Lynne Lenhart’s daughter had her $140 iPod taken from her on a recent visit to New York. The thief was a taxi driver who remains at large, with the apparent blessing of the government and the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission.
This sad — and apparently unsolvable — case raises some important questions about the use of credit cards. I’ll get to those in a moment. But first, let me hand the mic over to Lenhart.
My 20 year-old-daughter recently visited New York City by herself, and had a bad taxi experience that I am still furious about.
After the driver took her to JFK airport to catch her flight home, she tried to pay using her credit card. She had been using her credit card to pay for all her taxi cab rides.
This time the card was not approved. She knew that she had enough money on the card to pay for the ride, so she called up the bank to find out what was wrong. They agreed that she had enough to pay for it but the driver’s machine used for the credit cards was not working. All the numbers were not going over either due to an equipment malfunction or a bad signal near the airport.
The driver got mad and called the Port Authority. When they got involved, they told her that if she couldn’t pay, then they would have to “book” her.
She was humiliated and scared that she was going to be arrested. They told her that she would have to give him something and she was forced to give the driver her $140 iPod to pay for a $50 cab ride. It feels, to me, like she was the victim of a shakedown. She got the taxi driver’s number.
I have shared this experience with friends and family and they are all disgusted and not planning on vacationing in New York any time soon. Is there anyone that I can contact about this situation or is this the way things are done in New York?
I recommended that Lenhart write a brief, polite letter to the Port Authority and the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission, requesting the return of her daughter’s iPod. Here’s what happened:
I heard from the Port Authority by phone and e-mail. They apologized and asked for more information. I sent them what my daughter remembered. Since my daughter did not get the names of the officers, they are unable to pursue it further and consider the case closed.
I heard from the Taxi Commission. They brought the driver in to interview and after discussing the case with the driver and their legal department, it was decided that I would have to deal with the driver on my own. They said that since he was forced to accept the iPod as payment, by the Port Authority, they were under no obligation to force him to return it. They gave me his phone number. However, after repeated attempts, I have been unable to contact him.
I called the Taxi Commission a few days ago, to see if they could help me and have received no response. Then I contacted the Port Authority and found out what they had decided. All they could do was give me the name of the taxi cab company.
Is Lenhart out of options? I think small claims court might be her daughter’s next stop, although it might not be worth the effort.
The bigger question here is: What happens when a travel company can’t accept your credit card because of equipment problems? The cab driver in Lenhart’s case should have been able to accept an imprint and a signature. Confiscating her iPod was unnecessary.
The taxi driver should free the iPod and accept her $50 as soon as possible.
Update (Jan. 21, 2009): The NY Post has published a story about this incident.
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it only seems fair if you look at it from the stand point of the cab driver whom expected payment for services rendered. He/she has no idea on the amount of available credit on your daughter’s cards nor is he in the pawn shop business. needless to say, the way you raise your daughter to depend so heavily on credit is what is really bringing down america and our economy.
Your daughter’s convenience would have been someone else’s inconvenience. Commerce was invented long before you or your daughter came about and all’s fair if there is a cab ride bill left unpaid.
You probably dont appreciate the fact that the cab driver didnt press charges and let your daughter get booked by the port authority police. Ingrateful americans we have become… to only see through our own eyes and not the big picture…
@Katie –
It is often stealing when someone willingly gives you something. If cop comes to you and says “I will put drugs on you and arrest you for possession unless you give me $100,” and you comply, the cop stole from you. If you go to a bank and pretend to be someone else and take money from their account, and the misled teller willingly gives it to you, it is stealing.
Here, the iPod was stolen because the cabbie (1) either lied about being able (or unable) to accept credit cards to induce her to get in the cab without cash, (2) used his lie to put her in an uncomfortable situation, where he was able to unjustly threaten her with jail in a strange (and apparently corrupt) city, and (3) then demanded something from her worth far more than what he could reasonably ask for.
further more, there is no crime if the young lady willingly departed with the ipod. The real crime is the young lady going around trying to get pity over not being able to use a credit card. Social responsibility, i think not, more like social ignorance.
Its obvious the cab driver wanted to get paid and had to take a stupid ipod. to be honest, $150 for an ipod, it must have been 1 gig nano or discontinued mini. It is obvious the age and model of the ipod was omitted. Ask me or anyone else if a used IPOD of undetermined value is good for services rendered.
@Yuri – you pretend to know what happened, even though you weren’t there. Get over yourself and stop trying to defend this theft.
Ok, my opinion may be unpopular, but the first thing I thought when I read this was “what a crybaby”.
Seriously? Counting on your credit card for everything? Not carrying any cash? And with all the hoopla, withe Port Authority there and everything, couldn’t she just go and make a cash withdrawal from an ATM with her card?
The world does NOT revolve around you just because you have a credit card. Don’t feel so entitled. The cab driver gave a service and had to receive a payment. I guess she had to learn the hard way – and if everyone could stop making such a fuss about it she could at least learn from her experience and wouldn’t make the same mistake twice.
LETS MAKE IT CLEAR! NEVER USE YELLOW CABS….AWFUL PPL…AWFUL SERVICE… THEY ALMOST KILLED ME THE OTHER DAY…. USE THE SUBWAY:WHAT CAN BE BETTER THEN THE GOOD OL TRAIN TO SEE “THE CITY” AND ITS PEOPLE FROM A MORE “INSIDE” PERSPECTIVE!
@Elisa
Respectfully, that makes no sense and is a red herring at best. Why is she so entitled? Because she wants to use a credit card instead of carrying around cash? If you read the article closely you will see that its the cab driver’s machine that not’s working.
So in reality, its the cab driver that wants everything to revolve around him because of his failure to ensure that his machine is working.
She was wrong.
She should have called the police while in the car. They would have forced the cab driver to call up the dispatch and read the credit card #’s to them so they could make the charge on their end.
The cabby was just taking advantage. If the credit card reader wasn’t working the cab driver is supposed to notify the passenger before they get into the car.
When you have a conflict like this, call the police. End of story. Call yourself, don’t let the merchant “call for you”.
This is also a popular scam for mechanics as well. When it’s mostly labor and minimal parts they will say your CC isn’t going through hoping you will be in a similar situation.
Yes she was the victim of a scam. Sad.
While I think it’s a bummer that she lost her ipod, who travels without cash?? Credit cards don’t always work, computers go down, etc.. Ok, so she is 20 and maybe she didn’t know any better, but her parents should have known better and not sent her on her way without cash.
And Carver? Carry an extra $100 on your for emergencies like this. You don’t have to carry all of your money in cash. Just make sure to have *some*.
Consider it a lesson learned.
WTF? It’s $2 on the subway to Jamaica and $5 for the air train to JFK… and VERY easy to find your way there and pay with credit card… but the question is, who visits anywhere including NYC without a reserve of cash and/or travel checks in case credit card machines don’t work (*always* a valid problem anywhere in the world)? I can see this happening anywhere, not just New York for someone contracting a service and being unable to pay. I was expected to pay a fine in Austria when a language barrier created a problem over renting a bicycle, and I paid without incident because it was *my* fault.
I love how it’s back in vogue to hate New York again. Newsflash, if you’re an idiot, we don’t like you either. Dish washing anyone for their meal?
@ Joe Farrell
Here are the facts: (1) A credit card is a perfectly valid, legal, reliable form of payment used the world over, (2) this cab advertised that it took credit cards and had equipment to take credit cards, (3) the cabbie is legally required to accept credit cards if he is advertising that ability, and if his machine is malfunctioning, he is required to inform passengers BEFORE picking them up, (4) if his machine is out of the service range, he is bring the cab to an area with service, (5) the cabbie failed to honor is credit card policy, (6) the cabbie broke the TLC regulations and failed to warn the passenger before she got in, (7) the cabbie broke the regulation requiring him to move to an area where the credit card machine had service, (8) the cabbie refused to let the customer go to an ATM, (9) after doing all of this, the cabbie extorted a $140 iPod off of a hapless, stressed tourist who needed to make a flight.
On these facts, the cabbie was clearly in the wrong here. It’s not even a gray area–there are clear legal rules and he broke them. End of story.
@Elisa, The cab driver advertised that he took credit cards, and then didn’t. Then he refused to let her go to an ATM. He said he would take her iPod or send her to jail. What did the poor girl do wrong to deserve that treatment? All you’re saying is that she should expect everyone around her to be liars or evildoers? That’s not a healthy way to live.
@acty,
So if a mugger pulls a knife on you, and you willingly hand over your iPod, it’s not stolen? You clearly don’t know the law. If you get someone to hand over property through threats, coercion, trickery, or lies, it is stealing.
Here, we are told that he lied about being able to take credit cards. Then he threatened to have her thrown in jail because of his mistake. I would not be surprised if he physically intimidated this young girl. And then he demanded her iPod. If that’s what happened, then it sounds like stealing to me.
Also, you seem to misunderstand the situation. There is nothing wrong with using electronic forms of payment. They are generally safer against theft, faster at most checkouts, cheaper for the consumer because of no ATM fees, and a lot more convenient (no going to the bank every couple days). Most people who pay with plastic are debiting from their checking account or paying their bill in full every month, so it is ridiculous for you to suggest that it is financially impossible. Here, the cabby was advertising that he accepted credit cards. She had a valid, functioning credit card which he claimed to (and is required to) accept. The bank confirmed this. He either (1) lied about his equipment and/or (2) failed to properly maintain his equipment. Neither of those things are his fault. And, having put himself in a situation where he couldn’t accept payment, he should have allowed her to go get cash if that is what he preferred.
@Sam Mech –
You think that using credit cards in an “age of identity theft” is stupid and would prefer using cash in seedy areas?
That’s silly, and you shouldn’t give advice like that if you don’t know about the issue. Using a credit card is the safest form of payment. You are not responsible for any unauthorized charges or identity theft. Your bank has fraud detection experts tracking card usage. If there is a dispute with the merchant, your bank will negotiate on your behalf and get your money back. It leaves a paper trail if you need to find the merchant later.
With cash, you can easily get mugged or lose it and you have no recourse. If you’re overcharged or given back the wrong amount of change, you’re SOL unless you are able to demand it back from the cabbie.
Chris- you are totally clueless. You live in your little world of absolute rules and pretend that Mr. Clinton did not have sex with that woman . . ..
so WHAT if the cabbie’s machine ‘misoperated,’ to use a Bushism? So what – sure – there are a MILLION TLC rules for the hack to follow. He did not follow them here.
I have not heard the FINAL fact which would allow me to put blame on the cabbie. . . .
That fact is where little Ms. Perfect Snowflake Tourist came BACK out of the terminal with $50 in cash and a $20 tip for the cabbie to get her iPod. Where is that little factoid? Ms. Tourist gave the guy her iPod, she did not say “Hey, Mr. Cabbie, let me get you some cash, will you wait here for 5 minutes please?”
That DID NOT HAPPEN. Did he Ms. aunt? You are required to have a modicum of common sense and intelligence to travel the world. . ..
Joe Farrell,
You’re off base. From what I’ve read here and elsewhere, she DID offer to go get cash. The cabbie and PA officers refused. She offered to even be escorted by the cops, but still the cabbie refused. The cabbie didn’t want her to get cash. As I understand it, he didn’t wait around. He just got her iPod and drove off.
I don’t live in a world of absolute rules. The cabbie advertised that he took credit cards. If he wasn’t able to take them, wouldn’t it have been reasonable for him to warn the passenger BEFORE driving her on a $50 fare? This is especially so since the cabbie is required to take credit cards and you’re required to warn passengers when your machine is out of order. These arent’ obscure technical rules that don’t really matter. They are clear, important rules that really make a difference for almost every customer. If the cabbie had followed one simple legal rule or at least followed common sense, the passenger would have been able to grab another cab and this whole mess would be avoided. There’s no need to be hypertechnical where the reasonable rule and common sense come out the same way.
The story suggests that the cab might just have been out of the reception area on his credit card machine. If that’s the case, there’s a common sense solution which is also the legally required one. He should have gone around the block to a place where there was reception. Nothing hypertechnical or unreasonable about that.
And, as I understand it, she offered to go get cash. The cabbie refused. Common human decency would suggest that, if the cabbie breaks the rules and falsely advertises his payment types, he should at least be reasonable enough to let a passenger go to the ATM to cover for the cabbie’s errors. She couldn’t though, because he drove off.
And why should the passenger give a $20 tip to a cabbie who lied to her, broke the rules, operated a cab with defective equipment, coerced her, harassed her, intimidated her, and threatened her? Why do his mistakes and crimes justify a bigger tip?
I’m a New Yorker, so I know to carry around a lot of cash. But the thing is, in most parts of the world cash is dead. Very few reasonable people outside of NYC still use cash. So tourists would reasonably expect that the greatest city in the world would be able to take credit cards just as well as Bumblef**k, Missoruh. And they might not want to carry wads of cash around in a strange and unknown city with a reputation for rough streets.
Why should she have to assume that the cabbie was falsely advertising his payment methods? Only in NYC do credit card machines get “broken.”
The important fact omitted was that the driver was a covert operative for the RIAA and was clawing their illegally downloaded music back from college students.
Aunt Paula, cut the anti-nyc crap. Nobody is going to want to help you if you are going to be racist/stereotype/etc. Plus, only anti-russian propaganda is allowed on this forum, since that lawless country is where you really will get blackmailed by “traffic cops”.
On a more positive note, Can anyone of authority here contribute to what people should do in a situation like this?
A) Ask to be driven to the nearest ATM?
B) Call 311 while sitting in the cab and ask for their assistance?
C) Ask an innocent bystander to lend you the money?
D) Work a deal out with the cab driver?
E) Call the police and do what they say?
This obviously is not the first time this has happened.
What is the law if you have no access to cash and the accepted method of payment does not work (ie cab credit card reader broken)? Is telling the driver to GFY an acceptable form of payment in this circumstance?
Chris – [quote] As I understand it, he didn’t wait around. He just got her iPod and drove off. [/quote]
From where did you get that fact? It is NOWHERE in the facts provided by Chris Elliott in the original post, nor in ANY of the replies from her ‘Aunt.’
That fact is made up and is the basis upon which you make the rest of your argument. It is entirely specious.
Was a reasonable course of conduct that he wait for cash – yeah. Should the cops. given ‘common human decency’ let her get cash? Yep. But the world unfortunately, especially in NYC, fails to revolve around common human decency.
However, given your post, it does revolve around people making up facts to support their arguments. Chris, I am ONLY willing to reach a conclusion based on the facts presented to me. And NOWHERE does ANYONE EVER SAY that the cabbie just ‘drove off.’
I was born and raised in NYC. Sounds like what we have here is a failure to communicate. . .
Give the internet all of the information. Phone numbers, names, etc. Things will happen. They will be begging to give the ipod back.
While reading all of the comments on this article, I was trying to figure out why people were so passionate about this case and I decided to re-read the original letter to Mr. Elliott. There seem to be two issues intertwined here. First, the cabbie clearly did not follow the rules set forth by the TLC regarding credit card payments, which can be found on the TLC website. While she should have been given the opportunity to use another credit card or pay with cash, this situation was mishandled by the cabbie and PA cops and was rightly investigated by the TLC. That they decided that the matter now lay between the cabbie and Miss Lenhart is disappointing, but the cabbie was under no obligation to let Miss Lenhart leave the cab when her credit card did not work in his machine (the cc company stated that there did seem to be a problem with his machine, which means that he wasn’t lying to try and get out of accepting payment) without some form of remuneration.
However, the issue that seems to be fueling most people’s responses is how her family is presenting this situation to the media and the public. Words like “humiliated” and “petrified” were used to describe Miss Lenhart’s reactions and “disgusted” and “absolutely outraged” were used by her family. These are very strong words that indicate extreme reactions to an unfortunate situation. Though her family stated that she experienced no problems on the trip save this one, they have very publicly disparaged and sworn off an entire city and are trying to convince others to do the same! Of course this is going to bring out some very strong emotions in people who love New York and want to encourage tourism to the city.
If Miss Lenhart decides to take the issue to small claims court, then hopefully she will be able to pay the cabbie his $50 and get her iPod back (unless Chris left some major part of Ms. Lenhart’s story out, I do not see that she offered to send the cabbie his $50 now, only that she was demanding her daughter’s iPod be returned). However, the bigger lesson here for any traveller is that one needs to always be prepared for something to go wrong and have a back-up plan in place (trying more than one credit card may have made the difference in this case). There is definitely a difference in the way that people on the West Coast and people on the East Coast communicate (I have lived on both) and maybe some people are just not cut out for visits to the Big Apple (this is not directed at Miss Lenhart, but at her overreacting family).
In response to ‘Bubby D’s’ comment about ME being “Racist/Stereotypical/Etc”…. I personally take great offense to that unbiased, stupid statement.. NOWHERE, in my posts, were there ANY references to race, or stereotypes… Are you just pulling words out of your a**, or, are YOU the racist? Next time, THINK, before you post your hate filled comments…. Your name says it all……
Wow. Thanks Lynne Lenhart for wasting five minutes of my life. Let your daughter grow up and deal with her own problems. Furthermore, get over it. Assuming her iPod was actually worth $140 then you are out $90. Is this really worth this much drama? Going to small claims is hardly worth the trouble and you’ll spend far more then $90 before you step foot in court.
One thing I have not seen mentioned among all these comments: think about how you might react to a new situation such as this. Reading about it in print, having a chance to think it over, and then writing about it is one thing. But what if you were 20 years old, had never been to New York, and suddenly some cabbie was demanding $50 in cash that you didn’t have and threatening to send you to jail if you didn’t come up with something right away? If you haven’t had a chance to think through this what-if scenario in advance (and who would?), chances are high you might react similarly. Anything to keep yourself out of jail and just catch your flight home, right?
It’s entirely possible this story has been somewhat embellished for Mom and Dad’s sake. These things always seem to take on a life of their own by the time you’ve told it a few times, or even relived it in your head during the trip home. But what I don’t doubt is the main facts: the credit card didn’t work, the cabbie now has her iPod and refuses to return it, and the Port Authority and Taxi Commission are refusing to get involved or say “nay” at the cabbie. It does sound like she could be more prepared for the next trip (and I daresay she will be), but the cabbie is wrong not to return the iPod (in exchange, of course, for his cab fare). And if it were true he could use the cab fare more than the iPod, I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t simply do this. Likewise, the Taxi Commission is wrong not to sanction the driver somehow for his behavior (assuming they have not).
I had a similar situation in Phoenix. The cab had a sign on the window that if the driver refused a valid credit card, the ride was free. It was a $70 cab ride, and I wanted to pay with my corporate card to avoid reimbursement of cash. The driver turned off the car, and turned off the meter, and demanded payment in cash, as he claimed he could not process the transaction without the meter on. He was then waiving my card in the air, asking the hotel staff if an ATM was located inside (and ATM wouldn’t have worked– cash withdrawals are prohibited on the card). I do travel with an reasonable sum of cash. I paid the fare, with no tip because of his behavior. While cash is a quick way to do business (and to avoid reporting your income to the IRS), carrying it around in larger quantities than you cab ride home is inconvenient and risky.
While I think it’s a bummer that she lost her ipod, who travels without cash?? Credit cards don’t always work, computers go down, etc.. Ok, so she is 20 and maybe she didn’t know any better, but her parents should have known better and not sent her on her way without cash.
And Carver? Carry an extra $100 on your for emergencies like this. You don’t have to carry all of your money in cash. Just make sure to have *some*.
Consider it a lesson learned..
The Credit card company lied to your daughter about the machine not working. As for your daughter not carrying cash is a very stupid idea. I’ve always had credit card problems when on vacation expect it. As for payment sorry but what is the cabbie to do? Take a $50 dollar hit which is unjustified on his part? And Gas loss and time? He provided a service then you pay him. As for the port Authority what do you want them to do? They came when a customer wasn’t paying their fair. So blaming them for doing their doing their job is pointless and unfair to them. Did she even try to bargain about getting her ipod back in the future? Did she get the rep from the bank his name?
The bank just likes to pass the blame. Credit card machines work even better at the airport this coming from experience.
Wow. Thanks Lynne Lenhart for wasting five minutes of my life. Let your daughter grow up and deal with her own problems. Furthermore, get over it. Assuming her iPod was actually worth $140 then you are out $90. Is this really worth this much drama? Going to small claims is hardly worth the trouble and you’ll spend far more then $90 before you step foot in court..
To those who believe in always carrying spare cash, I used to subscribe to the philosophy until was was robbed in Paris and lost 150E. And really, why carry cash in the US when there is an Atm on every corner, every grovery store, every 24 hr mini-mart, every bank. Seems so silly. Also, I can only assume that those who advocate cash never went to college, or at least not one far away from home, as they have clearly forgotten what its like to be a poor college student.
@Joe
What’s unfortunate is that real police didn’t get involved instead of PA cops. Real cops (assuming they’re not as dishonoest as the cab driver) know that these are civil matters and at best would have ordered the girl to give her id to the cabbie to copy the name and address. You can’t detain someone because they can’t pay. You can detain things if you have a lien (e.g cars at a garage, luggage at a hotel, etc.), but never people. Debtor prison and slavery have been aboished for a long time.
To the other armchair attorneys, as a business litigation attorney, I can state definitively that: if the girl was so inclined, and could prove her case, she would be be entitled to several thousands of dollar in damages. . False imprisonment and extortion would be easily proven. The punitive damages would only increase is she would prove that the cabbie’s malfunctioning equipment precipitated this entire debacle.
@others
Who believe in the cab driver’s honesty. Why wouldn’t he return the IPOD upon receipf of the fare and shipping charges. Perhaps because he realizes that he got $140 IPOD for a $50 fare. how dishonest is that?
When I was a poor college student in the NYC area, I took trains and the subway to get to JFK airport. I do not always carry cash when walking around the city, but I do always get some from an ATM before arriving at the airport in case of emergencies while travelling.
@Carver, I usually view your comments as the “voice of reason”, but to even bring up the girl being “entitled” to thousands of dollars in damages is a shame. Entitled? I’m not denying that she could win such a lawsuit, but from an ethical standpoint, she did not miss her plane or lose any more than $90 and such a suit would be a perfect example of why people have such a negative view of the tort system in this country.
If Ms. Lenhart left messages for the driver specifically saying that she was trying to contact him in order to send him his fare in exchange for the iPod and he completely ignored them, then I will apologize for giving him the benefit of the doubt. However, if the messages were simply from an irate mother demanding that he call her about returning her daughter’s iPod, then I can’t say I blame him for not calling her back and if she hasn’t been able to leave any messages for him (“can’t contact him” seems to imply that) then I will still hold out hope that he is not intentionally avoiding her.
Carver – not an armchair lawyer here- I’m admitted to the bar in 2 states, numerous federal districts, 2 courts of appeal and the US Supreme Court.
Police can arrest people who take services that they cannot pay for – its not ‘debtors prison,’ its call theft of services and is a crime in New York.
The cabbie wanted to get paid – for WHATEVER reason the cc machine did not work. She had no other way to pay him. No matter who called the PA cops once they arrived there are no facts here from which unlawful detention can be established. Carver – go back to law school – I’d defend this with a jury – and even a jury in Mississippi would not give you ‘thousands.’
You need to prove so much – that the card processed correctly, that the machine was broken, that the card ‘would have worked,’ none of which are remotely possible and that the young woman felt detained against her will by the cabbie and not the apparent authority of the Port Authority Police. I litigate, I’m not a ‘business lawyer,’ whatever that is.
I suppose this is where you politely offer to share the cabbie’s vehicle number with the internet ;)
Truth is you should always have cash on you and there will always be a scam you didn’t plan for. I was in Cambodia once and made the mistake of not having small change and taking a taxi only for the taxi driver to claim he had no change, so I ended up paying more than I should have.
I often use credit cards to pay for taxis when I travel for work. Cash is much more a pain to get reimbursed whereas a credit card is billed directly to my employer. I always tell the driver I’m paying with a card when I get into the car.
I cannot count how many times the card machine “doesn’t work” when I arrive at my destination. I always respond in the same way. I stand firm that I will only be paying by credit card. If the driver refuses to accept it or claims he cannot process it, I explain that is not my problem. I offer the card again. Every denial results in a reduction in tip. I proceed to leave the car. If threatened, I offer the card again, and again. You cannot be arrested for trying to pay for services rendered. In almost every situation like this, the machine “miraculously” starts to work. By this point, there is no tip. None is deserved. Occasionally, I get a free cab ride, through no fault or illegality of my own because my offer to pay was rejected. Its all about standing firm and knowing your rights.
By the way, all these “cash” people are just bullies. And ignorant.
@Joe
You know that’s just not true or should know that its not true. People aren’t usually arrested (or at least convicted) for taking services they cannot pay for, its taking services that they never intended to pay for in the first place. In my previous life, (not literally) I was a criminal defense attorney having argued (sucessfully) in both state and appellate courts including the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and have indeed won a gas and dash case in Michigan.
For the non-lawyers, being admitted to a bar besides the basic state bar, means that you wrote a check.
In New York, even the most cursory reading of the statute (NY Penal Code, §16.15) shows that to prove theft of services you need to prove “intent to avoid payment”. There is nothing in this story which would support any such allegation. In fact, presenting a valid credit/debit card for payment would nearly automatically defeat such a prosecution unless the card was stolen.
Classic theft of services cases include jumping turnstiles, sneaking out of a restaurant (dine and dash), or filling up at a gas station then speeding off (gas and dash).
I’d be very happy to litigate this case any time. Either as plaintiff’s attorney or as a criminal defense attorney. Both are slam dunks under the facts as presented.
@Jess
Thank you for considering me to usually be the voice of reason. Allow me to explain my $1000.00s comment. Yes, the girl is only out $90. However, the actions of the cab driver are egregrious and offensive. He basically extorted the IPOD from this young lady. Such behaviour needs to be punished to prevent it from happening to the next naive young lady that his conveniently malfunctioning machine happens to snare. Its unlikely to be punished criminally(and probably shouldn’t be), therefore a civil punishment is appropriate.
QUOTE: On January 16th, 2009 at 2:55 pm Melissa said “New York taxi drivers are a hard-working group of people and, for the most part, honest. They provide a service and expect to be paid for it. Most of them do not own their cabs nor do they own (nor do they have control over) the credit card machines inside. In fact, they protested the installation of these machines but the TLC forced them into the cabs against their will. ” END QUOTE
This is true, but it simply does not matter. In the end, the company/cabbies have credit card machines in the car; which tells the consumer that he/she will be able to pay with a functioning card at the end of their trip.
If that system does not work, the passenger needs to be informed before the start of the trip, or it will be the cabbies problem. It does not matter (nor is it the customers problem) if the cabbie doesn’t like the machine or was forced into it. I’m sick of these types of arguments. Who cares what the cabbie likes or doesn’t like? It’s still a business and the customer is king. If the cabbies don’t like the machines, they should stop working there and find another job, start a union for protection, or buy their own gypsy cab. Simple as that.
Once something is part of your job, it’s part of your job. The employees can always complain to their employer, but they certainly can’t complain to their customers.
That’s like a doctors office receptionist complaining to a customer about having to take insurance as a payment because it takes longer and possibly could be rejected. If the company offers it, the customer can use it – it simply does not matter what each of the employees think.
it’s the taxi driver’s responsibility to take care of his own equipment in his vehicle. if it’s malfunctioning, it’s his responsibility and you can say tough-luck.
they are not a “luxury” in cabs anymore. they are required.
@ Carver
I’m a cab driver here in Chicago and guess what? Cops have and will arrest people for not paying their fair PERIOD. Your a moron, And a thief. When you have the meter on it is proof of services. I’ve won way too many cases against morons like you.
@Allison
If my Credit card machine doesn’t work because of updating data by banks. You can’t just leave and get a free ride. I have had people arrested for doing the exact thing you claim to do.
George, enough with the name calling. Calling someone a moron does nothing to help your case. Calling someone a thief is worse. You’re a cab driver. That’s what you do and apparently you would support anything a cab driver does–even when it’s wrong and against the law. You’re in Chicago, maybe you know the regulations there, you don’t know the regs in New York or Arizona. So stop acting like you do. It’s been pointed out numerous times here (when you clear away the BS) that the cab driver didn’t follow the regs if the story is as presented.
You should want to make sure that dishonest cab drivers receive appropriate punishment because one bad apple spoils the bunch. Cab drivers aren’t much loved anywhere. Cases like this don’t help.
In fact, not just George, but all the name calling should stop. People calling the woman a liar, thief, god knows what and you don’t even know her? I don’t know what she said is true but I don’t call anyone a liar unless I can prove it. God bless anonymity on the Internets.
The Credit card company lied to your daughter about the machine not working. As for your daughter not carrying cash is a very stupid idea. I’ve always had credit card problems when on vacation expect it. As for payment sorry but what is the cabbie to do? Take a $50 dollar hit which is unjustified on his part? And Gas loss and time? He provided a service then you pay him. As for the port Authority what do you want them to do? They came when a customer wasn’t paying their fair. So blaming them for doing their doing their job is pointless and unfair to them. Did she even try to bargain about getting her ipod back in the future? Did she get the rep from the bank his name?
The bank just likes to pass the blame. Credit card machines work even better at the airport this coming from experience..
Carver – admission to the federal bar is not merely writing a check . . . certainly not the courts of appeal . . .
As for the arguments you raise – they are excellent legal arguments and likely correct – that is why most cops will tell you to ‘tell it to the judge’ You can generally be arrested for a crime in such circumstances and you can raise your defenses later. A cop needs only to have reasonable inference that you have failed to ensure you have the ability to pay and thats all THEY need to arrest you. How many times are people arrested during public protests and in situations like this to avoid conflict. Released OR or with a minor bail. they then get no prosecution because the resources are not there – but that does not mean they still cannot be arrested.
Bob – so the credit card system is ’supposed’ to work – and if it does not – now the cabbies need to be prescient as well? They need to be able to predict when its gonna break down? Or where there is no signal? Can they also predict the lottery and the next election? What happens when you are in a restaurant and YOUR CC does not work – do you expect a free meal?
I completely understand that they WANT to be paid in cash; I WANT to drive a 911 or a Ferrari. The fact remains that often it does not happen.
@Joe
I was very curious about the 2nd Circuit requirements. They are a little anachronistic in that they still require a sponsor, something we on the left coast got rid of in the early 90’s. But besides that, it’s basically, fill out a form, swear an oath, attach a Certificate of Good Standing and write a check. I remember getting sworn into a federal appellate court 2 weeks after becoming an attorney.
But back on point, if New York cops would arrest someone on those facts, that reflects a certain mentality that is unfortunate. Here on the left coast I guess we’re a little different. The rule is really simple, if it’s a civil matter,the cops just make sure that there isn’t a breach of the peace. They would have asked the cabby, did the girl try to run, did she present a credit card in her name, besides the payment not going through, did she do anything to manifest an intent not to ultimately pay. There is a zero percent chance of an arrest. Its the same with not paying at a restaurant because your card was declined. You cannot be forced to wash dishes nor detained by the restaurant owner as long as you give him identifying information.
The case I did in Michigan was a gas and dash. Similar facts. This gas station advertised that it allowed patrons to pay with a check (go figure) but didn’t mention that the customer had to be on the pre-approved list. They woudn’t accept his check, he had no cash, so he left the check on the counter and just left. He was arrested for gas and dash. The police never forwarded charges to the DA because he tried to pay. The officer told me that he wouldn’t have even been arrested had h not left the scene.
@George
Its a shame that you have chosen to debase this spiritted discussion with childish rantings and ad hominem attacks.
College students are notorious for not traveling with enough money. It’s not surprising that she didn’t have any cash with which to pay the cab fare. And George, when I’m in your city next month, you’d better not stop for me, because like it or not, I’m paying with my credit card.
Cab drivers in every city in the world run scams, have inoperable equipment because they don’t keep it maintained, etc. The only reason there is more of that going on in New York as compared to Rushville,IN is because NYC is bigger.
What is the biggest concern in this story is the lack of sensitivity exhibited by the Port Authority personnel…to call these louts “law enforcement” though is denigrating the integrity and reputations of REAL policemen and women who put their lives on the line every day to serve and protect. These are basically glorified security guards who couldn’t get into the REAL police, and use the basis of a uniform to strut around in an arrogant and intimidating pose. We had this type in Montreal patrol our subway and buses until too many complaints came in, the force was disbanded, and the job was given to TRAINED officers, not rent-a-cops in a uniform store rental and a Cracker Jack badge.
Mr. Pcikford – I suggest that you not ever have need of a police officer in NYC while on public transit, in airport, dock or subway station. More PATH police died on Sept 11 than NYC cops. Your statement show an utter lack of knowledge of how police are hired in NYC and what skill sets are needed for each job.
When you do get a clue, you might not have such an opinion.
Since you are the seeming HR professional, Joe, they seem to have been hired with your particular skill sets firmly in hand…to be rude, arrogant, and inflexible, exactly the skill set needed for the Port of Elizabeth where they can bash a few heads when they spot a container theft ring in operation, but out of place when dealing with tourists and representing their city and country to the world.
PATH is an operating subsidiary of PANYNJ, and the reason there were more of their agents at the World Trade Center was simple logistics…the location of transit operations and connecting stations, not because they were there to defend the office tower itself which is your implication and actually serves to denigrate their memory. The subway and city buses and commuter rail lines other than PATH are patrolled by officers employed by the MTA, and those agents have always been helpful when asked a question and I have openly seen them assist tourists with information, directions, etc. I have seen more STATE police in the airports, the PANYNJ directing traffic outside the terminals
I highly doubt that any child grows up wanting to be a PANYNJ officer, unlike those wanting to be part of the NYPD, FBI, CIA, etc.
PANYNJ talks a big game about their “police” on their website, so why didn’t their public affairs people take a closer look at this situation (even without a badge number, date/time would tell them immediately who was working a certain beat) and make a definitive comment rather than keep a stony silence. Any PR flak who keeps quiet or who shifts the blame is covering their proverbial McMullen.
Where’s the President of their Police Brotherhood standing up and making some grandiose move to make amends without admitting guilt?
This Cab BS goes on at DCA all the time with cabs that go to the suburbs.
The drivers want cash, period and they will say do anything that gets them cash.
Unless of course you stand up to them.
Had one A-hole tell me AFTER I got in the cab that it was $10.00 more to pay by credit card. Now I always carry enough cash to cover the fare and a generous tip. I prefer to pay with a card as it makes expense reports easier.
So this guy goes with the broken English routine and says “I’m sorry it’s $10.00 more to pay with Credit card” So get into a bit about how he never told me and my goal is to waste his time now as I have the cash and I demand he get his boss on the phone and he of course refuses, so we dance a bit more and finally I ask for a blank receipt and tell him I have cash. The fare was about $40 and I would have thrown him a $15.00 tip.
This time I hand him the EXACT fare and open the door and he has the balls to ask “You have something for me?” I replied “Yes I have a tip for you. Stay out of the rain! You tried to screw me and now it’s my turn.
BOYO BOYO was he pizzed. I wasted nearly a half hour arguing with him (lost Fares) and NO TIP.
Remember the “Golden Rule, Those with the gold make the rules”
Mr. Pickford, you are the one who is extremely rude and arrogant. You can find examples of overgrown bullies in every “police department”, be it municipal, state, or federal. Ms. Lenhart encountered two PA officers who were not sympathetic to her plight and I’m not excusing their behavior. However, to malign an entire group of people, most of whom are courteous, knowledgeable and take their jobs very seriously, is completely unnecessary. They are absolutely trained to “protect and serve” and deserve just as much respect as the NYPD or any other police department.
Should I assume that all people from Montreal are asses just because you are?
So many foolish arguements here. I can’t believe the amount of people trying to lay blame on the girl for not having cash. HELLO!!! When the company displays a sticker saying that they accept credit cards and then provide the service, expect to get paid via credit card. The burden was on the driver to accept the card as that was a displayed payment option. Also, when a machine is not working you can call the CC company to get authorization over the phone. IMHO the cabbie was out of line and lazy. -and quite possibly was trying to shake down for extra money.
As for the girl not writing the letter, who cares. As long as the events happened, what does it matter who complains or writes a letter. Again some people are trying to lay blame somewhere other than where it belongs.
The cab driver is to blame for the mess pure and simple. Trying to place blame on others for the cab driver’s faults is not right at all.
Wow. Thanks Lynne Lenhart for wasting five minutes of my life. Let your daughter grow up and deal with her own problems. Furthermore, get over it. Assuming her iPod was actually worth $140 then you are out $90. Is this really worth this much drama? Going to small claims is hardly worth the trouble and you’ll spend far more then $90 before you step foot in court…
I have taken taxis all over the world. In most of the developed world they take credit cards. Using a credit card is far safer than carrying around large amounts of cash, and is much simpler for the purposes of currency exchange and expense reports. The only place where taxi drivers hate to take credit cards is here in the USA, where they expect tips, and don’t want them reported to the IRS. I have had several occasions in Europe where the credit card machine in the cab didn’t work. The driver just smiled and broke out the manual imprinter and wrote up the transaction manually.
If you have information about the taxi company, a letter to Visa and MasterCard might be helpful, as the taxi company is probably in breach of their merchant agreements.
I would have to question if the “Port Authority” people that your daughter saw were PAPD. They could have just been rent-a-cops or traffic cops. I have never had an unpleasant interaction with PAPD or NYPD. I know you have written to the TLC and PANYNJ, but have you written to the Honorable Michael Bloomberg. This is the kind of stuff that drives him nuts. NYC wants to be seen as welcoming to tourists, and this does not help their image. Perhaps a letter to the New York Post would also help.
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