Denyse Sadkin and her husband had two first-class tickets from St. Thomas to Buffalo on US Airways. At least they did until the airline bumped one of them back to economy class to make room for a crewmember.
The Sadkins, which had redeemed a total of 120,000 frequent flier miles for their flights, weren’t happy with their new seats, so they asked US Airways to be rerouted. It refused. They ended up paying American Airlines $1,500 for a more circuitous flight back to Buffalo via Boston.
US Airways didn’t apologize and offered no explanation, except to say they had booked their seats using frequent flier miles. So they came to me for help.
I recommended they ask again, this time to a few executives who might be in a position to review their case. They did — sort of.
Dear Mr. Sadkin:
On behalf of Doug Parker, Robert Isom, and the Executive Office, thank you for your recent correspondence. I appreciate the opportunity to address your concerns.
Please accept our apology for the disappointing service you received in St. Thomas in regards to your downgrade on your return flight. As was explained, US Airways deadheading crew members are given priority in cases where it is necessary for them to travel due to operational needs of the airline. I do apologize for any inconvenience or difficulties this may have caused you.
Our records indicate that authority was given for the miles for the return portion of your flight to be deposited to your Dividend Miles account as you opted not to take your US Airways flight. We regret that we cannot honor your request for reimbursement of the ticketing charges you incurred with American Airlines as you voluntarily chose to fly with another carrier.
Mr. Sadkin, thank you for allowing us the opportunity to explain our position. We hope we have the opportunity to serve your future travel needs.
So let me see if I understand this: US Airways is bumping its best customers out of first class in order to make room for a crewmember? Didn’t a Delta Air Lines executive do the same thing to make room for his kids a few years ago? That didn’t win the airline any points from its most loyal passengers.
Needless to say, this could have been handled better. But I took US Airways’ response, which had come from its executive office, as its final answer. I advised Sadkin to take the airline to small claims court.
Here’s what happened.
We filed in small claims court and had the pleasure of dealing with a claims rep from US Airways [name redacted]. She was wonderful. If half the US Airways staff had her personality they might not have so many issues. She truly is a gem.
She showed up for court on Jan. 7th along with us. To make along story short, we were able to settle before going before the judge. She agreed to give us an additional 120,000 miles (we received 120,000 on Nov 16th when we didn’t take our flight home) plus two $800 cash vouchers for travel to be used within the next two years.
We still had to let the judge know what our settlement was, and it was put on the record. We were also told that if we have any problem using the cash vouchers we could re-submit in small claims court again.
The rep was actually put off at some of the email responses we received from the executive office. And as it turns out, we were told that the reason we were bumped was because we used frequent flier miles — although every email from the US Airways executive office said it wasn’t. They would rather bump a mileage passenger than a revenue passenger.
I think US Airways needs to take a hard look at its bumping policy. Downgrading your best customers is not going to encourage brand loyalty. It could land you in court.
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I think US Air needs to figure out when they are flying crew. I (resent but) understand by they overbook and sometimes have to bump folks. However, they should be able to predict how many of their own crew show up, and be able to make room for them.
The only business reason for downgrading the passengers to make room for the employees is that the back of the aircraft was expected to arrive later than the front of the aircraft. Therefore the deadheading, non-revenue employees would have been very late to their destination.
That outcome is not possible, unless US Air expected a crash landing.
This sounds like a really good go-out-of-business strategy to be disrespectful of future paying passengers to overcome poor management practices for crew scheduling and deadheading transportation. Forcing a small claims action by the passengers was over the top.
PS: The mileage passengers are not non-revenue. They paid plenty over the years to get those points.
PPS: I think the real reason is that the deadheading, non-revenue employees had no interest in sitting in the cramped, uncomfortable, coach cabin.
Good to know that small claims court ended up with a settlement rather than a default judgement where the wronged party is left holding a bag to collect.
I don’t understand why the crew member HAD to sit in first class if there were seats in economy. I have no problem with crew riding in first class if there are seats available, but serously? Would they have bumped a “revenue” passanger down to economy? Bad business policy.
Rather than bumping the loyal passengers from first class, why didn’t the crew sit in the economy seats? Common sense says to fill empty seats before shuffling around a bunch of people and pissing them off. After all, the Sadkins did pay for their seats, while the employees are just hitching a free ride to get to where they are needed. I agree with SpotLightofTruth that the Sadkins are revenue customers because they had to spend a great deal to be able to use the FF miles.
To add to my previous comment, I also thought that deadheading had the lowest priority.
Why did USAirways NOT put the crew member in the
available coach seat?
a similar thing happened to my husband and I when we flew from Los Angeles to London last year on United. We had checked in over 2 hrs before the flight, and as we were getting on, we were told that we could no longer fly in business class because of a change in equipment – though others in the same situation were allowed to stay in business class. We had paid for the tickets but used miles to upgrade. I had to flight with them for vouchers, and miles to be returned to our account. The vouchers were only good for less than one year. I certainly wished I had contacted you. I had sent an article to the LA Times, and after she thoroughly researched my comments, she agreed to just forget it because United was not going to budge.
With this incident, US has shown that they do not care about their most elite customers. It would be one thing if this was from a front-line representative, or even a manager. But the -executive office- thinks that these people were treated according to their policies. Hoorah for small claims court so that these passengers were able to get what they deserve.
I am so glad that I stopped flying US. I will fall from “Gold” elite to nothing this year as I started flying United and Continental in February 2008 and I am extremely satisfied.
Deadheading usually has one of the highest priorities because the company is sending a person somewhere to work another flight. Their contract probably requires that person to ride in first class, however if the deadheading crew member knew someone was being bumped, the right thing to do would have been to volunteer to ride in coach. Otherwise USAir should have bumped a single passenger, not half of a couple flying together.
USAur did not put the crew in the cheap seats because the pilot contract provides that Captains have the right to sit in F class when on company business.
In the system, I would guess that the free ticketed passengers show up essentially as non-rev.
Yes – the Captain should have accepted the middle seat in coach in the back.
You can’t fix stupid.
My understanding is the same of Joe and others. Crews deadheading on their way to work are contractually entitled to first class. As to whether they should accept a coach seat or not is a fair question.
While I think it was silly to bump half of a couple, I think that I would rather give up my seat so that the captain on my next flight was rested while he deadheaded (probably to replace a sick or absent crew member) and wasn’t tired when I was the passenger on that flight…
BUT usair should of bowed and scraped and given vouchers, and miles to make up for taking that seat. When they took it, not months later…I think most people given a reasonable explanation of why the seat was needed, would be amenable to change.
What do you expect from an airline that flies a replica of the United States flag backwards on the right-side of all it’s aircraft?
It supposed to be against the law but the federal government also doesn’t halt the U.S. Postal Service from desecrating the flag each time it postmarks its first class stamps with the flag.
A deadheading crewmember, very likely, will get off the plane and go to directly operate another flight. In the current environment, where the NTSB lists crew fatigue as a major safety priority, it is fair to say that requiring on-duty crew members to fly first class benefits flight safety. Not giving up the seat for the crew member can result in a entire delayed flight, or at worst, an accident.
It’s not just their bumping policies it’s their whole approach as an Airline.
I recently flew US Airways round trip to Madrid, Spain from Phoenix, AZ with a brief layover in Philadelphia. In addition to several delays on the flight over they somehow managed to burn the dinner they served me. Chicken on rice…only the rice was literally burned brown. The return flight across the Atlantic was on an old junker – I snapped this photo of the exit door: http://www.alex-berger.net/MainGallery/displayimage.php?pid=3143&fullsize=1 note that in addition the the outer edge being damaged, the exit handle was separated from the door.
Combine that with the 5 hour Phili->Phx leg of the flight during which beverages (including water) were only available for purchase and I have nothing but disgust for US Airways. Oversold, under delivered.
It sounds like this flight had a relief pilot onboard (IRO). US Airways pilots have it in their contract that they are to have a first class (domestic) and business class (international) crew rest seat when the daily duty flight time period goes over 8 hours.
The reason is simple — three pilots are needed so each can take a break and the flight can operate and of course they need to have quick access to the cockpit — hence no coach class seats. Normally these seats are blocked out, but St. Thomas flights usually go under the 8 hour turn point from PHL or CLT. All it takes is a delay on the ground or headwinds and the operations change where they have to put on a relief pilot.
I agree US Airways did not handle this well in the beginning. There should have been more empathy and an appropriate apology in compensation. I am glad they came through in the end. However, you have to wonder why a legitimate customer issue goes so far without being taken care of in the first place? Clearly there are middle managers at the company that need to be canned.
Best,
Anita Dunham-Potter
I don’t have all the facts, but it’s unusual to think a crew deadhead or company business positive F space travel would occur from St. Thomas back to a US Airways base. Also crew in uniform have jumpseat options available. Could this have been a Homeland Security Air Marshall issue or just poor judgment on the part of the crew member or gate agent? In any event a satisfactory resolution resulted.
It seems to me that the airlines want to have their cake and eat it too.
When you want to move from coach to first class, they want a huge premium. However, if they want to move you from first class to coach, they offer a pittance as compensation.
I once had a paid F ticket on Alaska. On the way home, there was a mechanical and anyone with a connection was stranded in Seattle for the night. They could only confirm coach until late the next day. The refund offered was something like $50. At least they did put us up in a hotel, but it was an hour south of the airport and we had no way to get to our liquids (this was during the time you weren’t even able to bring a plastic bag of liquids). The hotel had like 6 toothbrushes and 3 toothpaste tubes for 3 van loads of passengers.
I honestly don’t see the reasoning behind placing mileage flyers lower than customers who paid cash. The people who collect miles are more likely to fly again, so why give them a bad experience?
Mike said it all:
“When you want to move from coach to first class, they want a huge premium. However, if they want to move you from first class to coach, they offer a pittance as compensation.”
Who is to say that these folks are the “most elite” customers of US Airways? For all anyone knows they may have never set foot on a plane and have been using a US Airways credit card for all of their purchases.
I always heard that the pilots union has it in the agreement that certain levels of pilots will get first class. I also think Anita is right on target with the assessment of the crew hours.
Sure, US Airways should have explained it better. But come on, it is a reward ticket. They are the lowest of the totem pole and you can see these programs are being decimated daily.
So to summarize, for $1500 (American tickets) they flew round trip to St Thomas from Buffalo, earned enough points for 4 round trip first class seats to do it again (they got 120K when demoted and another 120K when in court) plus two $800 vouchers? Please book me on the next flight!
Anita – c’mon , where are they going to find a relief pilot in St. Thomas? That is a non-starter explanation. They probably called a guy FROM an overnight crew there – or – someone OVERRODE the system to give someone a F class seat which belonged to the flight crew.
There is a simple explanation here but its not ‘bringing in a relief pilot’ on STT. . . where is s/he gonna come from? They are not gonna fly crew to STT to go to buffalo . . . . the next obvious point is: USAir has a nonstop from St. Thomas to Buffalo? They don’t have to Hartford and New York for gosh sakes, they have one to Buffalo?
It would appear not – I have checked USAir’s schedule and they do NOT have an STT-BUF nonstop = so – what are the OP’s here talking about? Did they get bumped in STT or PHL?
We really need to start verifying facts here.
I just checked – USAir only had nonstops to CLT and PHL.
That means the OP was bumped on the FINAL leg from either CLT or PHL to BUF.
They flew in F class from BUF to PHL/CLT and then from there to STT.
They then flew in F class from STT to PHL or CLT. At THAT point, since they complained about the trip to BUFFALO, they got bumped.
So they received AT LEAST 75% of their trip in F class. Further, US operates TONS of RJ’s on the route- so they COULD have been on a flight that did not have F class and had F class on that route incidentally.
They wanted ALL of their miles refunded – even though they RECEIVED 3/4th of their trip as advertised, and, more importantly, got off the plane in STT first and got to customs in the US first by being in F out of STT.
Whiners. Both of them. Shame on them for being greedy. They SHOULD have asked for what they did not get – whichwas 30,000 miles each.
Are they telling us that American had F class ALL the way from CLT/PHL to BUF? NO! ALL AA flights to BUF from ORD or BOS are RJ’s. So there was NO F class. Misleading at best.
John F,
Airlines sell frequent flier miles to the credit card companies and are paid real money for those miles. The credit card companies then turn around and reward their customers for using their branded credit card.
For you to imply that US Airways derives zero revenue from customers who have accumulated and paid for their tickets using credit card FF miles is stupid and shows your lack of understanding on this subject.
To Joe Farrell. This is Mrs. Sadkin. I noticed you said that you checked. Did you check your facts??? No! We were bumped in STT on our way home to BUF. We only took half of our flight (BUF -STT) We were not bumped on the “Final” leg of our trip.
We never complained and that’s why we were bumped – again we were bumped in STT going home from vaca.
So I’m curious; who did you check your facts with, since your stating on this website that you know what happened???
Also, if you looked at the US Air website, you would notice that it costs 120,000 miles PER PERSON to fly first class to STT. Not 60,000.
No, we did not ask for the miles back in our account. They put them there. As far as we were concerned, we really didn’t want to fly US Air at any time soon. (between what has happened, and the fact that they have lost our luggage on every trip we have taking with them)
So you may call me greedy, I have no problem with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But when you state something as a fact, and it’s not…..well, that’s just ignorant.
So again, please tell the message board, who did you check your facts with??? Because I don’t know you.
Ms. Sadkin – there is no and has been no USairways flight from STT-BUF.
So, you were not bumped on the flight to BUF. ONE of you was bumped on the flight from STT to either CLT or PHL.
So which leg was it?
As for ‘facts,’ I can only assume the facts you gave us. YOU made the mistake of providing incomplete facts to people when YOU contacted Chris originally.
Look, the ‘facts’ are that US does not fly either direct or nonstop from STT to BUF. You had TWO legs to get to BUF, thus you could only have been bumped from the flight to either CLT or STT.
YOU are the person who told us that you were bumped on the flight to ‘Buffalo.’ Since US does not operate a nonstop or direct flight to BUF, it is a REASONABLE conclusion to take you at your word, which is that you were bumped on the flight to BUFFALO.
YOU NEVER said that you were bumped IN STT, you SAID you were bumped on your flight to Buffalo.
YOU caused the confusion by not providing complete and accurate statement of what happened.
If you SAID you were bumped IN STT, that would have resulted in a different conclusion.
I also ‘assume’ that you flew from BUF to STT with no problem, correct?
YOU guys made the choice for BOTH of you to take AA. I presume that ONE of you could have easily taken the one first class seat that you did have, and take the luggage, and gone home. Not the best end to a vacation, but they did offer you transportation home in the class booked.
US THEN offered you FULL refund of the miles not used. Why did you not accept that? Under what legal theory does the person who HAD the F class seat become entitled to compensation in the lawsuit?
Finally, admit you were not in F class from BOS-BUF. AA operates an RJ on that route that does NOT have F class in the airplane. So, explain for me please what the difference was both of you flying coach from BOS-BUF versus one of you flying coach from STT-CLT/PHL and then both in F class from there to BUF?
It just seems a little extreme and a complete overreaction by both of you in STT. I mean, I’m assuming you were coming BACK from a vacation and should have been pretty relaxed . . ..
Yes, the entire flight (both legs) were bumped! Chris knows the facts. He has every e-mail from Us Airways and myself. Because he chose not to print for privacy reasons the entire letter to US Airways and every response.
I have been flying to and from STT twice a year since 1998. I am well aware of the flight routes. I never have or never did say it was a non-stop flight. You as usual made that assumption.
Again you’re entitled to your opinion of what could have happened and what we could have done. But for us, US Air felt that what they did WAS wrong and did owe us compensation. You can make all the judgements you want, but fact remains US Air compensated us.
And yes we did fly home on AA in First Class from STT-BUF. (with a layover!!)
Now Joe, I understand you share your opinion often on this Blog. If you are assuming that every article you read is the “entire” story; then that’s your own ignorance. Chris printed the article to share with the public (as he does all of the other articles) what has been happening with the Travel Industry (good or bad). If he had printed everything I sent him; it would have been over 10 pages long. I trust him and I thought he did a good job with getting the point across. If you don’t, then maybe you should go back to him and let him know that.
You tell em’ Denyse!
Then give us all the darned facts in the beginning. . . don’t make us guess and assume or conclude from incomplete info,
Chris Elliott- give us all the facts, not just the facts that make your story sound good. Be a writer instead of a journalist. . .
Joe is just a blowhard…
Ditto — Joe, you’re an annoying know-it-all and you assume you are the expert in everything regarding travel. You don’t. In this case, admit you made incorrect assumptions and then apologize to Mrs. Sadkin. A lot of us are tired of you monopolizing this forum with your supercilious comments.
why did this employee need to sit in first class? This person should have been put in coach,
Well, it’s real easy to figure out what happened. The real bosses of the company, the Pilot’s Union, have a contract that states their members when deadheading (company business) get first class seating above anyone.
I guess that at least makes them feel they get something for those union dues.
Deadheading is not a “lowest priority.” Flying “standby” on your own time/vacation is low priority and based on senority. A pilot who needs to fly to his/her destination in order to DO HIS/HER JOB sometiems has to deadhead. My husband is a pilot for USAirways. Pilots have contracts, which includes seating priorries. All airlines have to have space available for its crew to get to where they’re going to do their jobs as pilots. A pilot doesn’t have to sit in economy. My husband has been in that situation and he has given up his seat for a coach seat so that a paying passenger can enjoy their business class seat. At least he’s one pilot that knows about customer service.
Management is terrible. Pilots have lost their pension, including my husband after 17 years of service with USairways. If you think they don’t take care of their customers, why would you think they would take care of its customers.
ME: I fly on airlines other than USairways. Pretty sad.
Joe is wrong in this case. (Does he work for US Airways?) :P
If this case was before my court, US Airways would not have done so well. Sorry guys, US Airways should have taken a proactive approach to making these people happy from the start. No sympathy here for management.
Another ax to grind is that Allegheny County in Pittsburgh has wronged US Airways, and their employees by sucking the life out of that airline and trying to screw the new company under the old contract. Many people lost pensions and money including health care. Thanks government scum.
We have all taken our lumps in this little joy ride.
Joe, its better for people to think you are a fool than for you to open your hole and remove all doubt. The airline would not have been so generous in the end if they thought their case was iron clad and someone was being greedy.
Passengers are not bumped out of 1st class just so that crew members can enjoy the champagne.
Flying crew members (pilot, co-pilot), are normally, as per employment contract, provided firm 1st class seats for deadheading (duty related flight).
This is not for luxury reasons. The reasoning behind that is that flying crew need to be fresh and alert when they get to the destination, so that they can properly fulfill their flying duties there.
There obviously was a mistake somewhere, and 1st class was overbooked. The airline was probably facing the choice of upsetting 1st class passengers vs breaching a pilots contract and deadheading procedures. They obviously chose n.1.
Why did they pick you? I cant answer that.
In my opinion, they also did another mistake by denying you proper compensation and therefore motivating you, and giving you ground for taking them to court.
I love the “pilots need to fly 1st class so they can be fresh and alert” line. Does that mean that all the peons in coach won’t be “fresh and alert” when they arrive to do their business? This sounds like a textbook definition of hypocrisy to me.
I can’t understand the First Class requirement either. For me to accrue enough miles to fly first class is a rare and treasured thing. For long flights say from LAX to NRT I really need it for many reasons other than pleasure. I would be very upset to be bumped for a crew member who obviously would be younger and healthier than I am. Since reading about this “bump” I get very apprehensive using my miles…I strongly disagree with the airline for selecting someone who is using frequent flyer miles to be bumped. What is the point of a loyalty program if you are basically flying stand-by. I suppose if the flight is overbooked in general..the ff flyer will always be the person bumped?
sandie, maybe you’re still within the limits for Chris to help you.
I’m with the people questioning why the employees are taking the best seats free. I think that’s despicable. Obsiously not raised in a good home. The guest should always be given the best.
What if the deadhead was USAir Capt. Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger on his way to New York to substitute pilot on January 15, 2009? Anyone want to change their position on flying first class or middle seat coach?
I’ve been flyin all night, my hands wet on the wheel
My super calls said, “I need ya here!”
We’ve got a thing they call radar love
We’ve got a light in the sky–radar love
“Brace for impact!”
Nobody was faster
It’s amazing that the couple had a great day in small claims court. Kudos the the representative from US Airways. How can an airline carrier overbook a plane? So much for technology and communication.