have been going down for the past year or so.

DOT&#039;s site seems to report a similar thing. There&#039;s more if/when one looks hard enough there:

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/air_travel_price_index.html

Frustrating, I know. But...that&#039;s reality sometimes.

And don&#039;t fret as these aren&#039;t meant to dishonestly overshadow the bigger picture. Whatever that bigger picture is that people can pretty much agree on, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think the issue at hand is HOW they are going about it. This being DISHONEST and DECEITFUL methods. For example, listing a fare at “150″ dollars only to find it’s nearly doubled by the time you go pay for it.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s a so-called given that businesses want to make the most money out of whatever they&#8217;re selling. But most if not all travel vendors do state prices aren&#8217;t guaranteed until booked. </p>
<p>I rather agree that some are arguably being dishonest and deceitful when not stating upfront what fees will be charged like, say, upon arriving at the hotel. While it&#8217;s nice if vendors&#8217; web sites do state the fees upfront, what if it &#8220;scares&#8221; off some prospects to finding those that <b>don&#8217;t</b> say it at the front but mention it after the fact?</p>
<p>In essence, that&#8217;s a dilemma many businesses face. How much to state upfront and how much isn&#8217;t &#8220;needed&#8221; to be said there and then that would affect desired results.</p>
<blockquote><p>Issue #2 is the fact that airlines are NOT lowering prices in conjunction with this whole new charge for baggage push. Matter of fact, prices have stayed steady or gone up for the most part.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t know, Justin. While not necessarily authoritative, some sites like Kayak seem to suggest otherwise:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kayak.com/trends/Down" rel="nofollow">http://www.kayak.com/trends/Down</a></p>
<p>Limitations apply like everything else, of course. If anything, their data suggests fares have been going down for the past year or so.</p>
<p>DOT&#8217;s site seems to report a similar thing. There&#8217;s more if/when one looks hard enough there:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/air_travel_price_index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/air_travel_price_index.html</a></p>
<p>Frustrating, I know. But&#8230;that&#8217;s reality sometimes.</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t fret as these aren&#8217;t meant to dishonestly overshadow the bigger picture. Whatever that bigger picture is that people can pretty much agree on, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasper</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24405</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24405</guid>
		<description>@ Jesse: &lt;i&gt;Every company’s primary goal is to make more money and increase shareholder value.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes it is. But what do you care as a customer? As long as you are not a shareholder of that company, their interests are not yours. As a consumer, you are interested in getting the most value for your money. If a company does not give that to you, you move on to the next one. And then the company has lost a returning customer and hence lost money.

And let&#039;s not forget that airlines are doing miserably. They blame everything for that, 9/11, recession, economy. But they never blame their own despicable behavior. No, they revel in it, and perfect it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jesse: <i>Every company’s primary goal is to make more money and increase shareholder value.</i></p>
<p>Yes it is. But what do you care as a customer? As long as you are not a shareholder of that company, their interests are not yours. As a consumer, you are interested in getting the most value for your money. If a company does not give that to you, you move on to the next one. And then the company has lost a returning customer and hence lost money.</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s not forget that airlines are doing miserably. They blame everything for that, 9/11, recession, economy. But they never blame their own despicable behavior. No, they revel in it, and perfect it.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Wechsler</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24402</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Wechsler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24402</guid>
		<description>@Carver
Knowing that the bus fare is $39, it should be obvious to you that a $29 airfare is unprofitable and therefore unsustainable, at least for American. This raises the question of the motive for offering such a low fare. It is also a dubious assumption that the $29 fare results from unbundling whatever was included in the $170 of years past. Competitive pressures have far more to do with that than the cost of food, baggage handling etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Carver<br />
Knowing that the bus fare is $39, it should be obvious to you that a $29 airfare is unprofitable and therefore unsustainable, at least for American. This raises the question of the motive for offering such a low fare. It is also a dubious assumption that the $29 fare results from unbundling whatever was included in the $170 of years past. Competitive pressures have far more to do with that than the cost of food, baggage handling etc.</p>
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		<title>By: jrgal331</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24398</link>
		<dc:creator>jrgal331</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24398</guid>
		<description>DCC is common place with merchants who accept foreign credit cards.  There is no additional cost to the consumer and a way for companies to reduce credit card fees.  It&#039;s a myth you actually make money on this... rather you reduce the credit card fee by .25% or so by taking advantage of flucuating exchange rates.

Aside from that one meeting... this conference appears to be all about sticking it to the consumer more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DCC is common place with merchants who accept foreign credit cards.  There is no additional cost to the consumer and a way for companies to reduce credit card fees.  It&#8217;s a myth you actually make money on this&#8230; rather you reduce the credit card fee by .25% or so by taking advantage of flucuating exchange rates.</p>
<p>Aside from that one meeting&#8230; this conference appears to be all about sticking it to the consumer more.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/please-dont-use-the-c-word-at-this-airline-fee-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-24395</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8520#comment-24395</guid>
		<description>@ Carver,

Citing a few examples to overshadow the bigger picture is downright dishonest.  Do airlines deserve a profit? Of course, this is American and people need to make a living.  A company would not exist if it didn&#039;t maintain a positive revenue to pay it&#039;s workers and have reinvestment capital.  I think the issue at hand is HOW they are going about it.  This being DISHONEST and DECEITFUL methods.   For example, listing a fare at &quot;150&quot; dollars only to find it&#039;s nearly doubled by the time you go pay for it. Airline bills look just as bad as phone company ones.  You see so many &quot;B.S.&quot; made up fees that by the time you&#039;re done, you are left to wonder which one&#039;s are real, and which are shams that the airline simply pockets.   Issue #2 is the fact that airlines are NOT lowering prices in conjunction with this whole new charge for baggage push.  Matter of fact, prices have stayed steady or gone up for the most part.  As Elliott points out, airlines are RAKING in the capital.  The big legacy one&#039;s anyway.  Certainly, smaller one&#039;s weren&#039;t.  ATA, Spirit, etc that went under.  With so few choices left, these big boys now have an open playing field and they KNOW the customer is powerless.  If you have only a few choices, your wallet can&#039;t really talk too loud.

Justin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Carver,</p>
<p>Citing a few examples to overshadow the bigger picture is downright dishonest.  Do airlines deserve a profit? Of course, this is American and people need to make a living.  A company would not exist if it didn&#8217;t maintain a positive revenue to pay it&#8217;s workers and have reinvestment capital.  I think the issue at hand is HOW they are going about it.  This being DISHONEST and DECEITFUL methods.   For example, listing a fare at &#8220;150&#8243; dollars only to find it&#8217;s nearly doubled by the time you go pay for it. Airline bills look just as bad as phone company ones.  You see so many &#8220;B.S.&#8221; made up fees that by the time you&#8217;re done, you are left to wonder which one&#8217;s are real, and which are shams that the airline simply pockets.   Issue #2 is the fact that airlines are NOT lowering prices in conjunction with this whole new charge for baggage push.  Matter of fact, prices have stayed steady or gone up for the most part.  As Elliott points out, airlines are RAKING in the capital.  The big legacy one&#8217;s anyway.  Certainly, smaller one&#8217;s weren&#8217;t.  ATA, Spirit, etc that went under.  With so few choices left, these big boys now have an open playing field and they KNOW the customer is powerless.  If you have only a few choices, your wallet can&#8217;t really talk too loud.</p>
<p>Justin</p>
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