Comments on: My airline is grounded — now what? http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/ Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott's site. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: joe http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10845 joe Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:48:16 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10845 I'm not sure the caveat you mention about the Fair Credit Billing Act is accurate. The way I read the text of the bill, the "in-state/100-mile" provision of the FCBA pertains to a lower threshold of disputes pertaining to the quality of a good or service. Items that are billed for and not received fall into one of a set of more strict "billing error" categories that are mentioned earlier in the text. I’m not sure the caveat you mention about the Fair Credit Billing Act is accurate. The way I read the text of the bill, the “in-state/100-mile” provision of the FCBA pertains to a lower threshold of disputes pertaining to the quality of a good or service. Items that are billed for and not received fall into one of a set of more strict “billing error” categories that are mentioned earlier in the text.

]]> By: Brad, DC http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10802 Brad, DC Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:20:39 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10802 I would expect you could get your money back from a credit card because they failed to deliver your purchase. Unlike the person who pays cash to the airline, the credit card companies have all the contract power they need to protect their (and thus your) money. The one thing I would be concerned about is your credit card statement requires you to contest your charges within 30 or 60 days depending on the card. If you purchased your ticket three months ago, will you have trouble with the credit card company? I would expect you could get your money back from a credit card because they failed to deliver your purchase. Unlike the person who pays cash to the airline, the credit card companies have all the contract power they need to protect their (and thus your) money.

The one thing I would be concerned about is your credit card statement requires you to contest your charges within 30 or 60 days depending on the card. If you purchased your ticket three months ago, will you have trouble with the credit card company?

]]> By: MNflyer http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10782 MNflyer Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:43:02 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10782 Champion Air has not filed bankruptcy and is not intending to nor are their aircraft grounded. They are responsibly winding down operations by May 31st. All employees will be paid and taken care of. No passenger will be inconvenienced as they are a charter carrier and the tour operator customer is making arrangements with other carriers to operate charter flights at the same time or re-book passengers on scheduled service. Unlike Aloha and ATA (Skybus now included) who left passengers, investors, and employees out in the cold Champion seems to be doing the appropriate and responsible thing when faced with a tough decision. Someone should be pointing out that in the time of ethics issues and distrust of airlines that there are some companies that still do the right thing. Also with a charter carrier the monies for transport are held in escrow by DOT regulations so that if the carrier goes belly up the passengers can get their money back. Champion Air has not filed bankruptcy and is not intending to nor are their aircraft grounded. They are responsibly winding down operations by May 31st. All employees will be paid and taken care of. No passenger will be inconvenienced as they are a charter carrier and the tour operator customer is making arrangements with other carriers to operate charter flights at the same time or re-book passengers on scheduled service. Unlike Aloha and ATA (Skybus now included) who left passengers, investors, and employees out in the cold Champion seems to be doing the appropriate and responsible thing when faced with a tough decision. Someone should be pointing out that in the time of ethics issues and distrust of airlines that there are some companies that still do the right thing. Also with a charter carrier the monies for transport are held in escrow by DOT regulations so that if the carrier goes belly up the passengers can get their money back.

]]> By: Lawrence Greer http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10708 Lawrence Greer Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:18:32 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10708 To all you paying passengers boarding your flights " Welcome to DE-REGULATION " To all you paying passengers boarding your flights ” Welcome to DE-REGULATION “

]]> By: Skybus shuts down abruptly, third scheduled U.S. airline to fold this week » Upgrade: Travel Better http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10687 Skybus shuts down abruptly, third scheduled U.S. airline to fold this week » Upgrade: Travel Better Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:08:31 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10687 [...] an itinerary, you can try to get your ticket honored by another airline, but as Chris Elliott has pointed out after previous airline shutdowns, there’s no law requiring them to do so. If any other [...] [...] an itinerary, you can try to get your ticket honored by another airline, but as Chris Elliott has pointed out after previous airline shutdowns, there’s no law requiring them to do so. If any other [...]

]]> By: RC http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10681 RC Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:36:02 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10681 The other carrier at Portsmouth, Boston-Maine Airways (operating under the brand name "Pan Am"), got a show-cause order in February and folded in March. The other carrier at Portsmouth, Boston-Maine Airways (operating under the brand name “Pan Am”), got a show-cause order in February and folded in March.

]]> By: SirWired http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10677 SirWired Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:26:20 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10677 Well, add SkyBus to the list... SirWired Well, add SkyBus to the list…

SirWired

]]> By: john http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10669 john Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:10:49 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10669 And guess what, skybus just dropped. They just shut down like a couple hours ago. I was dropping my friend off for a flight in portsmouth nh and they got the call while we were checking in. This is crazy And guess what, skybus just dropped. They just shut down like a couple hours ago. I was dropping my friend off for a flight in portsmouth nh and they got the call while we were checking in. This is crazy

]]> By: beatofhawaii.com http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10666 beatofhawaii.com Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:35:43 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10666 I don't wish to spread gloom, but Mesa (and thus Go! here in Hawaii) are looking quite precarious. With the recent loss of one of their Delta contracts representing nearly 20% of their business, and with their stock and market capitalization at historic lows, I'm not sure what's in the cards for them. I did a lengthy post on the Hawaii transporation market on my site today, if that's of interest. Aloha, Jeff I don’t wish to spread gloom, but Mesa (and thus Go! here in Hawaii) are looking quite precarious. With the recent loss of one of their Delta contracts representing nearly 20% of their business, and with their stock and market capitalization at historic lows, I’m not sure what’s in the cards for them.

I did a lengthy post on the Hawaii transporation market on my site today, if that’s of interest.

Aloha,
Jeff

]]> By: Joe Farrell http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10659 Joe Farrell Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:14:03 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10659 Sir - they refund immediately because they are holding money - if there company no longer has money left - there is no LEGAL requirement that the credit card issuer refund the charge. It does not satisfy the Fair Credit rules pertaining to refunds for charges where you do not get what you bargained for or never get it at all . . .. Sir – they refund immediately because they are holding money – if there company no longer has money left – there is no LEGAL requirement that the credit card issuer refund the charge. It does not satisfy the Fair Credit rules pertaining to refunds for charges where you do not get what you bargained for or never get it at all . . ..

]]> By: Exploring the Globe » Blog Archive » WHAT TO DO WHEN YOUR AIRLINE DEFAULTS http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10636 Exploring the Globe » Blog Archive » WHAT TO DO WHEN YOUR AIRLINE DEFAULTS Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:06:47 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10636 [...] are usually no great solutions for the dilemma of stranded passengers but The Consumerist and the elliott websites are sharing some advice that might soften the blow when coping with the first shock of the [...] [...] are usually no great solutions for the dilemma of stranded passengers but The Consumerist and the elliott websites are sharing some advice that might soften the blow when coping with the first shock of the [...]

]]> By: SirWired http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10628 SirWired Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:06:15 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10628 The policies of credit card banks must vary wildly. I booked a cruise on WindJammer Barefoot Cruises in June for a cruise over New Year's. The company stopped sailing in August, but didn't "officially" cancel the cruise until November. I didn't call the bank until January (I had hoped they would resume sailing... I wanted my cruise, not my money). They refunded my money instantly, without so much as a single fax or form to fill out. This was over six months after the initial charge. SirWired The policies of credit card banks must vary wildly. I booked a cruise on WindJammer Barefoot Cruises in June for a cruise over New Year’s. The company stopped sailing in August, but didn’t “officially” cancel the cruise until November.

I didn’t call the bank until January (I had hoped they would resume sailing… I wanted my cruise, not my money). They refunded my money instantly, without so much as a single fax or form to fill out. This was over six months after the initial charge.

SirWired

]]> By: Jasper http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10621 Jasper Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:53:10 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10621 @ JF: This all confirms my 'crazy idea' that customers are treated as a liability the second they have paid for their ticket. An airline would much like to not have you show up, and just pocket your money. This is also the underlying reason why customer service is down the drain. They have your money, so there is no motivation for the company anymore to service you. All they need to do is get rid of their liability for the least money possible. New regulation proposal: Customers a only a 'down payment' on their ticket when they purchase it. Airlines are only allowed to charge the customer from the moment they actually show up at the airport. Only *after* completion of the trip, the customer has to separately authorize the payment of the full ticket. Now before anybody starts whining about customers not going to pay for their trip, ask yourself if the airlines are behaving any better themselves now? @ JF: This all confirms my ‘crazy idea’ that customers are treated as a liability the second they have paid for their ticket. An airline would much like to not have you show up, and just pocket your money. This is also the underlying reason why customer service is down the drain. They have your money, so there is no motivation for the company anymore to service you. All they need to do is get rid of their liability for the least money possible.

New regulation proposal: Customers a only a ‘down payment’ on their ticket when they purchase it. Airlines are only allowed to charge the customer from the moment they actually show up at the airport. Only *after* completion of the trip, the customer has to separately authorize the payment of the full ticket.

Now before anybody starts whining about customers not going to pay for their trip, ask yourself if the airlines are behaving any better themselves now?

]]> By: Joe Farrell http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10609 Joe Farrell Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:25:52 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10609 The reason why credit card companies always refund money for airlines that go tango uniform is that the airline has a LARGE cash deposit with the credit card company to protect the credit from this very event. The amount of this fund changes with the financial condition of the carrier. I forget which airline bankruptcy this came to light in, but Mastercard and Visa refused to cooperate with the company and prevented them from coming out until they resolved the outstanding dispute over how much they needed to leave on deposit to secure their air traffic liability. You see, airlines spend the money you give them as soon as they get it. They then carry a line item in their balance sheets called 'air traffic liability.' This is the amount of air travel they owe their customers for for future flights. As an airline starts to get into financial trouble, Mastercard and Visa [and AMEX I believe] begin to increase the amounts held in reserve by the credit card companies to three and some cases four months charges so that they have a cushion in the event the company goes belly up. The key to obtaiing a refund is NEVER NEVER NEVER buy an airline ticket more than 4 months before you intend to travel. These days you can get the same fare 2 weeks out as you can 6 months out - so why let them have your money? The reason why credit card companies always refund money for airlines that go tango uniform is that the airline has a LARGE cash deposit with the credit card company to protect the credit from this very event. The amount of this fund changes with the financial condition of the carrier. I forget which airline bankruptcy this came to light in, but Mastercard and Visa refused to cooperate with the company and prevented them from coming out until they resolved the outstanding dispute over how much they needed to leave on deposit to secure their air traffic liability.

You see, airlines spend the money you give them as soon as they get it. They then carry a line item in their balance sheets called ‘air traffic liability.’ This is the amount of air travel they owe their customers for for future flights. As an airline starts to get into financial trouble, Mastercard and Visa [and AMEX I believe] begin to increase the amounts held in reserve by the credit card companies to three and some cases four months charges so that they have a cushion in the event the company goes belly up.

The key to obtaiing a refund is NEVER NEVER NEVER buy an airline ticket more than 4 months before you intend to travel. These days you can get the same fare 2 weeks out as you can 6 months out – so why let them have your money?

]]> By: My airline is grounded… now what? | tripso.com - International travel news and commentary http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/comment-page-1/#comment-10604 My airline is grounded… now what? | tripso.com - International travel news and commentary Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:36:01 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/blog/my-airline-is-grounded-now-what/#comment-10604 [...] Elliott has some bad news for travelers on the recently grounded Aloha Airlines, Champion Air and ATA. First, no federal law says that [...] [...] Elliott has some bad news for travelers on the recently grounded Aloha Airlines, Champion Air and ATA. First, no federal law says that [...]

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