Nothing says “we don’t care” like a tray of unwanted food left in front of you for a few hours

July 14, 2010

Did Chris Hill’s mother and aunt have a bad flight on Virgin Atlantic? Without a doubt. The flight attendants were rude and the service was terrible, by their account.

Did Virgin Atlantic respond appropriately to their grievance? No, without a doubt. In fact, it didn’t respond at all.

I’ve been on countless Virgin Atlantic flights and have never seen anything like this. But I guess there’s a first time for everything.

Hill explains:

On my mum and aunt’s return home flight from Miami to London, they were not given pillows and blankets – while several passengers around them had two sets of pillows and blankets, the flight attendants failed to attempt to ask any of them if they would give up their second set, and instead one of them told them in a frosty manner that there was nothing they could do.

OK, not good. But it happens. That’s not all, though …

Also, they failed to provide them with a choice of meal, having run out of options.

Again, that’s not uncommon, and the flight attendants aren’t necessarily responsible.

The flight attendant slammed down the food on my mum’s tray and told her ‘it’s that or nothing.’

Now they’ve crossed the line.

My mom politely responded that she didn’t want the meal that had been dumped in front of her, yet the flight attendant left it there on her tray anyway.

My mum fell asleep while everyone else was eating, and woke several hours later to find the food still on the tray in front of her, long after everyone elses’ trays had been cleared. She actually had to call a flight attendant to come and remove it.

Nothing says “we don’t care” like a tray of unwanted food left in front of you for a few hours.

While the nature of these complaints may be considered trivial in comparison to passenger complaints regarding lost baggage or financial suffering, it’s my firm belief that if a company cannot satisfactorily address the small things, then how on earth can they be expected to handle the bigger problems?

And no matter, what the reason for the complaint, if a customer takes the time to write to them, they should at least receive a personal response, be it an apology, a promise to do better or whatever may be the appropriate recourse.

I agree.

I suggested Hill contact Virgin Atlantic in writing, offering a few tips on how to craft an effective complaint letter. That was back in May. He sent an email and a follow-up email to Virgin, both of which apparently were ignored.

Now, it’s possible that Virgin was just busy. Or it may have read his first problem and dismissed it, or it may have gotten to the second issue and then decided this wasn’t even worth a form response.

It doesn’t matter: Virgin should have at least sent back a canned apology. Both of these passengers, after all, were frequent fliers.

I contacted Virgin on Hill’s behalf. Yesterday, it responded:

The effect of the Icelandic volcano had a big impact on us and our priority, at that time, was the repatriation of passengers. Subsequently, this influenced our normal day-to-day workload. I am not excusing the delay; simply offering an apology and explanation for the postponed response.

I was concerned to hear about the way you feel you were treated by our cabin crew on your journey to London. I can imagine how upsetting this was for you, and I’m truly sorry. When our crew are busy serving drinks and food at the start of the flight, they’ve obviously got a lot on their plate, but this is no excuse for them being rude or inattentive – and they certainly should of taken the time to find a pillow for both of you! Our crew are trained to be helpful, warm and professional at all times – clearly this wasn’t the case in your situation.

In addition, I’m sorry to hear of the lack of meal choice. We keep a close eye on what meals are proving most popular so we can try and make sure we’ve always got enough of them. But sometimes it’s impossible to guess how many people are going to pick a particular meal and we do run out. Luckily this is very rare, but I’m sorry you missed out on a choice this time. I’ve let our catering team know about this so that we can adjust our calculations.

As a further apology, I’ve taken the liberty of crediting each of your flying club accounts with 8,000 miles. I hope this gesture goes some way to make up for the disappointment.

In closing, I would like to thank you for choosing to fly with Virgin Atlantic. I hope we’ll see you back on board again soon and I’m confident that we’ll be able to live up to your expectations.

That’s the response they should have gotten the first time they wrote to Virgin Atlantic.

(Photo: Simon sees/Flickr Creative Commons)

  • http://qbubbles.wordpress.com qbubbles

    Call me nitpicky, but they still don’t care. Made obvious by the fact that they didn’t proof read their response.

    “and they certainly should of taken the time to find a pillow for both of you”

    It’s “should have”, not “should of”.

  • John Tackeff

    Chris,
    Shame on you for helping these people. I see entitled people like these on flights all the time. They start complaining about everything, so the FA’s will just ignore them to avoid confrentation, and how do we know that Hours wasn’t just really a few minutes

  • Tina

    @John:

    I think the point of this had more to do with making a company respond to a complaint rather than finding validity in said complaint. And really, on a trans Atlantic flight, I would hope for a blanket and a pillow.

    Bottom line is that every complaint should be addressed, whether it is entitled, or totally valid.

  • Jamie LaMoreaux

    Mr. Tackeff;
    I must say I am surprised to find you so judgemental of total strangers. How do you know these two elderly women were complaining and thought themselves “entitled?” Unless you know them personally I would refrain from making snap judgements about them. From what I read (and that is ALL anyone has to go on) these women sounded like they were courteous and undemanding. But then I do not know them either. I wouldn’t shame Chris for helping someone, that is his job. shame on you.

  • cjr

    “how do we know that Hours wasn’t just really a few minutes”

    Well, it’s nice of you to assume that everybody in your world is ‘entitled’ and a liar, isn’t it? How do we know that you’re not one of these ‘entitlement’ people yourself, and simply enjoy complaining about others when you get the chance?

    In the end, there’s enough problems with the airline industry without flight attendance adding to the problem by being rude and unhelpful. If they’re going to continue to treat us like cattle, then the airlines deserve to have incidents such as the one above thrown back in their faces every time.

  • K

    To me, their issues are inconveniences that add up, but are still in the whole not worthy of a complaint. Are pillows and blankets guaranteed for every passenger? Should the FA wrestle them away from greedy people who take two sets and give them to others? Do you even want a pillow after someone else has used it? And while the FA may have been lax with the tray pick-up, the woman was sleeping. How did it affect her one way or the other? They came to get it when she called. These kind of complaints slow down the processing of replies to valid issues.

  • Raven

    I flew first class (IAH to San Juan) on Continental last week. What a joke! No pre-flight drink, rude attendants who spent more time and energy sitting up front chatting…and then there was the wedding dress.

    Someone in coach–I will call her Bridezilla–boarded carrying a HUGE wedding gown bag that by rights should’ve been checked luggage. She asked the FA’s for their help in stowing it. They spent the time while they should’ve been offering pre-flight bev service in first trying to fit it in the coat closet. After unloading all of their own bags from the closet, it fit. Then, Bridezilla made her way to the front and said it had to lay flat. One of the FA’s started to move pax luggage from first bins to accomodate. A man spoke up, and then a woman did as well. The FA snapped at them to “find some human decency” and said to the woman, “it’s a wedding gown which is more important than your laptop.”

    I was completely appalled. Let’s look at CO’s fail:

    1. Your 1st Class Pax should be your priority.
    2. How that gown got on as a carry on is a mystery. Way too big!
    3. If the gown was that important, Bridezilla should’ve kept it with her and not dumped it on the FA’s to deal with.
    4. The FA’s should’ve refused to stow it.
    5. The FA’s should’ve given the pre-flight bev service that CO touts on it’s website instead of spending all the ground time screwing around with Bridezilla’s dress.
    6. The FA’s should’ve used their brains and NOT tried to move first class pax carry ons to accomodate Bridezilla’s dress. At least not without ASKING.
    7. The FA who snapped at the two high revenue passengers that spoke up about their belongings being moved should be reprimanded.

  • Lisa S

    Thank you, Chris, for sharing this story. I was very interested to hear about a flight on Virgin as I have never flown them (they don’t fly out of Chicago) but had heard their service is excellent. Obviously, in this case the service was worse than bad, it was deliberately terrible. Virgin should have been grateful to be informed of an instance when their vaunted service was no where to be experienced.

    I don’t think it is a big deal to ask someone who has taken two blankets and pillows if they would mind sharing. I am one of the people who typically grab two blankets because flights can get cold and I need lumbar support, but I do so because usually the blankets are just sitting in the bin. If someone needed one, I would share. I don’t tend to unfold either blanket until the flight is underway (that explanation was for K, lest I be accused of being greedy). Apparently, the flight attendants on that particular flight need additional training in how to ask nicely and effectively.

    Perhaps I interpreted the above story differently than the vast majority of writers (qbubbles, Jaime LaMoreaux, and cjr excepted) because I read a story about two people who were cold, uncomfortable, left hungry in the case of one who was made further uncomfortable because unwanted food was unnecessarily set on a tray taking up room and was not removed in a reasonable time (which by the way, if other people’s food has been picked up is generally over an hour on a transatlantic flight!) and further subjected to rude service by the flight attendants. Now, if it were me, I would have gotten up and brought the tray to the galley–heck, I would have pushed it back to the rude flight attendant in the first place if it had nothing I wanted or could eat. I would have asked for food that I did want to eat. I am assertive enough to peruse the galley and request whatever I see that looks appealing. Generally there are some snacks available (junk food, perhaps, but better than being hungry for 6 hours). However, this story isn’t about me. It is about two people who I believe were quite polite–who else but a polite person would let the food stay in front of them taking up room for over an hour?!

    I think Virgin’s response was appropriate if it had occurred after the first or second letter had been written. Once Chris had gotten involved, I would have thought that Virgin would have written a better letter. This is being nitpicky but, frankly, I wasn’t impressed with the letter. It could be that the British reserve just doesn’t work for me, but I found the letter cold and placating as opposed to truly apologetic. Sometimes all one wants is an apology and the promise that it won’t happen again. Or the offer that next time you fly coach you will get a first class meal. Of course, the 8,000 miles were nice. Perhaps I am not missing much by not having flown Virgin, after all.

  • Jack Bauer

    I bet Tackeff has no idea about the concept of “service”…Payment of a fare ENTITLES a passenger to a measure of service from the airline; they have a right to complain when that measure is not met. Of course, there’s passengers like the OP, and there’s BrideZilla!

  • Mike

    @Raven, airline frequently allow passengers with wedding dresses to place them at the front of the plane. Though I’ve never heard of one having to lay flat, after all, how on earth would you carry or store such a thing. A wedding is a big deal and most people would like to believe that its a once in a lifetime experience. There is no reason that the attendents wouldn’t spend a few minutes helping out on what was going to be the best day of her life. (I’ll save the insults on your character for being cold hearted for some other day)

    @K, individually, their conveniences were not worthy of a complaint, but added up, they provide a bigger picture of how the attendants treated people, and more importantly, that the airline apparently didn’t carry enough of anything for all passengers. The airline should want to know about experiences like this. And as Chris Hill’s aunt and mum said, they only wanted a response and an apology. they weren’t looking for a free flight or miles or anything else but a response.

    It just shouldn’t have taken two or three complaints before someone wrote back. Period.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Raven – It is my recommendation that you write to CO to inform them of your experience and ask for reasonable compensation. Since it is common for the pre-flight drinks not to be served on US Airways flights, I am aware of several elite US Airways Dividend Miles FFs that will record their flights with no pre-flight drinks; after accumulating so many will then write to US asking for compensation and they have been rewarded with a voucher.

    Last year during the holiday season, I use miles to upgrade my wife, son and myself to FC. The meal that they served was inedible. All of the FC passengers complained to the FC FA about the quality of the meal. I wrote to US and they gave us a discount voucher for future travel.

  • Ed

    While I never had that kind of a frosty interaction with a flight attendant, I have been at the wrong end of the pillow/blanket fiasco…On the way back from Hawaii (direct flight to Dallas from Honolulu) we were one of the last to board, even though we were a member of an earlier boarding (something to do with the carry-on delayed us at the gate) So that by the time we got to our seats, there were no pillows or blankets left…mind you, there was a pillow and blanket on each and every seat on the plane…just happens that some selfish idiot walking past our seats took ours…When I asked the flight attendant for another, they couldn’t help us…for a 10 hour flight! First…shame on that person for depriving us of our pillow and blanket…and second, why doesn’t the plane carry extras? I mean, it’s not like they are made out of lead! How much could 2 or three dozen extra pillows and blankets weigh? Not more than a couple of items of crap they sell onboard with that duty free stuff that almost no one buys!And if space is an issue…uh…ever hear of space bags? I use them all the time, you can fit 10 pillows in the space of 1!
    Second on the meal…again, there were no more of the purchased lunch packs on a flight I was on and my wife was hungry (when wives get hungry, they get grouchy…and I wasn’t about to sit next to a grouch wife for the next 8 hours on a cross country flight!)
    I asked the flight attendant and they didn’t have anymore….but they eventually found one…turns out a flight attendant was saving it for herself… I felt a little bad, but hey…I didn’t have to sit next to her for 10 hours…I pick my battles!

  • Steve

    If this were me, the only resolution that would satisfy me is the termination of the flight attendant(s) responsible. Maybe if these people started losing their jobs attitudes and quality of service would change

  • Ah-mei

    Seems as though the whole Virgin brand has gone downhill. Virgin mobile decided to disconnect my number after 6 years without warning or explanation. I’m still trying to get it re-instated almost a year later.

    And yes, it’s the small things in life that make the difference.

  • Bill

    I’m a bit surprised to hear of these difficulties on Virgin since I’ve always heard good things about them – but I’ve never flown on them and I don’t expect I ever will, they do not serve the market I am in.

    As to the Continental flight and “bridezilla”, I agree that weddings carry a certain amount of importance, but like any baggage, it needs to be properly packed by the passenger and their expectations need to be realistic.

    The FA comment about the wedding dress being more important than the passengers’ laptops is certainly something I would take offense at. I would say they are “both” important, but certainly not trivialize the importance of laptops or any passenger possessions really.

  • Chicky

    I don’t think the OPs were asking for anything out of line. As someone else noted, they were just perhaps looking for an apology. This is completely consistent with their story.
    However, let me offer just a bit of pillow advice: travel pillows are not expensive and they are a lifesaver. If they are the U-shaped kind, just sling them around the strap on your tote and there you go. I would not fly any distance without mine. It’s as critical as my mp3 player. LOL.

  • Steve

    @John Tackeff: I suppose you don’t mind being treated rudely by employees of companies you’ve spent your hard-earned money with, then? I would consider these people to be unreasonable if they were asking for a refund of their fare, or complimentary first-class tickets, or something large like that. The woman who wrote to Chris acknowledged that this isn’t a major issue and that she was mostly disappointed that Virgin Atlantic ignored their complaints entirely.

    Frankly, I find rude flight attendants to be, if not a major issue, certainly worthy of complaints. Forcing a passenger to accept a tray of food that they explicitly stated they did not want, and then leaving it there after collecting everyone else’s, is unjustifiable.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    I have flown over 1,000 flights and I have encountered several bad FAs over the years. All of these FAs were on US-based airlines expect for one which wasn’t really an encounter (more about this later) but an announcement over the intercom.

    In regards to FAs on US-based airlines, I think that the problem is related to the ‘work environment.’ It is very common to find FAs with US-based airlines that have been working for 20+ years. They have lost their pensions…their employer has been bankrupted a few times…lost ‘seniority’ due to mergers…no pay raises…less flights to work…etc. Can you say burnout!?!

    I have flown Upper Class on Virgin Atlantic and found the service on my flights to be outstanding. However, we were flying back from LHR to LAX and one of the FAs in Economy made the following announcement: “We can’t leave yet because there are couple of silly passengers that don’t want to move from their seats to accomodate a family that wants to sit together.” It took 45 minutes because it seems like there were a lot of silly passengers that didn’t want to give up their good seats.

    I think that this announcement was very unprofessional. I would have fired that FA on the spot if I was in charge. The flight is 10 hours long and to expect other passengers to give up their good seats for ‘inferior’ seats is asking a lot. I won’t move if I was in these passenger seats. It will be a different story if the flight was only an hour but 10 hours is a different story.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Steve – “If this were me, the only resolution that would satisfy me is the termination of the flight attendant(s) responsible. Maybe if these people started losing their jobs attitudes and quality of service would change”
    - – - – - – - — – - – - – - – -
    They can’t be fired…labor unions.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Lisa S – “I don’t think it is a big deal to ask someone who has taken two blankets and pillows if they would mind sharing.”
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    Based upon comments posted by FAs at other forums, most FAs do not want to ask passengers like giving up an extra blanket, etc. because they fear that the passenger will have a negative image of the airline, a negative image of the FF, a passenger could go off on them, etc.

    For example, I have read comments posted by US Airways FAs that they do not enforce the company policy for a passenger of size (POS) because they don’t want to look bad, heartless, etc. to the passenger that is POS instead they will want for the passenger next to a POS to bring it up and have the Gate Agent (GA) to handle the situation. (The POS policy at US Airways is that FA needs to reseat a passenger {or they are scheduled on another flight if the flight is full} that infringes an inch of the space of the next passenger)

  • Steve

    Labor Unions…the root of all problems.

  • Raven

    @Mike: Not sure how expecting the service I paid for makes me heartless. Also not sure how an FA snapping at two pax who didn’t want their stuff moved to God-knows where without permission makes them heartless, either. I understand that there’s an “unwritten” rule about wedding gowns being put in the coat closet. But, when Bridezilla insisted it lay flat in overhead bins that could accomodate it without inconveincing other pax, that’s the problem.

    Perhaps I’ll pack all my checked luggage in a bridal store bag from now on. That’s a great way to get around the luggage fees!!!

    @Ariz Road Warrrior:
    I also would not give up my seats so a family could sit together, especially if I had a good seat. I had one obnoxious woman take my seat (since UA was allowing “families with small children” to board ahead at the time). When I boarded and said she was in my seat, she shouted that it was now HER seat because she couldn’t be seperated from her child. I told her I’d booked the aisle and I was sitting in the aisle. The FA came over and offered me drink coupons to take the middle this woman had moved from. I said no. FA told me the child should sit with the parent. I said, fine. Then get me an exit row seat because I’m not sitting in the middle. I got some dirty looks (like I care) but I wasn’t giving up my aisle seat!!

  • Jake

    @Arizona Road Warrior

    Regarding the “silly” passengers who wouldn’t give up their seats, I agree with you 100%. I’ve been on several flights where families board only to try and rearrange everyone to their preference. I recall one specifically, a Southwest flight out of Dallas. My wife and I walked up to our gate maybe 15 minutes before boarding, and there was a woman at the desk making some sort of scene about how she “absolutely HAD to be on this flight.” As I walked by I heard the FA tell her she thought they’d be able to get on via standby, but most likely they’d be scattered about the plane (which of course the woman accepted at the time). They ended up getting on, and immediately she starts making a fuss, trying to get everyone to move to accommodate her and delaying takeoff. Finally the original FA came on, told the woman she’d already been advised they’d have to take the seats that were available, and her other option was to deplane and take her original flight. MY HERO!!! Yet another reason I love Southwest – this was the only time I’d ever seen remotely…brash?…behavior from any of their FA’s, and to me it was completely called for.

  • Jake

    I should probably add, these weren’t young kids by any means. Teenagers at least.

  • http://www.cutcat.com Regina

    Running out of meal options is not the issue. The issue is the rudeness of the flight attendants. It’s inexcusable.
    As far as families sitting together, hey, here’s a suggestion: Pick your seats when you book so that you all sit together! Wow, I really had to wrack my brain to come up with that one! As is so often the case, people with children think the whole world revolves around them. If they can’t be bothered to choose their seats ahead of time, tough luck. Don’t expect others to give up their seats for you. Flight attendants should not buy into that nonsense and it’s appalling that they would try to guilt people into it. I totally agree with Raven – I choose an aisle seat for a reason and I’m not giving it up. On very long or overnights I prefer the window, even though it means climbing over people, because it’s easier to sleep with your head leaned against the wall. Middle seats – no way!

  • Gerry

    The letter of “apology” from Virgin Atlantic was unacceptable, but unsurprising, because the snide attitude exhibited by the flight attendants is clearly part of Virgin Atlantic’s corporate culture. Pillows and meals are hit and miss on all airlines these days, and the conduct of one’s fellow passengers is mostly out of the control of the airline. That’s why I fly with snacks, water and a pillow. But it was outrageous for a flight attendant to slam down an unwanted meal and leave it in front of the passenger for an hour or more, as though she were a naughty child who was not allowed to get up until she’d finished her dinner. That abandoned and unwanted meal tray was a reprimand, in keeping with the many other reprimands doled out by the FAs to the OP’s mother and aunt. So how did VA – finally – respond to this outrageous behavior?

    They didn’t. Yes yes, the pillows, the meal choice, these things happen. And the outrageously rude behavior of the flight attendants? Of the all the OP’s complaints, that most demanded an explanation. It didn’t get one. That was very dishonest of Virgin Atlantic, but then, they telegraphed their intention to respond dishonestly in the first sentence of the letter:

    “I was concerned to hear about the way you feel you were treated by our cabin crew on your journey to London. ”

    The way YOU FEEL you were treated? Not the rude and unprofessional way the OP’s relatives actually WERE treated? So this didn’t actually happen. It was all a matter of perception. Virgin Atlantic treated its passengers extremely poorly, ignored letters of complaint, and then spun the problem as an issue of perception concerning such mundane issues as pillow availability and meal choice.

    My perception is that I won’t be flying on, or recommending Virgin Atlantic.

    Gerry

  • Needs a Vacation

    I have flown on Virgin Atlantic, and can say that unless you are first class, the service is pretty average. My worst experience was with Qantas in the mid 90s. I haven’t flown them since, because it was a horror show perpetrated by truly sadistic people.

    First, since they tickets were of the non-refundable type, they would not allow us to reserve seats ahead of time. They told us that we could get seats for the 15 hour flight when we checked in. The proved to not be the case. We had to check in on the east coast with United and the Qantas from LA to Sydney was a code-share, but UA could not give us seats. OK. We would be arriving into LA 5 hours early for the Qantas flight, so we thought we could get seats then, but when we arrived, they were incredibly rude and refused to look at our tickets until 2 hours before the flight. We waited, and then made sure to be first in line, and…you guessed it….there were no seats to be had except middle seats! So my spouse and I could not sit together and we were both stuck in middle seats in different rows for 15 hours. It was horrible. The situation was exactly the same on the return. And that’s just the seats.

    Then came the horror show with the carry ons. I had checked carefully since we carry equipment and even though United Airlines insisted that since we originated with them, and it was a code-share, that the UA carry-on and checked baggage rules would apply (and they gave me a printed statement of that fact), I decided to try to conform to Qantas’ much smaller size anyway. They had a limit of (I think) 29 inches total dimensions and a 5 kilo weight limit, which is a far cry from the 45 inches and 40 pounds or so you can bring on the UA plane. I followed the Qantas rule, stuffing all kinds of things into my coat pockets until we boarded so as to avoid the weight problem. I’m very glad I did, because the obnoxious gate agents literally walked around the gate taking people’s carry-on bags from them. I saw one poor woman who was on our United flight nearly have a heart attack as the Qantas people suddenly put a luggage tag on her carry-on and tried to take it away! She had all kinds of medications in there that could not be checked, and UA had told her that their rules would apply. It was so ugly the way Qantas treated her. She did nothing wrong, and I even proved that to them by showing them the printed copy of the rules that UA gave me stating that the carry-on could be 45 inches if the passenger started the trip with United, but Qantas wouldn’t budge. She was crying at one point as they tried to take her bag full of insulin and other meds, and they threatened her that she wouldn’t be allowed to board unless she gave it to them. It was like watching an assault.

    It gets even nuttier with the checked luggage! There were people who were connecting to domestic Australian flights in Sydney and had checked their luggage through to their final destination. UA allowed them to check 2 bags through, but these poor people were told that now that they were in Australia, they were allowed only one checked bag! So what were they supposed to do with the second bag? They were told they could not take it unless they paid hundreds extra.

    After that trip, I vowed I would never fly Qantas again, and I haven’t. I hope they have improved since then. I can’t imagine it could get worse!

  • Brian C

    Did “Bridezilla” intend on getting married lying down? Or plan on laying herself flat on the ground until she walked down the aisle?

    Wedding dresses are meant to be worn…I find it hard to believe that her dress had to be laid flat.

  • http://www.imageswritten.biz Susan

    @Regina – I did. I picked my seats with CO. I was traveling solo with my kids ages 5 and 7. Due to an equipment change, we were scattered all over the cabin. Not acceptable. Southwest is cattle call and you take your chances. When I booked with CO, I selected seats together. Ergo in my mind, I paid for seats together.

    @ Everyone else – Really? On a 3 hour flight, late in the day, who but me, wants to fly with my kids??? Do you, Mr. “I want the aisle seat” want sit with my tired, hungry and now SCARED 5 year old. Being over 10 rows from mommy is a panic inducing moment for most 5 years old. Do you Mr. “I plan to stretch out and nap with my leg room” really want to sit next to my chatty 5 and 7 year olds, separated from mommy? Both of my kids talk a mile a minute, which I try to mitigate for the sake of those around us, but if I am separated from them, there is little I can really do. Let’s not even talk about kicking the seat. Again if I am next to them, I am there to nip that in bud. 10 rows away, what am I going to do to stop that. Do you have their toys, their lovey, their mp3 player, crayons or books. No I don’t think so.

    Had I not booked ahead and selected seats together – I could see this being my “problem” the reality is – families with small children do not just “want” to sit together – it frankly is the only things that makes sense.

  • http://www.imageswritten.biz Susan

    Did I mention that I called CO twice the day prior, I tried in CMH and IAH repeatedly to get us reseated appropriately, safely and sanely (cuz I gotta tell you a book and nap has a certain appeal, but they are my responsibility and no one elses’.) and then having failed, appealed to the lead FA, who ignore me. So yes, my crying kids clinging to me, did manage to get us back together again. But really? It SO did not have to be like that.

  • Barry

    I can’t believe some of what I’m reading here about people not willing to give up their seats for families. It’s these entitled “frequent travelers” that flying a pain for the rest of us. When you fly, everyone is in a very small, enclosed space. Try to put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

    Now, that being said, the families have a responsibility too. Don’t ask someone to take a worse seat to accommodate you. If you’re spread out throughout the plane, take the row in the back and trade with people to move forward. If I had an aisle seat in the last row, I MIGHT be willing to take a middle seat up front to accommodate you. Don’t ask me to move from the aisle in the front to the middle in the back. If you can get the gate agent to give you a single aisle seat or two, do that, most people are willing to move around if the seat is an aisle for an aisle or window for window. What you don’t want to do is just take all middle seats and try to trade.

    So I guess my point is: frequent travelers, be willing to give up “your seat” for a fairly equivalent one to help someone else have a much more enjoyable flight. Really, what’s the difference? And parents, don’t expect someone to take a middle seat in the last row so you can enjoy a full row at the front of the plane.

  • Dee

    I remember my first flight. I was 4 years old, and separated from my dad on a trans-pacific flight from California to China. My dad patted me on the shoulder and told me to behave, and that was that. Don’t really remember much about the flight, except that I was bored out of my mind/scared of the people sitting next to me. I remember them being really fat, though to be honest thats probably my 4 year old brain overexaggerating things/I probably though that most people were giants compared to myself. Lucky for them, I was well behaved. I wasn’t a big chatterer/didn’t yell and scream or do anything to bother my seatmates, mostly because I was terrified of them. Not so lucky for me was the fact that they were heavy sleepers with big legs. And since I was in the window seat, that made going to the bathroom really difficult, especially since I was too afraid to wake them up. Not the most pleasant way to spend 20 hours.

    I made sure to make my dad promise that on the flight back to california, I got to sit with him. 20 years later, I do find myself getting angry at other kids when they kick my seat or when babies start crying, or slightly irritated when families get priority seating, but I try to remember how I felt when I was a little kid flying on an airplane, and how scared I was, and that helps me let go of the anger. Sometimes its just not worth it. Though it probably helps that I am now just as heavy a sleeper as those people I originally sat next to when I was four!

  • Raven

    About Bridezilla:
    Not sure why she insisted the dress had to lay flat but she did. It was perfectly safe in the coat closet. Still annoyed that those FAs ditched our drink service and spoke rudely to other pax. Hope they will write CO and get an apology at least.

    @Susan:
    I’m not giving up an aisle seat for a middle, period. If your spawn can’t sit still for a three hour flight, don’t fly with him/her. If he/she screams and yells, tosses a fit, or whines because Mommy didn’t have the sense to reserve seats next to each other, expect a stern word from me.

    I don’t fly because I like it, I fly because I have to. I intentionally avoid any itinerary that puts me anywhere remotely near Orlando because the most entitled, stupid, parents tend to fly on those flights with tons of “priceless” goodies from over-priced theme parks.

  • http://www.imageswritten.biz susan

    http://susan-thoughtsfromtheedge.blogspot.com/2010/07/traveling-with-kids.html

    @Raven – actually I was offering the aisle – the seat my son had been given 10 rows behind me. Read my blog. I tried everything – I BOOKED SEATS TOGETHER. I am not an idiot. My husband is a pilot with a competing airline, who did not service our destination. I know how the airline system works. I used to travel for business. Alot. I did my part and I called Continental and I asked every uniform employee I encounter the day of travel to help me correct their error.

    My children are frequent travelers, we have taken countless international flights, but they are then end of day little children. Sometimes they puke, sometimes they cry and sometimes ask “Are we there yet.” 300 times. Bottom line – they paid the same full fare you did. They have just as much a right to sit where they requested and paid to sit.

    What my children have is compassion and humility. Something in short supply. The person(s) at fault here in my story is Continental Airlines and the 7 plus employees who told me getting what I booked and paid for was “Not their problem.” I agree, we should all get to sit where we paid to sit. Continental Airlines, I am afraid does not see it that way.

    I shan’t be flying them again.

    @Dee –

    I am sorry that your father made such an error in judgment. I would not allow my 4 yr old to sit that far away from me on an International flight. Especially not if I booked ahead and requested seats together.

  • Jake

    @Barry

    I doubt that most people would have a problem with your “trade up” scenario (unless, of course it splits them up from the traveling companions they were responsible enough to be seated with). However, from what I usually see the scenario is more as Raven describes it…try to force one into a middle seat for an aisle/window, move everyone to the back so that they may have the front, etc. To me that’s unacceptable. Except in the very rare circumstances where the “equipment change” scenario arises, it is the responsibility of the parent to either book all of the seats together (in Southwest’s case, check in at the 24 hour mark or buy the early boarding upgrade), or else find a different flight. And even in the equipment change situation, the best bet is probably the back to front offer.

  • cjr

    “It’s these entitled “frequent travelers” that flying a pain for the rest of us.”

    Wow, somebody else has the nerve to throw the “entitled” word around? Really?

    I am by no means a frequent traveler; I fly a couple of times a year. But if I book a seat, I expect to receive that seat, regardless of you or your family’s seating problems.

    I just flew home from London a couple of weeks ago on two legs of flights. On the second leg, a family tried to sit together, even though they didn’t have the seats. When the correct passenger went to their seat and it was taken, the family member glared at the other passenger and the flight attendant over it. Guess who felt like the “entitled” one?

    “frequent travelers, be willing to give up “your seat””

    Or, families, be willing to book far enough in advance to guarantee that you can select your seats to sit together on a flight. And if you didn’t, don’t expect sympathy from the rest of us from your inadequacies in planning your trip.

  • BucksterSF

    We really do need better things to complain about. Didn’t like the food on a flight? Really. No nasty shared blankee? Wow. And you should have told bridezilla if she failed to behave you would “accidentally” spill a glass of red wine on the dress. End of Story.

  • http://www.imageswritten.biz susan

    @cjr and @Raven – all of you… WHAT I am trying to say is MOST PARENTS book seats together. ( I can show you easily 10 via my twitter rant) I always do. I plan ahead, I have even not taken flights at better times, becasue I cannot get seats together. Responsible and reasonable parents do plan ahead. When I booked the tix with CO, there was no charge to pick my seats, unless I wanted more leg room. Why would I take extra leg room seats when my two traveling companions’ feet don’t reach the floor. I picked three seats, middle of the plane together.

    My point is – the airlines do not take this into account. Thru this mess with Continental – I have learned that it is their “informal policy” to allow priority elite and other frequent full fare business flyers to “bump” people from their preassigned seats. For a fee or not.

    I did everything right. I planned ahead, I picked my seats online, I did not take a flight that did not offer me seats together, I checked in 24 hours prior, discovered CO’s error, contacted CO and was told it was not their problem. Had the CO website offered me the choice to lock those seats in stone with a fee, I would have, I understand that is in the works, when I booked travel, that was not the case. IN SHORT I DID EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING PARENTS SHOULD DO. READ: EVERYTHING YOU DO.

    I paid for the same services, rights and privileges you did. Why must I, then settle for less than what I pay for, while you enjoy exactly what you paid for. I paid the full fare for my kiddos, a fair I felt was reasonable, given the stipulation that I would be sitting in the seats I selected, seats that had me with my kids.

    There needs to be a system in place to keep parents and kids under the age of 15 together. At 15, I flew to Europe solo. I can see that being ok. But a 5 year old. No way.

    Or let’s allocate the last 5 rows on each plane to families with kids. No one wants to sit back there anyway. No priority elite passenger is going to bump me from the last row.

  • Raven

    @Susan:
    CO should have done better by you, yes. Had you offered me an aisle for an aisle, I would have gladly switched. However, in your first comment, you made it sound like anyone should jump to your whim because you have kids. I would not trade an aisle for a middle. I hope you realize WHY. Middle seats are the most undesirable on the aircraft and some airlines even charge MORE for the aisle and window. The story I related was with a completely RUDE and idiot mother who seemed to think that she was entitled to my seat because the airline did not sit her and her child together and she did not speak up at the gate. (At least, I did not see her up there from the time she arrived at the gate until the time we boarded)

    And don’t even get me started on the idiot “mother” who tried to change her baby’s diaper on MY traytable–not hers, but MINE. I had to stop that right fast and in a hurry despite the nasty looks from that “mother.”

    Now, I will tell you I am not heartless and have actually given up a premium (first class) seat for traveling members of the military. I have also given up my aisle for a middle for a parent traveling with an autistic child that Delta couldn’t seem to manage to seat together. But, I do not feel I should have to bend to the whim of every parent on every flight. There comes some responsiblity on the parent’s part and few seem to exercise it. While your case it obviously CO’s fault, there are far too many that are the fault of the parent.

    Also, my own children have sat away from me on aircrafts, even as young as six. I packed them a carry on with their coloring books, checked on them, and we “practiced” how to behave on an airplane at home. I received compliments from those seated around my kids at how quiet and polite they were. Perhaps if more parents played “we’re on the airplane” at home, there would be less seat-kicking, crying, and fussing!

  • Steve

    @BucksterSF: You missed the point. The complaint wasn’t about not liking the food on a flight; it was about being treated rudely by the flight attendant and forced to accept a meal that you flat-out said you did not want. It’s entirely about the attitude of the FA here.

    @susan: “The person(s) at fault here in my story is Continental Airlines and the 7 plus employees who told me getting what I booked and paid for was “Not their problem.” I agree, we should all get to sit where we paid to sit. Continental Airlines, I am afraid does not see it that way.” I appreciate that you understand the situation (that if you want specific seating arrangements, you have the responsibility to plan ahead to secure those seats) and that it’s the airline’s fault for not being able to accommodate you, not the other passengers’ fault. Personally, I think if for whatever reason (such as an equipment change) seating assignments cannot be kept as reserved, the airline should have to offer compensation to those who volunteer to move. (I’m not talking compensation on the level of what happens when a flight is overbooked, of course, but *something*). It would most likely expedite the process when something like this happens.

    What I dislike is the attitude that certain parents have that by virtue of the fact that they’re traveling with children, they automatically take precedence over everyone else. (cjr’s example of a family who acted as if the seating assignments didn’t mean anything is exactly what I’m talking about). Personally, I strongly prefer window seats when I fly, but I don’t care much if I’m at the front or the back of the plane; if it’ll help someone else out for me to switch from row 4 to row 24, and I can keep my window seat, it’s not a problem. But I don’t feel *obligated* to change my seat.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Regina – “As far as families sitting together, hey, here’s a suggestion: Pick your seats when you book so that you all sit together!”
    - – - – - – - — – - – - – - – -
    I agreed…when my wife and son are traveling with me, I only book flights where our seats are together. If we can’t get three seats together in coach or two seats together in FC\BC, I won’t book the flight unless I can get good seats to change with other passengers. I don’t want to impose on the other passengers on the flight to change from good seats to ‘bad’ seats.

    Back in May, I made a last minute reservation (the day before our departure). I grab a window seat for my son, an aisle seat for my wife and an aisle seat in the exit row for me. The travelers in the middle seat and window seat of the row where my son was sitting had no troubles taking my wife’s aisle seat and my exit row seat. If you ask someone to move to a better seat than it is not a problem.

    My first recommendation to traveling families is only to book flights where you are able to get the desired seats. If this means taking a different flight or different airline so be it. I think that it is a burden for parents with a conscience to ask other passengers to give up their aisle or window seat for a middle seat. It isn’t fair for the other passengers to give up a ‘choice’ seat like an aisle or window for a middle seat especially for a long haul flight (3 or more hours).

    My second recommendation is to call airline within a few days of your flight to change your seats.

    If you are unable to change seats by phone, my third recommendation is to get to the airport as early (2 to 3 hours) as possible since a portion of the seats are typically controlled by ticket counter at the airport.

    If you are still unable to change seats at the ticket counter upon check-in, my fourth recommendation is to buy drinks, a meal, a snack box or etc. for the passengers that you asked to change seats especially if you are asking them to move from an aisle or window seat to a middle seat.

  • Eric

    @Susan

    Wow….just….wow….

    I chose my seat and that’s the one I’m sitting in. Because YOU got screwed by the airline isn’t my issue. I’m not giving up my window seat for a middle seat or an isle seat, or my seat in isle 7 to go sit in isle 30.

    YOU have the issue with the airline, not me. I paid for something, I’m getting it. You paid for something and aren’t getting it. It sucks to be you, but it has nothing to do with me.

    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked to move over here so someone can sit together or so a kid can look out the window…whatever. The answer is always the same; NO.

    I have choices. If a change happens and I don’t like it I can either take the flight and deal with it later, I can refuse to get on the plane, or I can have them put me on another flight where I do get the seat I paid for.

    What gives you the right to inconvenience someone else and mess up their flight because you got screwed?

  • cjr

    Susan, I’m not pointing at you in particular here, because you have obviously made the effort to not have this kind of situation occur in the first place. Yet, due to an airline’s stupidity, it happened anyways. Unfortunately, for every person like you, there are more that are not like you.

    I should add: on that flight with the troublesome family, these were people traveling with teenagers, not small children. Also, there were *a lot* of people trying to move around on this flight on United, and that caused more delay in the flight taking off than, oh, trying to store carry on luggage in the overhead bins.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ susan – “WHAT I am trying to say is MOST PARENTS book seats together.”
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    As a FF (over 100 flights a year), it is common to have at least one family on my flights where they didn’t book their seats together and they expected everyone to move for their benefits.

    @ susan – ” Responsible and reasonable parents do plan ahead..”
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    I agreed. Based upon my experiences, many parents have room for improvement.

    @ susan – “When I booked the tix with CO, there was no charge to pick my seats, unless I wanted more leg room.”
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    The only seats on CO with extra leg room are the seats in the exit rows which your children won’t be allowed these seats because they are under the age of 15. I just made a reservation at CO and it didn’t offer me the exit rows because my 4-YO son was on the PNR. I can’t see how you were offer the exit row seating if you entered “2″ in the the number of children between the age of 5 to 11.

    @ susan – “I have learned that it is their “informal policy” to allow priority elite and other frequent full fare business flyers to “bump” people from their preassigned seats.”
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    I was an elite FF with CO for five years (until America West acquired US Airways) since they were the best flight to a regional office that I had to visit once a month. It was my understanding that if you are a non-elite FF sitting in a preferred seat then you could be bump; however, a non-elite FF couldn’t choose a seat in the preferred seat area online only by phone. This is the same policy at US Airways. When my wife and son travel with me when I am on a business trip, they are on a separate PNR; therefore, I will tell the US CSR to put reference in their reservation to my reservation so that they won’t be moved.

    @ susan – “Bottom line – they paid the same full fare you did. They have just as much a right to sit where they requested and paid to sit.”
    - – - – - – - – — – - – - – -
    If you read the fine print, your assigned seat isn’t guaranteed. I have been told this two or three times over the years when my seat was changed and I am a FF with top elite status. For example, I was sitting in FC and my FC seat was changed because a government employee on government business has their choice of seats in FC on US Airways.

    @ susan – “There needs to be a system in place to keep parents and kids under the age of 15 together.”
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - –
    It is called Southwest Airlines…get in the first boarding and you will have seats together. Of course, Southwest Airlines doesn’t fly everywhere since they don’t fly to the markets with medium and small airports.

  • Diana

    I have to agree with Arizona on this one. If you are traveling with children, you shouldn’t book a flight with a carrier that does not allow pre-assigned seats. Second, if you need to book at the last minute, get the the airport early and talk to the ticket agent. I had this experience when I was traveling with my Aunt. We made an emergency trip to FL to help my grandmother with my sick grandfather. When we book online with JetBlue the day before, we couldn’t pick our seats. Upon arriving at the airport the next day and checking in at the kisok, we found that I was in the front of the plan and my Aunt was in the back. When we checked our luggage, we asked the ticket agent if there were 2 seats together, as my Aunt does not like flying in the least. The majority of the flight was full, but JetBlue blocks out the few rows for certain passengers, such as the disabled and elderly. The ticket agent had the ability to seat people in those rows if they needed to. The ticket agent cheerfully changed our seats and my Aunt and I we able to sit next to each other.

    I don’t think that the problem is families that inadvertently get separated on a flight. I have found them to be polite in asking to change seats. It’s the parents that feel they are entitled to bump someone out of their seat because they just happen to be flying with children.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Barry – “So I guess my point is: frequent travelers, be willing to give up “your seat” for a fairly equivalent one to help someone else have a much more enjoyable flight.”
    - – - – - – - – — – - — – -

    I don’t mind changing seats as long as the new seat is the same or better. I have changed seats several times. I have been upgraded to FC but I elected to sit in coach with my family and told the FA to give it to a member of the military and the FAs rewarded me with free soft or alcoholic drinks (US Airways used to charge for soft drinks on their flights) throughout the flight.

    It has been my experiences that when a person asks you to switch seats…it is always for an ‘inferior’ seat. I don’t like to sit in row 1 in FC because of the bulkhead. I can’t stretch my legs; therefore, I will try to seat in row 2 or row 3…usually the aisle seat. Someone in row 1 with a window seat that wants to sit with a business associate, a spouse, etc. who is sitting next to me and they always wants to move from row 1 window to row 2\3 aisle which I will respond with a ‘No’. I always countered with I will move to the window seat where your spouse, business associate, etc. is sitting so that the passenger that is sitting in the aisle seat in row 1 can have my aisle seat so that you and your spouse\business associate\etc. can sit together in row 1. I have made this offer at least 20 times and no one has taken me up on it. It wasn’t about sitting together…it was strictly about getting a better seat.

    If you want to change seats, sit in your seat until the person shows up. If you are already seating in my seat, the answer is an automatic ‘No’. Offer to buy drinks, a meal, a snack box or etc. for the person that you are asking to change seats when you are asking them to move from an aisle or window seat to a middle seat.

  • Wrona

    Politeness was the issue for the Hill’s. I suspect that if the flight attendants had been polite and apologetic, even if they couldn’t get them a pillow or blanket or find a meal the Hills’ liked, then the Hills’ wouldn’t have been quite so unhappy.

    As to seat change requests, for me it’s all how it’s handled. If you ask me politely, i.e don’t demand that I switch with you, and have a good reason for the request, most of the time I’m going to switch, usually even if it’s to a middle seat. It’s when someone just expects me to move (because they have kids, because they want to sit with their friend, because they want to look out the window, etc) that I get upset and am most likely going to turn down the request.

  • MeanMeosh

    @ Arizona – “Offer to buy drinks, a meal, a snack box or etc. for the person that you are asking to change seats when you are asking them to move from an aisle or window seat to a middle seat.”

    Or just ask nicely. If you’re polite, I’ll switch seats with you, no bribe needed, if I’m traveling alone (admittedly, it’s harder when my wife and I are traveling together). If you’re rude, or just decide to help yourself to my seat and act indignant when I ask you to move, I’m not going to switch with you, and you can take it up with the FA.

    @ Susan – I’m sorry you had such a bad experience. CO definitely dropped the ball for you. However, I think the majority of posters here aren’t singling you out. You did things the right way, and unfortunately, you had some bad luck with the equipment change. The point of these stories are, a lot of folks unfortunately take it as a “right” to kick someone else out of their seat, for one reason or another – whether it be because they’re an elite and they feel entitled to it, or parents with kids who just sit in someone’s seats without asking, etc. Sadly enough, it’s these bad apples that cause people to deny even legitimate requests, like yours.

  • Carver

    I think alot of people of reading way to much into Susan’s story. From what I gathered, she was politely asking people to trade because Continental screwed up and she wanted to sit with her kids, a perfectly reasonable desire, particularly as she original booked seats together.

    As Arizona stated, seat assignments are not guaranteed, so no one actually has a right to their seat. So Eric’s rant is basically meaningly.

    I’ve encountered the same issue with many people. I always book aisle seats and I hate the bulkhead. I generally get annoyed when people just take my seat and want me to trade for their crappy window or bulkhead seat. I generally say no, just because I think changing is very presumptuous. You should wait until the doors close before playing musical chairs.

  • Shari

    I can’t believe how many people here wouldn’t move to help a family. How selfish has our society become? Sometimes, families don’t always have the chance to book together (@ Regina). It’s not always the family’s fault that they got scattered. I remember when I was a child, sometimes we were forced to book seats close but not together. Back in those day (and truly, I’m not old here!) people would often volunteer when they saw us separated. If we asked, we asked nicely, and usually people were more than happy to help. It seems thought that these days, the attitude is blame the person you don’t know for a mistake they may not have made while saying the heck with you, hooray for me. Sad.

    As for the “Bridezilla” story, I’m sorry, but it doesn’t sound as bad as made out to be. I would never, ever check my dress in. Never. Raven, I can’t believe you would, either. I would have asked if it could be hung, which I think is quite fair. If the space was empty, I would have tried to have laid it flat, too. It’s not crazy to want your dress to arrive in the best condition possible. Yes, it’s going to get worn. But that doesn’t mean I want it a rumpled mess before I put it on. The manner in which things happened wasn’t right, but the attitude of “how dare she” is over the top.

    With respect to the story here, I think that the women had cause to complain. They didn’t ask for compensation, they weren’t out to gain anything. They wanted an acknowledgment of the poor service and an apology. It should never have taken as long as it did for them to receive a reply. If poor service is acceptable, something to not complain about, what else shall we shrug off and not worry about in the service and hospitality industries?

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