Michael Winn is the president of a private university, a US Airways frequent flier, and according to at least one flight attendant, an imminent threat to security. Why else would he have kicked Winn off a recent flight from Charlotte to Phoenix?
As I read Winn’s complaint and the response from US Airways — I’ll get to those in a sec — I had two thoughts: This is either a case study in what not to do if you’re seated in an exit row. Or it’s yet another example of flight attendants abusing their post-9/11 powers. Or maybe both.
Either way, I’m not wearing my eyemask until after takeoff, and I’m going to be extra nice to my crewmember on my next flight — especially if it’s on US Airways.
Here’s Winn’s story.
I was sitting in an exit row in a window seat, and a steward — a male in his late 40’s or early 50’s — had asked me to remove the eye mask from my eyes and move the seat forward in preparation for takeoff, to which I immediately complied.
However, after that, the pilot announced a mechanical problem and delay with the door. I put the seat back and the eye mask back on to rest, as I had not had any sleep that night and had to get up at 4 a.m. to fly from Asheville to Charlotte. I have seen these delays last an hour or longer.
The situation escalated when another passenger asked for a favor.
The passenger in my row, in the aisle seat, asked the steward if she could move a friend into the empty middle seat.
Steward replied, “Yes, but only after takeoff.” Steward then looked at me, and said, “You will of course have to move your small handbag from the empty middle seat to make room for the passenger.”
I said I would prefer to wait until the new passenger actually arrived. The handbag was a cloth bag, about the size of a paperback book. Steward then changed his request: “You need to move that bag now, in case it goes flying about – can I put it up above for you?”
I said I prefer to hold it on my lap, and wrapped its cloth strap around my wrist and laid it on my lap, as it held my wallet. Note that the steward did NOT say, “I’m sorry, but plane regulations require you put your wallet up above.” I knew of course that larger bags could not be held in an exit row during takeoff.
Strangely, the steward pointed his finger at me, with thumb raised up in the air as if it were a pistol, and said, “It looks like you and I are in for a conflict.” Then he walked away. I dismissed it as odd behavior, or maybe a poor attempt at humor.
It was no joke. Winn says he was escorted from the plane. “I was threatened with arrest and deplaned for wearing an eyemask,” he told me.
Eventually, US Airways rebooked him on the next flight to Phoenix.
So what does the airline say about the incident? Winn sent an email to the company asking it to address the incident. Here’s what it told him:
Thank you for contacting Customer Relations at US Airways. We are sorry you were unable to take your originally scheduled flight. We are in receipt of your explanation and concern regarding the situation on Flight 306, September 1, 2009 in Charlotte.
Through our investigation and from internal reports of the incident you described, it appears our personnel view this encounter from a different perspective. When there is any question as to a passenger’s behavior, the Captain has the authority to deny travel. We have an obligation to all our customers to provide them with professional service carried out in a safe, secure environment.
Our reports indicate the Captain of Flight supported the recommendation, and we uphold that decision.
In other words, you probably were interfering with the flight crew. Go away.
Not to go all academic on you, but I’m struck by the way words are being used in this dispute. Winn’s use of the archaic term “steward” suggest he spent a lot of time flying before airline deregulation, when flight attendants were there to serve you, primarily. And US Airways capitalization of the words “captain” and “flight” suggests it has an inflated sense of self-importance. No wonder Winn is getting nowhere with his complaint.
My recommendation? I would take the $400,000 he spends on travel with US Airways every year and find another carrier. The airline had a chance to review his complaint and respond, and its terse rebuttal suggests it no longer values his business.
(Photo: San Diego Shooter/Flickr Creative Commons)
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I’m thinking that if Winn had simply put his cloth bag under the seat in front of him, this situation never would have escalated. Then again I’ve been on flights with holier-than-thou flight attendants, and it may have just been a lose-lose situation from the start.
Mr. Winn needs to write one more letter to US Airways, making sure that they understand exactly why they lost his business.
UNREAL and I’ve been a flight attendant! No wonder US Airways is consistently voted most likely to fail. Your recommendation is spot on. Spend your money on another carrier!!!
I strongly suspect there is more to this story than the OP has related… and I don’t blame USAir for not relaying their side of the story in a public e-mail; it’s a no-win situation.
Also, it is perfectly acceptable for USAir to capitalize those words. They ARE important terms, as the captain is solely in charge of the safety of the flight. He/She has tremendous responsibility (and blame in case of a problem), and is given absolute authority over the plane in return.
Christopher,
While I usually love your advice to people in these situations, unfortunately this is one of those cases where it might not work. Mr. Winn, like many of us who fly regularly out of Charlotte, is quite likely to find himself held hostage by the hub system. USAirways controls the vast majority of the flights into and out of the Charlotte area, and as such has no need to offer an acceptable level of customer service, because we can’t take our money anywhere else. For many flights, our options are thus: fly USAirways, make one or more connections and dramatically increase our travel time, or drive to another airport several hours away and dramatically increase our travel time.
I can’t speak for Mr. Winn, but in my role as a sales manager, I usually cannot afford (literally) to sacrifice an entire day for travel when I can suffer through the poor service I find at a hub provider and drastically reduce my travel time. And the problem doesn’t exist just with USAirways, either, but is (I feel) a natural outgrowth of the hub system. I receive excellent customer service flying AirTran out of Charlotte, where they are struggling to get every customer they can, but have seen atrocious behavior in Atlanta, an AirTran hub.
Unfortunately this is one case where deregulation has not increased competition, but had the exact opposite effect, which is not good for anyone – travellers, airlines, or even travel writers.
Thanks for all you do, I enjoy your blog and columns!
Michael;
Do what I did. Write a letter to the CEO. Detail what happened. Show how much business you have done with their airline.
THEN…explain to them how they will NEVER get another cent from you, how you will ensure that NONE of your employees use their airline for business travel with your organization.
Post with C. Elliott & every other blog you can.
MAKE it your purpose in life to cost them every bit of business you can.
I was able to cost United a lot of money over the years. Looks like you can hurt US Air even worse. I have also been able to promote American Airlines for their fine response to my problem.
Remember HURT those that mess with you & promote those that do GOOD by you.
If enough people follow this simple rule these people will eventually get it that they had better provide decent service.
TOM BROLLINI
I dunno about the rest of you, but my “not getting the whole story” meter is off the charts on this one…
If he [or perhaps more specifically his university] spends $400k on travel on AWE every year – guess what? He has a better contact at USAir than ‘Customer Relations.’ If he spoke to that person about what had happened I would think he would have received a different response – so – until there is a better explanation of that $400k – I say BS to his side of the tale.
and once in a while – I wish someone would tell those threatening him with arrest to just go ahead, arrest me – lets put this silliness to bed once and for all – we need a court of competent jurisdiction to put some on what authority a flight attendant and captain have on what constitutes interference and when.
So he’s in an exit row and argues about putting up his bag? I don’t care how small it is, it shouldn’t be sitting in a seat, even in a non-exit row. The rule about bags applies to all rows – no matter the size. If the bag was that small put it in the seatback/magazine holder.
Do I think the flight attendant overreacted? Most likely. But I have a feeling this guy acted like a total jerk and didn’t help his own case.
This situation(US Air kicking off a customer posted on Sept 23) is another example of why there needs to be a passenger bill of rights. I’ll stay away from the time limit agrument for now.
This clearly shows a FA abusing the police power given to them by the FAA (one condition here is that Micheal is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth which may or may not be true).
In addition, recent events demonstrate that a flight crew can hold you against your will without the basic necessities and that’s ok (another business does it and it’s kidnapping). If you protest, you go to jail.
More and more it appears that airlines have decided to abuse the powers given to them. We need a passenger bill of rights that guarantees a safe and inhabitable environment will all the basic necessities of life (food, water, HVAC, sleeping arrangements & sanitary facilities) without charge anytime the door to the aircraft has been closed for an amount of time (5 hours to accommodate transcontinental flights for food. I’d say the rest immediately.). At that point, the airline can sit on the tarmac for hours but they may end up supplying you with dinner etc and are required to maintain a safe environment. As part of the clean / safe environment, the DOT needs to establish a review board for abusive crew members (I figure that the police have citizen review boards and the FAA has granted police powers to crew members so why not).
A bill of rights doesn’t have to mean a flight has to turn back. When I read the majority of stories of passengers held hostage by the airlines, the complaints are rarely just “I was held on board.” It’s almost always “I was held on board for 8 hours and the toilet quit working after 2 hours” or “They ran out of water after 3 hours etc.”
I agree with you. A simple you must turn back after x hours isn’t workable in the real world. Mandating that airlines are responsible for your well being while on board does. Requiring them to provide potable water, HVAC and sanitary facilities as soon as the door is closed seems reasonable. Requiring them to provide food 5 hours after the door is closed (without charge) is hard to argue. Requiring them to provide sleeping arrangements like blankets and pillows after 10 PM for delayed flights also seems reasonable. Providing a review board for crew member’s actions when they use their police powers (detaining a passenger, threatening them with arrest or forcibly removing them from a flight for example) seems reasonable since most police departments have this. Fines for violations of the bill need to be large (100k+) and go to the effected passengers (with a lawsuit waiver clause) not the FAA or DOT.
Ultimately, Congress has given the airlines all of the power and they have shown that they will abuse it regularly. There needs to be a balance restored to the relationship.
We’d like to offer our thoughts of these events. Bear in mind we have no information on it beyong what you wrote, as we have no relationship with USAirways whatsoever.
We’re not sure about your attribution of Mr. Winn’s use of the word “steward” as someone who flew a lot before deregulation, although it certainly does indicate a certain mindset on his part, as any flight attendant would be annoyed if he used the term and might choose to correct him. It seems indicative of his attitude.
Putting items on a seat is usually stopped by all flight attendants, as is holding a bag on your lap. Which you seem to agree is part of what you shouldn’t do.
As for the response from USAirways, their position is correct. They stood behind their employees, who made a decision about a disruptive passenger. However, they did not phrase this correctly, nor provide good service.
For one, they chose not to enlighten him as to how it was seen by the other side. That would have been a thorny piece of writing, but some elaboration on the matter written the right way would have either soothed him, or outraged him further.
Saying they uphold that decision makes them sound too much like a Court pronouncing judgment. To be a bit academic on it, they should have said, “We support the right of our captains to make this decision. However, we are understand that you see the situation differently, and value your business…” This does not lay blame squarely at the feet of Mr. Winn, accepts the difference of opinion, but reframes the issue.
US Airways could have also advise that the crew involved did review the incident with some form of manager or trainer to see if there was a better way it could have been handled. The “we’re always trying to improve our processes” line works.
This, of course, all assumes sincere desire on the part of the airline to take care of its customers. Too often, these conflicts turn into an US vs THEM mentality, and any company, airline or not, has to take steps to avoid that.
Finally, although it may have appeared in his letter, What does Mr. Winn want from them? All complaint letters should have a defined suggested resolution that the writer thinks is something the airline might actually give them. Is he demanding a refund? An apology? Would he be satisfied with the retraining we mentioned above? The tone in the excerpts may indicate nothing will satisfy him, which may be why they didn’t bother to try(not that they shouldn’t).
I am also getting a ‘not the whole story…’ reading off this one, and far be it from me to defend US Airways, which I loathe.
The flight attendant asked the passenger to move their bag which is an exit row obstruction… the passenger declines… the attendant offers to help to stow it… the passenger again declines. This is odd behaviour and whilst being escorted off the flight is overkill, the passenger was being difficult. No personal items can be flying around an exit row, and having one wrapped around the wrist could prevent the passenger from opening the exit door, which is the responsibility that comes with the leg room perk.
Sounds to me like the FA was being officious, but the passenger was being deliberately difficult. If the wallet is that important, put it in your pocket and put the bag overhead.
I suspect there is more to both sides of this story.
Whether the OP felt his bag was ’small enough’ is not relevant, fact is the crew member asked for it to be moved and that is enough reason to move it. It was not an unreasonable request in an exit row.
I am just speculating here, but the response of ‘I will move it when the passenger gets here’ has prompted the FA to ask for its immediate removal as it really shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
Tone of voice goes a long way- from passengers as well as the crew. I have frequently been abused for making simple requests like these, and situations where passengers are deplaned to the authorities are rarely as simple as the OP makes out. I think there is more to this than is being said.
Yeah, my “rest of the story” gauge is blinking, too. Someone who has flown as much as Mr. Winn says he has should have known your seat must be upright for takeoff. I’m no veteran flyer, but I know that much. Also, exit row seat: I didn’t think those reclined at all, or is it just part of the way back?
Either way, I think there’s a great deal more to be learned on both sides of this story. I’ve worked at a newspaper for 17 years, and the one, overarching thing I have learned is that there is *never* just one side of the story. Someone on the other side almost always has a story just as compelling. There’s way more here than Mr. Winn is telling.
I can’t see anything in what is written to support the headline’s contention that the reason this man was kicked off the flight had anything to do with the eyemask.
Sounds like the OP was tired and out of sorts. He exercised very poor judgment. The bag should have immediately gone under his seat. The eyeshades could have been put asisde as well or he could have asked if ok to use them until the door closed.
Threats to take his money elsewhere are not useful. If Charlotte is an important hub for him, there are few choices.
Instead, he should escalate his complaint stressing his discomfort and asking that the action of the crew be examined more closely. Perhaps a bit of sensitivity training for the FA would be in order. If he wants, he could ask for compensation for his inconvenience by way of a voucher, miles or an upgrade certificate.
Just curious – if the OP now only flies Unuited Code share flights on United ticket stock, does the revenue generated from his buness now inure to United? Or US Air?
From a safety point of view, putting on eyeshades in an exit row seat before take off is dangerous. Imagine if the passenger falls asleep by accident and somehow the emergency exit is needed to evacuate the passengers on the plane, the sleeping passenger is now not only unable to assist the crew, but causes and obstacle and delay for the evacuation for the other passengers. Exit row seats may come with more legrooms or other perks, but the passengers sitting there should also be aware of their responsibilities in the event of an emergency.
I’m stunned by those on this website that are blaming Mr. Winn. This sounds like a steward (I use that term too) who was a) uncourteous and b) unable to effectively handle the authority he has been given. My travels with US Airways have rarely been positive experiences.
I agree with those who would suggest writing back to US Airways emphasizing why they are losing, not only your business, but your university’s business.
I have to agree with Kathyj – where in this article does the eye mask have anything at all to do with his being kicked off? Many of the commenters in here seem to have picked up on the real issue: the small bag in the center seat. It’s pretty obvious that it was his lack of cooperation about that bag that led to the FA identifying him as a non-compliant, disruptive passenger.
Like so many others in here, I am reluctant to side with the airline on this – I’ve had my own issues with US Airways. And I’ve seen for myself that they can be awfully trigger-happy in ejecting people: I was on a US Airways flight once that was delayed repeatedly, and they kept loading and unloading us…finally one guy got a bit peeved and said a “bad word” to the gate agent. When we were finally ready to depart, they held the plane up for another 30 minutes so they could get the foul-mouthed dude hauled off the plane by the cops…for the f-bomb he’d dropped over an hour ago!
But we have to remember that there are always three sides to the story: yours, theirs, and the truth. If the truth is anywhere closer the middle from what Mr. Winn describes, then US Airways was probably right in removing him from the flight. I certainly don’t want some belligerent, uncooperative, holier-than-thou a-hole in the emergency exit row.
Note to all passengers: if an FA asks you to do something that isn’t a huge imposition on you (like moving a bag!), for pete’s sake, just do it. Sure, some of them might be enjoying their little power trip, but really, how hard would it be to just be cooperative? It might keep you on that plane – and save the rest of us from delays when they send the airport cops on the plane to eject you.
First off, it seems fault lays on both sides. It seems Us Airways over reacted and escalated a situation into something beyond reason. Second, it seems this gentlemen was tired and possibly combative. Therefore, I think it’s probably a 50/50 split on blame. Now should he have been removed and threatened? No, not unless he was VERBALLY abusive or disruptive. Was he acting agitated and berating the flight attendant? I wasn’t there so I or none of us can say. Let’s assume his WORST offense was refusing to stow a bag before the plane was even ready to depart. Then, U.S. Airways is now the MAJORITY of blame.
So what are his options? 1) Go to the Press. 2) Take his business elsewhere. If this gentlemen REALLY SPENDS 400,000 a year, I would Cc a copy of my expenses to the CEO detailing the problem and a resolution in which to rectify the situation. I would also offer a time line for it to be done. If I do not hear back within 2 weeks, I will assume this matter is not being taken seriously. I would also let them know that you will direct other corporate accounts to other providers and that your 400,000 loss will be compounded.
So let’s assume this airline is the only choice. Anyone who spends 400,000 can shell out a bit more to hire a commuter plane. I am sure there are MANY PILOTS out there who would gladly work out a deal with this gentlemen for THAT kind of money. He might even be able to save if him and colleagues travel together. Plan B would be to drive to another airport where U.S. Airways is NOT the only choice.
It all depends on what he wants to do really.
Ok – the ‘exit row’ obstruction was in an airplane AT THE GATE.
Folks – this guy NEVER LEFT THE GATE. The Flight was AT THE GATE with the forward cabin door OPEN when this all occured.
Guru and everyone else needs to read this again. How are police going to come and get him on a flight in mid-air?
The facts as I see them are:
1 – guy sits down. Puts on eye mask.
2 – F/A comes along and asks him to take it off and prepare for departure;
3 – Captain then comes on and says ‘we have a mechanical delay;’
4- guy puts his mask back on and reclines again;
5- there is a discussion with the aisle seat pax about moving his friend to the middle seat;
6 – F/A states: ‘after take off;’
7 – OP decides that no one is coming any time soon to the seat since a – there is a mechanical delay and b – what the F/A just said;
8 – F/A tells him to move his bag- HE DOES – putting a small bag akin to a purse in his lap – declining the offer of the F/A to move it;
9 – airplane – STILL on the ground, still with a mechanical delay;
10 – F/A gets all pissy –
Now – was the F/A aware of the mechanical delay? Probably not – seems like the most legitimate explanation of what happened – it does explain everything.
Next – our OP should have asked the ’steward.’ “ok, we have a mechanical delay – did you hear the announcement? As soon as the front door is closed I’ll put my seat back up and remove my eye shades. Fair enough?”
If the ‘request’ of the F/A to put the bag in the overhead was really a demand – then you F/A’s out there need to use appropriate language. If you are asking someone to do something that is not mandated then you need to be prepared for a no answer.
If the ‘request’ is for a mandatory item, then I URGE you to use appropriate language as in ‘Sir, I am required to maintain clear aisles in the exit row, please give me that bag to put in the overhead compartment.” Then NO ONE is confused about what you are asking and you do not need to get your panties in a bunch over a passenger refusing your ‘order’ which you phrased as a request.
And to everyone – please read and understand the facts presented by the person before you run off half-cocked with your admonitions about exit rows and all that. . .
Did anyone pay attention to the part that indicated the flight was DELAYED and take off was not imminent? The man was tired; he wanted to rest until the plane was going to take off. He removed the offending book-sized bag from the empty seat and put it on his lap, reclined his seat, put on his eye mask, and tried to rest. The arrogant flight attendant (should I capitalize those word for anyone?) felt dissed and retaliated by abusively using his powers in a seemingly unwarranted way.
I have been on planes sitting on the tarmac and feel I should be comfortable while THE AIRLINE WASTES MY TIME because for some reason they didn’t figure out there was a problem before they loaded the passengers in the flying bus (actually, I have been on motor coaches that are much more comfortable than planes!). Like everyone, I do believe it is better to err on the side of caution and not try to fly a plane that might be broken. So, go ahead and fix the problem before taking off. But, use common sense and let me be comfortable with the seat reclined and the food tray down while you are fixing something.
Perhaps there is more to this story, or perhaps the steward (a term often used on ships and which is not at all derogatory) was really a jerk. If flight attendants want customers to behave more civilly, then airline employees and the airlines themselves ought to start behaving more cordially–as if they actually want people to fly on their airline. I become surly after being abused for hours, which–alas–seems to be the majority of travel experiences involving airport.
@ JOE
If the ‘request’ of the F/A to put the bag in the overhead was really a demand – then you F/A’s out there need to use appropriate language
Would that be like the THREE TIMES I’ve asked a passenger to: “Please turn off your electronic device?”
> Strangely, the steward pointed his finger at me, with thumb raised
> up in the air as if it were a pistol, and said, “It looks like you and I
> are in for a conflict.” Then he walked away. I dismissed it as odd
> behavior, or maybe a poor attempt at humor.
I don’t see anyone addressing that little tidbit. Could you imagine what might happen to a PASSENGER pointing their finger in the air and thumb raised as if it were a pistol at a CREW? You’d be tazed by the Air Marshal quicker than you can say Osama bin Laden!
If you sit in an exit row, you have certain responsibilities and obligations that other passengers don’t have. If this man was so disturbed that he could not put his bag wherever he wanted and wear his face mask whenever he wanted, he should have simply asked to be moved to a non-exit row seat. I agree with those who posit that there is way more to this story…You don’t get kicked off a flight unless you act like a real jerk. I don’t buy the “I was doing nothing wrong and the big bad flight attendant had a vendetta on me” excuse.
USAir is probably thinking Godspeed to the poor airline that inherits this jerk’s business.
shut up, sit down, and act like an adult.
@Joe: Yes, looking at the facts of the case would be helpful. Unfortunately, we don’t have any facts here. All we have is the story as told by Winn in his words. And, even in his own words, it’s pretty easy to side with the airline. I’d imagine if we heard US Air’s version of the story it would be even easier. Quite frankly, I’m glad this guy got deplaned. If someone in an exit row was acting belligerent and refusing to move a bag after repeated requests, s/he should be deplaned.
As someone who flies frequently, it sounds to me like Mr. Winn is the kind of frequent-flier who feels entitled and treats flight attendants as bothersome servers.
First, it takes a special kind of d-bag to put on an eye mask and recline the seat before take-off (regardless of fatigue and delay) when he should know full well that it is important — nay required — that he make eye contact and verbally acknowledge his responsibility as a passenger in an exit row.
I’ve seen my fair share of rude flight attendants, but I’m inclined to side with the airline on this one. There’s nothing I hate more than frequent fliers who feel as if the fact that they travel more than those around them gives them the right to disregard the safety protocols and comfort (I have no doubt this guy fully reclined his chair right into the lap of the poor person behind him) of their fellow passengers.
… I’m with Lisa S – which I guess saves me 10 minutes of my lunch break!
I’ve flown regularly for 10 years both in Europe, Canada and the US. I find in North America the attendants can just get plain stupid with the rules, often bending them because they are in a bad mood. I avoid Air Canada for this and other reasons.
US Airways is one of the airlines that is very inconsistent. Continental Airline are on the other hand in my experience extremely reasonable.
FAA regulations leave a lot of rules upto the discretion of the individual airline attendant. I think they should be clearer. Maybe a USA Passengers charter creates a legal expectation of the airlines.
I’m amazed the shear choice of point to point flights available from tiny airlines in Europe. Surely there is a market in the US – I suspect the major airlines have too much power with the airports.
LOL, US AirWays SUX! Boycott them NOW and put them out of business!
RT
http://www.online-privacy.us.tc
And people wonder why we Europeans don’t like to travel to the USA.
When are people going to start to realize and reject/object against these ‘fear’ tactics? The anti terrorist measures at airplanes are not to prevent (and they simply can’t) terror, it’s a means to be in control.
You can travel with a suitcase full of batteries and wires and equipment for radio shows and what not, they don’t even look twice. But as soon as you have toothpaste, “step aside sir”.
Ever since 9-11 it seems that our Federal bureaucracy has been given a green light to treat ALL American citizens with suspicion and like every single last one of us is a potential terrorist.
I felt totally brutalized and humiliated after an encounter with a pimply-faced kid wearing a TSA Uniform. Sorry, but his arrogant and excessively officious attitude really conjured up images of “Your papers please”, spoken imperiously with a heavy German accent.
We are not the free people we were just 10 years ago. Our own leaders have used a vicious attack against several thousand JUST LIKE THE REST OF US, to justify savaging our American liberties, rights not to be persecuted and dogged by damned civil servants, and to be treated as though WE THE PEOPLE, are the rightful masters of our nation.
No matter what the untold parts of this story may be, I will always be skeptical of the “Establishment” version, or in this case the corporate version.
Putting people in arbitrary positions of power over others, creates a breeding ground for petty tyrannies, for selective, personality-based bullying and harassment, as I feel I was made to suffer such in 2003 at Ohare International. While this was going on, I kept telling myself, “This is just a bad George Orwell-inspired dream. This isn’t really my America!”
Now in today’s paper, more stories on Congress discussing the renewal of The Patriot Act! When a government moves to remove a people’s rights to be protected against the excesses of that same government, THEY NEVER GIVE THOSE RIGHTS BACK, AT LEAST NOT WITHOUT A FIGHT.
That is the sad lesson of history that our founding fathers were only too aware of, which is why they tried to give us a strong, inviolable Constitution, to give us all some Bullshit protection. Too bad, the neo-authoritarian figures WE elected, have seen fit to trash the supreme law of the land.
I completely agree that he should write them another letter. It does not seem that they really understand exactly what happened to him. They no longer deserve his business.
A flight attendent’s safety responsibilities do not start when the flight is in the air. It starts as the first passenger boards the plane. Although the flight was still on the ground, a fire could still break out on board, requiring the plane to be evacuated.
There is a reason bags are to be put away, it may become an obstruction when an evacuation is called for. We all know how little space there is between seats. Have you tried getting out when someone has the seat reclined all the way? It’s not an easy thing to do, and not end up in someone’s face. This person’s small bag may be important to him at that moment, but I can easily see it being thrown on the floor during an emergency. It would then become a tripping hazard in the emergency exit row.
If you fly different airlines, you’ll notice there is a standard set of safety rules among all the carriers. There is a reason for them. They are best practices learned after decades of travel and plane crash investigations.
@john – well said
One would think that a University president would acting at the pinnacle of professionalism and integrity, for our bastions of Higher-Ed produce only the most mature, competent and educated citizens, who will lead this Country and the World to a brighter future! – NOT!
Sounds like this arrogant jerk is a bit of proof why colleges cost more each year and produce less competent grads; why does he need to spend all that time and money? Doesn’t his University have teleconference facilities?
I see no sympathy, and if I was a FA there would be no eyeshades at all in an exit row, using my professional judgment. And if I was a passenger, I would have reported him ASAP – I don’t want any fatigued and pompous looser taking his time to pop that window while my hair is burning!
I applaud the flight attendant on this one. Well done USAirways!!!
I had a problem with US Airways regarding a racist comment by a flight attendant on a Hartford to Philadelphia flight. Usually I’m comfortable anywhere but this time the window row had 3 seats and the person next to me was pretty big and encroaching on my space which forced me to practically be on my wife’s seat. Since it was a small plane with the rows bunched together, this was pretty uncomfortable. I asked the flight attendant if my wife and I could sit on the exit row before the flight started. I asked this in English, although I do have an accent, and at the moment I was reading a book in English pertaining to a MBA class I was taking. She replied back that in order to sit on the exit row I needed to know how to read and speak English and just left. We were just left like that and she never came back. Once we got to Philadelphia we filed a complaint and when we got back to from our vacation I e-mailed the CEO, director of marketing, COO, etc. I got a quick reply to the latter and got two $300 vouchers. On top of that we got two $250 vouchers from the complaint filed in Philly. At least I got lucky I got some kind of compensation since the flight attendants are like cops, they do something wrong and then they huddle together and deny any wrongdoing. When asked by their superiors, they all said they didn’t say such a thing.
A little research finds that experienced frequent flier Winn is “president of a private university” (Healing Tao University), and should have relied upon his inner chi to handle this situation a wee bit better. His website makes him sound as if he’s always in a space of calm and tranquility, and his mission in life is to help others get there, too.
My assumption is that the two main participants both had short fuses on this day. As travelers, we all now experience the hassle of our post-9/11 world. Just imagine that airline employees (and I was one for many years), have to deal with stuff like this every work day. I’m certainly not defending the F/A’s handling of this, but both of these guys were in the wrong.
Please. You’re in an exit row, you’re supposed to be a frequent flyer, shut your mouth and do as you’re instructed. Any frequent flyer will tell you to not only follow the rules but anticipate them. Be ready to fly at all times, keep your crap off the seat, off your lap, not hanging out of the seat-back pocket, tray table up, etc., if you’re told to do something just shut your mouth and do it no matter how lame the attendant is. You WILL always loose. Sure you might win an argument with at the re-ticketing counter but for all your complaining you WILL miss your flight.
So from this frequent traveler until you hear that “ding” over the intercom that all is well after take off do as you are told and you might just be there to hear it!
No mention of the eye cover having anything to do w this story. I dont agree with the stewards lame pistol comment either. He might get a skymall magazine in the eye with a comment a like that! seriously tho, more than likely the steward blew it out of proportion because his ego was hurt and I imagine the passenger was more than likely rude, but nonetheless not a reason to be removed from a plane..I may shat on the floor upon departure if that happened to me.
Floris…shutup
@Dan Parker – that’s the thing. They aren’t always clear, and it’s mainly a judgment call that could be right or wrong.
Whether it’s right or wrong, though, depends what side one is on. Unfortunately as the various comments here indicate, this one isn’t necessarily crystal.
If what Boomerian commented is the person in question:
http://www healingtaousa dot com/winn underscore iswho dot html
Then it’s rather ironic how Mr. Winn reacted to his. OTOH, we’re all human.
@Frank – no – because that is not a request.
Words mean things – I just would appreciate if F/A’s would use action words when they want action and demand words when they want compliance – instead of asking ‘would you please turn off the ipod?’ instead of ‘Sir, you are required to turn that off now.’ And you are changing the subject- lets stick with the quotes and facts at hand.
you want to be polite – but being polite does not generate a sufficient demand to enforce your legitimate use of authority. Honestly, I’d ask nicely once – the next time I say: “Sir, I asked you to turn that off once already. If I come down here again and see those ear phones on your head, you’ll be explaining your conduct to the FBI, do we understand each other? – Thank you.”
As for the OP conduct reclining his seat on the ground and acting like a pompous ass – well – thats his prerogative.
I’ll go out on a limb here and assume that the F/A was unaware of the delay. As for evacuating the aircraft – having a window seat reclined is not gonna slow anyone down even a 1/1000th of second getting out. . ..
I can imagine the passenger was probably being a prick but in the interest of getting the plane off the ground and getting the job done the “steward” could have just had some patience.
I notice a lot of people in the service industry just are not cut out for it. They were probably forced in due to a layoff where they were making more money and did not deal with people much.
Oh and now we HAVE TO use the term flight attendant. Politically correct B/S. That (kind of like to whole tip system developed by the hotel and restaurant industry) is just something the carriers invented to make the employees feel important since they pay them shitty.
@Joe Farrell
Hear, hear.
How did any of this actually warrant getting thrown off of the aircraft? If the small purselike object was really as small as purported, I would have likely held onto it too, at least untill it was clear the plane was going to move. This all comes back to a “little power in the hands of little people”…
I say take this to The Consumerist. Flight attendants are there to SERVE the people on the plane, not to point accusatory fingers because what you want to do is within the rules, but not what they want you to do.