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	<title>Comments on: Now that fuel surcharges are being dropped, how &#8217;bout a refund?</title>
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	<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/</link>
	<description>The travel troubleshooter.</description>
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		<title>By: London78</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-16121</link>
		<dc:creator>London78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-16121</guid>
		<description>I have seen many situations similar to this - keep in mind that you purchase a ticket and then the next day the airline ADDS a $400 surcharge, they aren&#039;t calling you asking you for the $400 either.

It&#039;s kind of like buying gas, if you buy it one day and it goes down the next, you can&#039;t go back to the gas station and ask for the difference back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen many situations similar to this &#8211; keep in mind that you purchase a ticket and then the next day the airline ADDS a $400 surcharge, they aren&#8217;t calling you asking you for the $400 either.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of like buying gas, if you buy it one day and it goes down the next, you can&#8217;t go back to the gas station and ask for the difference back.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15707</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15707</guid>
		<description>[...]If you bought a Blu-Ray player, then came back two months later on Black Friday and it was reduced $100, the local department store is unlikely to give you the difference.

The airline industry is the only industry in which this is an expectation.[...]

Actually, that&#039;s not true. Let&#039;s use your example. If I buy a Blu-Ray player and don&#039;t use it. Then the exact same model goes on sale later, I can very well return the item and buy another at the reduced price.

Airline tickets aren&#039;t fungible like other items. Whether they should be or not is another topic. If one could buy and sell tickets easily, this problem would not exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]If you bought a Blu-Ray player, then came back two months later on Black Friday and it was reduced $100, the local department store is unlikely to give you the difference.</p>
<p>The airline industry is the only industry in which this is an expectation.[...]</p>
<p>Actually, that&#8217;s not true. Let&#8217;s use your example. If I buy a Blu-Ray player and don&#8217;t use it. Then the exact same model goes on sale later, I can very well return the item and buy another at the reduced price.</p>
<p>Airline tickets aren&#8217;t fungible like other items. Whether they should be or not is another topic. If one could buy and sell tickets easily, this problem would not exist.</p>
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		<title>By: For more loyal customers, talk to them. : stirtz.info</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15689</link>
		<dc:creator>For more loyal customers, talk to them. : stirtz.info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 18:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15689</guid>
		<description>[...] pro Chris Elliot informs us that Virgin Airlines has rescinded their fuel surcharges. Bravo! Good move on their part. With [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] pro Chris Elliot informs us that Virgin Airlines has rescinded their fuel surcharges. Bravo! Good move on their part. With [...]</p>
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		<title>By: August</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15639</link>
		<dc:creator>August</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15639</guid>
		<description>I am  very interested in the outcome of this specific incident (is it a dead issue, or still being pursued?), and the topic in general. I completely agree that it would/could/SHOULD be viewed as an opportunity for a PR coup (public relations, not Philippine Air..to be clear, ha). Let&#039;s see if any airline will be bold enought to do so....

As for using the system, well, they&#039;ve covered their backsides there too. Here are typical fare rules from Virgin:

IF THE NEW ITINERARY RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE     
          CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY AND NO REFUND WILL BE MADE     
          IN THE EVENT OF SUBSEQUENT CANCELLATION THE ORIGIN   
          NON-REFUNDABLE AMOUNT WILL REMAIN NON-REFUNDABLE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am  very interested in the outcome of this specific incident (is it a dead issue, or still being pursued?), and the topic in general. I completely agree that it would/could/SHOULD be viewed as an opportunity for a PR coup (public relations, not Philippine Air..to be clear, ha). Let&#8217;s see if any airline will be bold enought to do so&#8230;.</p>
<p>As for using the system, well, they&#8217;ve covered their backsides there too. Here are typical fare rules from Virgin:</p>
<p>IF THE NEW ITINERARY RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE<br />
          CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY AND NO REFUND WILL BE MADE<br />
          IN THE EVENT OF SUBSEQUENT CANCELLATION THE ORIGIN<br />
          NON-REFUNDABLE AMOUNT WILL REMAIN NON-REFUNDABLE.</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart Sheinfeld</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15626</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Sheinfeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15626</guid>
		<description>If Virgin operates like the other airlines there should be an oppurtunity to use the system. Cancel the flight and rebok paying the  $ 100-150 &quot;change fee&quot; you would at least be ahead $250</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Virgin operates like the other airlines there should be an oppurtunity to use the system. Cancel the flight and rebok paying the  $ 100-150 &#8220;change fee&#8221; you would at least be ahead $250</p>
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		<title>By: Lianne</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15618</link>
		<dc:creator>Lianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15618</guid>
		<description>@ Flight Wisdom Guru

&gt;&gt;The airline industry is the only industry in which this is an expectation. That is the price lowers, you’ll get your money back in the form of a voucher or possibly even a refund.&lt;&gt;But as defined by the airlines, they are part of the fare. &lt;&gt;What is fair anymore? Especially in this industry. We’d like to hear an answer that satisfies the airline’s need to survive financially with the passenger’s need for reasonable prices and service. None seems forthcoming from the industry.&lt;&lt;

What&#039;s fair is the airline charging what is takes to operate their plane. Surcharges are a cop-out.  They allow the industry to say &quot;We&#039;re soooooooooo sorry, here is the price we&#039;d like to charge you...but the meany-faced oil peoples are making things soooooo expensive that we got to charge you extra. Hope you don&#039;t mind! &quot;

By doing this the airlines give the illusion (a) that price increases are out of their control and (b) that these prices increases are temporary.  Now in Mr. Gornick&#039;s case (b) turned out to be a reality.  The most fair thing to do is for Virgin to state that all passengers on flights after X date will not be required to pay fuel surcharges as we have determined they are no longer required. Passengers who purchased tickets for these flights who have paid fuel charges will be compensated in the form of...a discount on a future flight, partial refund, a free upgrade on a future flight...something besides &quot;Sorry! SOL!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Flight Wisdom Guru</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;The airline industry is the only industry in which this is an expectation. That is the price lowers, you’ll get your money back in the form of a voucher or possibly even a refund.&lt;&gt;But as defined by the airlines, they are part of the fare. &lt;&gt;What is fair anymore? Especially in this industry. We’d like to hear an answer that satisfies the airline’s need to survive financially with the passenger’s need for reasonable prices and service. None seems forthcoming from the industry.&lt;&lt;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s fair is the airline charging what is takes to operate their plane. Surcharges are a cop-out.  They allow the industry to say &#8220;We&#8217;re soooooooooo sorry, here is the price we&#8217;d like to charge you&#8230;but the meany-faced oil peoples are making things soooooo expensive that we got to charge you extra. Hope you don&#8217;t mind! &#8221;</p>
<p>By doing this the airlines give the illusion (a) that price increases are out of their control and (b) that these prices increases are temporary.  Now in Mr. Gornick&#8217;s case (b) turned out to be a reality.  The most fair thing to do is for Virgin to state that all passengers on flights after X date will not be required to pay fuel surcharges as we have determined they are no longer required. Passengers who purchased tickets for these flights who have paid fuel charges will be compensated in the form of&#8230;a discount on a future flight, partial refund, a free upgrade on a future flight&#8230;something besides &#8220;Sorry! SOL!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Flight Wisdom Guru</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15612</link>
		<dc:creator>Flight Wisdom Guru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15612</guid>
		<description>We have to criticize to some degree the way you go about these stories. Now, we are against fuel surcharges, and agree that there is no point to them, and the price should instead be rolled into the fare.  

But as defined by the airlines, they are part of the fare. They show up in a ticket in the fare calculation, and contribute to the base fare. They don&#039;t show up in the taxes and charges on the ticket. Just like the airlines do not provide a refund when the fare goes up, why should they when the fare goes down when you agreed to the higher price?

Many companies, both in and out of the travel industry, choose to honor lower prices, often within a time period, but most do not. If you bought a Blu-Ray player, then came back two months later on Black Friday and it was reduced $100, the local department store is unlikely to give you the difference.

The airline industry is the only industry in which this is an expectation. That is the price lowers, you&#039;ll get your money back in the form of a voucher or possibly even a refund.  Of course, the travel industry is the only one where the people around you can be paying 20 different prices for the same seat. Or where the privilege of exchanging a service even the day after purchase results in a fee possibly more than the price of the service itself.

What is fair anymore? Especially in this industry. We&#039;d like to hear an answer that satisfies the airline&#039;s need to survive financially with the passenger&#039;s need for reasonable prices and service. None seems forthcoming from the industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have to criticize to some degree the way you go about these stories. Now, we are against fuel surcharges, and agree that there is no point to them, and the price should instead be rolled into the fare.  </p>
<p>But as defined by the airlines, they are part of the fare. They show up in a ticket in the fare calculation, and contribute to the base fare. They don&#8217;t show up in the taxes and charges on the ticket. Just like the airlines do not provide a refund when the fare goes up, why should they when the fare goes down when you agreed to the higher price?</p>
<p>Many companies, both in and out of the travel industry, choose to honor lower prices, often within a time period, but most do not. If you bought a Blu-Ray player, then came back two months later on Black Friday and it was reduced $100, the local department store is unlikely to give you the difference.</p>
<p>The airline industry is the only industry in which this is an expectation. That is the price lowers, you&#8217;ll get your money back in the form of a voucher or possibly even a refund.  Of course, the travel industry is the only one where the people around you can be paying 20 different prices for the same seat. Or where the privilege of exchanging a service even the day after purchase results in a fee possibly more than the price of the service itself.</p>
<p>What is fair anymore? Especially in this industry. We&#8217;d like to hear an answer that satisfies the airline&#8217;s need to survive financially with the passenger&#8217;s need for reasonable prices and service. None seems forthcoming from the industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Customer Service Speaker and Trainer - The Amazing Service Guy - Kevin Stirtz &#187; Customer Service Articles &#187; For more loyal customers, talk to them.</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15609</link>
		<dc:creator>Customer Service Speaker and Trainer - The Amazing Service Guy - Kevin Stirtz &#187; Customer Service Articles &#187; For more loyal customers, talk to them.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15609</guid>
		<description>[...] pro Chris Elliot informs us that Virgin Airlines has rescinded their fuel surcharges. Bravo! Good move on their part. With [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] pro Chris Elliot informs us that Virgin Airlines has rescinded their fuel surcharges. Bravo! Good move on their part. With [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Farrell</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15605</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15605</guid>
		<description>and therein lies the problem with surcharges for a specific reason.   When the specific reason goes away, so does the reason for the surcharge.

This causes all sorts of problems.  As we see here.  The fair thing to raise the price of the fare to cover the cost of providing the service.  That being too simple, the travel industry creates even more ill will when it then refuses to refund money for something they never paid, like a high fuel surcharge when at the time of travel fuel costs are not high.

Its like the Budget RAC at Charleston, SC airport.  When I looked at my bill I saw a &#039;fuel surcharge.&#039;  I asked what it was for - and was told with a straight face - for the shuttle.  

The problem, you walk to your car this airport.  when I pointed that out, the sales person got the manager who explained it was for the shuttle to brings cars and employees back and forth to the &#039;yard.&#039;    I objected again and it was removed.  They&#039;d charge rent for the space they park the car in at the airport if they could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and therein lies the problem with surcharges for a specific reason.   When the specific reason goes away, so does the reason for the surcharge.</p>
<p>This causes all sorts of problems.  As we see here.  The fair thing to raise the price of the fare to cover the cost of providing the service.  That being too simple, the travel industry creates even more ill will when it then refuses to refund money for something they never paid, like a high fuel surcharge when at the time of travel fuel costs are not high.</p>
<p>Its like the Budget RAC at Charleston, SC airport.  When I looked at my bill I saw a &#8216;fuel surcharge.&#8217;  I asked what it was for &#8211; and was told with a straight face &#8211; for the shuttle.  </p>
<p>The problem, you walk to your car this airport.  when I pointed that out, the sales person got the manager who explained it was for the shuttle to brings cars and employees back and forth to the &#8216;yard.&#8217;    I objected again and it was removed.  They&#8217;d charge rent for the space they park the car in at the airport if they could.</p>
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		<title>By: Lianne</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/now-that-fuel-surcharges-are-being-dropped-how-bout-a-refund/comment-page-1/#comment-15604</link>
		<dc:creator>Lianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=5387#comment-15604</guid>
		<description>This is where the airlines &amp; cruiselines shot themselves in the foot.  By tacking on these &quot;surcharges&quot; instead of just raising the base fairs to compensate for the costs of fuel they create a lot of ill will.  If the price of the ticket had just dropped $400.00 Mr. Gornick probably would have just chalked it up to fluctuating ticket prices.

At least the cruiselines have put together a (complicated) system of awarding shipboard credits to passengers in order to offset the ill will of passengers. At the very least the airlines should offer something to people who are in Mr. Gornick&#039;s position: a partial refund, discount on a future flight, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is where the airlines &amp; cruiselines shot themselves in the foot.  By tacking on these &#8220;surcharges&#8221; instead of just raising the base fairs to compensate for the costs of fuel they create a lot of ill will.  If the price of the ticket had just dropped $400.00 Mr. Gornick probably would have just chalked it up to fluctuating ticket prices.</p>
<p>At least the cruiselines have put together a (complicated) system of awarding shipboard credits to passengers in order to offset the ill will of passengers. At the very least the airlines should offer something to people who are in Mr. Gornick&#8217;s position: a partial refund, discount on a future flight, etc.</p>
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