Recent news that Hertz would begin photographing its cars before they’re rented got me wondering: What about the “ding” scams that have made the car rental industry millions of dollars over the last few years?
You know, the one where you rent a car, return it completely undamaged, and a representative points to a tiny ding or scratch on the roof or the underbelly, where you couldn’t have possibly known to check for pre-existing damage.
Is this the end?
People like Nancy Westcott must be wondering. She recently rented a car from Enterprise, where she said no representative bothered to walk around the vehicle and check for damage. They didn’t miss the inspection on the return.
I was settling my bill when a representative came up and said I had damaged the car. I was speechless since there was no way the car had been damaged while in my possession.
Westcott spoke with a supervisor, who gave her the bad news.
She said she had no way of knowing if I was telling her the truth. She said she would have to write it up as damage which occurred while the car was in my possession. She kept me waiting for well over an hour. She did not return my paper work (lease agreement) which I had initialed and signed under duress and I was so upset I failed to request that she give it back.
Her total bill came to $775. There’s just one problem: Westcott kept her rental car parked in her driveway almost the entire time, and says she closely monitored the vehicle.
Had the car been photographed pre-rental — or at the very least checked by an Enterprise representative — this could have been avoided.
Reader Edward Stone, who rented a car from Avis in Seattle, shares a similar experience.
I noted no damages when I rented the car. Upon return to Seattle, the Avis agent cited an inconsequential blemish (about the size of a dime) on the rear bumper which I had not even noticed at the time of rental. They insisted on filling out a form on which I noted that I was unaware of any damage to the car.
Earlier this week I received a packet from Avis asking for over $460 in repairs. I carry rental car insurance both through my own personal insurance and also through my platinum credit cards so I called Visa to bring them into the loop.
Here’s where it gets interesting. His credit card company told him this was a scam.
· Visa requires a claim be filed within 45 days of the “incident”; I received their charge on the 45th day after the return of the car. If I had not been diligent in calling Visa immediately, the claim would have been outside their window. That is apparently standard operating procedures for the scam.
· Most private auto insurance, mine included, has a $500 deductible for this type of claim — the total charges alleged by Avis was $460 — an effort to keep the insurance companies out of the discussion.
· The photos provided showed no evident damage to the vehicle so now we have a “he said, she said” situation in which most renters would lose because the value of the time required to protest is greater than the cost to settle.
Stone, who is retired and says he has “the time and determination to fight this claim” is not letting Avis get away with this. I contacted Enterprise on Westcott’s behalf, and it dropped its claim against her.
I think no one has a problem paying for damage to a rental car — particularly if they have the “before” and “after” photographic evidence.
But the “ding” scam has gone on long enough. Hopefully, this will end it.
(Photo: kfisto/Flickr Creative Commons)
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I wonder whether the rental agencies actually repair the dings they charge their customers for, or simply pocket the money. If it could be proven that the repair, which the customer was charged for, was never actually made, the rental agency could be charged with wire and/or mail fraud. In any case, is a rental agency legally required to provide a customer with a copy of the bill showing the repair was actually made? If they aren’t, they should be.
Seems like a perfect thing for the NY attorney general to look into.
Hertz has a new policy that I was informed of at both LAX and Orange County airport locations. Members of the loyalty program do NOT pay for minor damage such as dings and scrapes. Which really makes sense. I rent from Hertz often. If I were scammed out of $500 that would end my Hertz relationship. Why chance losing a good customer over the cost of three days rental.
Everytime I rent a car, I have to hunt down an agent to do the walkthrough and it never fails that I find a scratch or ding and the agent says “oh that’s not a big deal, you don’t have to write it down.” And then we go back and forth for a few minutes until the agent will sign my damage form. Meanwhile, you need to bring your own flashlight because it’s hard to see anything in the garages where I pick up cars most often.
I always go over the car with a fine-tooth comb, pointing out every ding, scratch and scuff to the rental agent. By the time I’m finished, the little image of the car on the paperwork is covered with scribbles, to the point that I could probably get broadsided by a bus and use the scribbles to prove that it’s existing damage! Do you think this is an effort by the rental car companies to frighten us into buying the collusion damage waiver?
I had the same experience with Enterprise. It is a common practice with them for telling you there was some damage to the car when you returned it.
If you think it’s bad in THIS country…imagine what it’s like when you’re in a foreign nation, and out of your element? Oh, and women traveling alone? You are a total target.
I’ve read too many horror stories of this type of thing happening, so I always take digital photos of the car while in the lot, before I take possession. One time this actually saved me: renting a car from Europcar in Rome. As so often happens, the agent was too busy to do a pre-inspection – so I did my own, and photographed it. When I dropped the car off, the agent found a decent sized scratch on the trunk, and began telling me that I was going to have to pay for the damage. I just laughed at him. He went inside and began working up some paperwork, while I dug out the camera chip that had my photos from my arrival. What do you know…I had a photo of that exact scratch, time and date stamped from when I picked up the car! I cannot tell you the satisfaction I felt when I waltzed into that office and handed my camera to the agent. He tried to argue and say that I must have photographed it after I took possession and scratched it. I demanded a manager, and calmly showed him the photos, which also included a shot of the odometer, with the exact mileage on the car at the time of pickup – taken mere seconds after the shot of the scratch. Watching their faces turn red, knowing they’d been stopped in their tracks in trying to defraud me, was pure pleasure. They had no choice but to let me go. Good guys: 1 Bad guys: 0.
Always use your cell phone to take pictures before leaving the car rental place. Our corporate contracts specify that we are not responsible for minor dents and scratches, so I don’t really worry too much, but you never know.
But on a funny note, I rented a car in Denver last year. I was given a Mustang. Bear in mind I am a middle-aged woman who is not quite as limber as I used to be.
The car was a disaster–scrapes, dings, etc. (So were all the other cars in the lot.) I took a jillion pictures and went back in to the car rental counter. The clerk just laughed and said “Oh we know. That’s why there’s a big X in the middle of the diagram. The roads and weather here make it impossible to keep the cars dent-free.”
Other than having to hurl myself out of the bucket seat once I drove to Deer Trail over potholes and mud, it was a fine rental.
While I certainly don’ trust rental agencies, and the ding scam is obviously real, it’s also hard to trust a customer who says, “I was speechless since there was no way the car had been damaged while in my possession.”
Really? Was she with the car every minute she had rented it? Is it not possible that the car was hit when she left it parked somewhere? Please. If I was a rental car agency and she said that to me, I’d be immediately mistrustful.
Over the past year, I’ve taken pictures of the car while the representative is standing with me. I always offer them the opportunity to be in the picture, but every one of them has turned me down. I also photograph any paperwork I get. When I return the car, I go through the same process, always in front of the rep. It certainly upsets them, but so far it’s saved me from the dent scam.
@Eric: In a word, no. Generally speaking, when you damage someone else’s property, you’re liable to that person or company for the amount it would cost to repair the property, but there’s no obligation on their part to actually do the repair. It’s as though someone hit your car on the street and dented your fender; they have to pay you what it would cost to fix the fender, but if you choose to pocket the money and put it towards something else, that’s your business.
What they CAN’T do is charge someone else for allegedly causing the damage. That’s the ongoing problem; a rental company either (a) collects on damages, but doesn’t fix the vehicle, (b) doesn’t notice the damage when a person rents it, but does when it’s returned, or (c) waives the damage for a “gold customer” but then later tries to pin the damage on a subsequent renter.
That said, I’ve never had such a problem with Hertz (and from what I read here on Chris’s site, they’re among the least likely companies to hit you with these fees).
First of all, I still contend that *minor* dings and scrapes (including so-called “hail damage” that’s only visible under certain lighting) should be considered “normal wear and tear” and not even be an issue.
But having said that, it absolutely should be the rental company’s responsibility to document the damage — with a clear photograph just before the rental compared to one just after. The technology is there to do this, so if they don’t they shouldn’t be allowed to claim the damage against the customer.
It still behooves the customer to take their own photos, but this way at least some of the “he said, she said” issues are removed.
In Mexico & many other countries it is standard procedure to go over the car & document all scratches & dents. I do this when I rent in the USA, also but it is very hard to get anyone to look at the car. I rented from enterprise at the Agusta GA. airport in March 2009 & when I asked the manager to look at the scratches on the car, he said this kind of damage is figured into the rental price. The renters know that when they sell the car they will have to fix these minor dents to bring the car up to par to sell it Almost everyone now a days has a camera in their cellphone, to be safe take pictures of the car before & after returning.
Kristina,
I concur. I have had similar experiences where they try to tell me it has to be over 3 inches in diameter before they note the damage. I say, that’s fine but I STILL WANT it noted. I am diligent. I WALK THROUGH the car with the agent and tell him all areas i want written down. I don’t trust their nonchalant attitudes at the time of rental. Why? I am sure to say they aren’t so “laid back” when you go and return the car. They go through it with a fine tooth comb trying to note everything. Lesson learned for those people above. Want to avoid being scammed? You have to think once in a while!
Justin Cohen
I drive the agents batty because I always take a flashlight when traveling and go over the car like Sherlock Holmes. Another I always check and note is the condition of the INSIDE of the car. If it’s dirty or stuff is broken I write it down. I also look for the spare tire, jack and handle to make sure it is there. Finally, I check that all the lights are working, the registration stickers are current and I check under the hood, as one time I got a car with no wiper fluid and another time a car with expired tags.
My experience with Enterprise: The renter has to find the damage and have them note it at time of pickup. They know where the preexisting damage is BEFORE they even come over to inspect at time of return. Simple as that. It’s as if they have training classes in how to scam their customers.
This is a very good idea, “I demanded a manager, and calmly showed him the photos, which also included a shot of the odometer, with the exact mileage on the car at the time of pickup –”
Taking a picture of the odometer to prove when the pictures were taken…the time and date stamp can be fudged by changing the date and time on the camera and taking another picture to “prove” that the scratch or dent was already there…taking a picture of the odometer is an entirely un-fudgable proof of the time the pictures were taken.
“He tried to argue and say that I must have photographed it after I took possession and scratched it. I demanded a manager, and calmly showed him the photos, which also included a shot of the odometer, with the exact mileage on the car at the time of pickup – taken mere seconds after the shot of the scratch.”
LeeAnne, that’s a great idea! I’ve always advised my friends and family to take photos of their rental cars, but never thought about snapping one of the odometer. My camera doesn’t include a date/time stamp (maybe I just don’t know how to turn it on!) so taking a picture of the odometer is a really smart idea. And perhaps one with that day’s newspaper on the hood with the rental office in the background.
I think it’s pretty sad that we have to resort to spy-level tactics just to keep car rental companies honest.
Like others, agents have tried to talk me out of going over the car, or insist that particular damage was insignificant. Ha! Look at the grey in my beard: I wasn’t born yesterday.
LeeAnne, that odometer idea is brilliant! I’m going to start doing that.
I always rent with full insurance to avoid the ding scam. Problem is renting in Europe where there is a high deductible. Hertz/Zurich got me once with the just-under-the-deductible scam for a “dirty car”. Applied a week later on my CC even though the car had been checked over on return and the bill issued with no remark. Crooks!
I now rent from Europcar. No problem so far!
Jane, about the date/time stamp – I’m no photographer, but I think most digital cameras do have a date/time stamp. The key is to get the date/time stamp to appear in the screen when you review photos. There’s a setting on my camera that causes the date/time stamp to flash on the screen superimposed over the photo for a moment, before disappearing.
I would agree that it was the odometer shot that sealed the deal, though…and the fact that the odometer shot came AFTER the shot of the scratch. NAILED! One less car-rental scam. :)
I’d say it’s time for a big class-action lawsuit.
In my experience, Enterprise has gotten sneakier about dings and scratches – among other things. I recently had to rent a car while mine was in the shop – despite the the car being marked no damage, there were numerous large scratches near the trunk – the agent told me, “Oh that’s typical for a rental here and I was definitely hustled while I was trying to inspect the car, not to mention they really tried to push all their additional policies. They also refused to honor the 10% discount the rep promised because I had to wait an hour for a car (and the clock started with the paperwork, not when I had a car).
I hate to say this but when you insist on having the rental agent accompany you for a walk around you’re costing them money as there are bonuses and commissions paid for upgrades and such. When you do that you cost them BIG money making opportunities.
I’m not certain but I think I’m in the Avis system. When I first started tre aveling I made myself a HUGE pain in the assets. insisting on a walk around and having the Rep sign off that their was no damage.
I think that they must have made note of it in my account as I’ve never been a vistim of that scam EVER and I’ve rented as many as 60 times per year so the law of averages is working against me.
The one time I actually did damage a car I told Budget I’d pay just as soon as I had a copy of the reciept from the repair facility. That went into the vapor and NOT on my credit report either.
Until people start wasting the counter reps time on long detailed inspections and dispute EVERY bill with damage on it. They will keep bludgeoning customers.
The odometer photograph is sheer brilliance.
Carrying a flashlight or insisting that the inspection be done in daylight is also sensible.
Does anyone know if these scams are a problem with things like ZipCar?
I always carry a flashlight with me to inspect the cars (since the lights are getting worse and worse in the parking garages and lots where the rental cars are) and I now carry a camera. I’ll have to remember the odometer shot, but I think the best way is to use movie mode, walk around the car then end with the odometer shot. Too many small dings and dents don’t show on my photographs.
I use AmEx Premium Car Rental Insurance and I’ve had to use their services twice on legitimate car damage. One was a damaged driver’s side door lock where someone used a screwdriver to access the car (and I use the car alarm fob all the time, so I never use the key in the door locks). The second was a smashed driver’s side window (nothing stolen, just the window damaged). I immediately filed a police report, reported the damage to the car rental agency (Alamo the first time and National the second), reported it to AmEx…. and both cases are still sitting in limbo because AmEx has not received any damage claims or repair tickets. The first incident was in 2005 and the second over 60 days ago.
What’s interesting is that the car rental agencies seem to be very good at hitting you for dings that they never fix, but they don’t seem to be very good at following up on legitimate damage.
We got a flat tire on our car rented from Alamo. We changed the tire and drove on the little spare back to the rental place. They told us there was no problem, and gave us a different car rather than repairing our flat. About a month later we got a bill for $224, saying that they had to purchase and install a new tire and that the tire had sidewall damage. Can they retroactively send us this bill even though at the time we returned the car the agent said there was “No problem?”
The beauty of refusing to pay, and then challenging the credit card charge, is that the car rental company will sue you. Well, at that point they need to prove their case – and you get to do discovery. Discovery includes all prior rental agreements and damage receipts for the vehicle – plus the identity of the last 5 renters. You get that information and it often has interesting information on it.
Like the fact they charged the last 10 renters $775 for the damage – or – that a prior renter noted the damage on the vehicle form.
I had client charged over $1000 for ‘repainting’ scratches after a rental.
The cc company accepted the charge back and the local edition hertz company sued us. We asked for all prior rental forms and noted that a renter, some 4 rentals earlier, noted the scratches on the vehicle that my client was being sued for. The amazing thing is that the Hertz licensee still wanted to ’settle’ for $200. Yes – we got attorneys fees for malicious prosecution – a rare event.
@Don – sure the tire had sidewall damages – thats why it failed – the question to be proven is WHEN it got sidewall damage! I had a bubble on the sidewall of a tire for 4 years and it only failed [literally] as I drove over a bump going into the tire dealer to put 4 new tires on – how about that for timing!
Alamo is the worst.
Recently they did not give me a “dent” form to fill out and sign, and despite years working in the travel industry I just spaced that step of the rental process and didn’t ask for one. I inspected the car upon return and found not even a scratch, noting it to the return employee. Within 12 hours of returning the car a collections agency was on the phone filing damages. Luckily it was an in-town rental, although my drivers license was still from a previous state after a recent move. I don’t think they expected me to show back up at the airport an hour later and find the employee who processed the car return. When pressed, he said that the damage was “under the bumper” where “no one would notice it.” When I asked to see the car they said it was out on rental. When they said I filled out the form I asked to see it, and after an hour of waiting they came up with a blank one that wasn’t signed. Then they offered to look at previous damage forms to see if it had been noted, but since the car had “come from another city” they didn’t have a history at that location. 24 hours later they miraculously found a previous claim of damage under the bumper and voided my damage claim.
I should have known better. A family member had to return two Alamo rented vans during a vacation – one broke down and stranded them in a dangerous part of town and the second had a flat tire before they got out of the parking lot. The third was so dinged up they couldn’t note it all on the form. After she returned home, rather than an apology for the bad expereince she got a damage claims form. When she challenged it, saying there was no way to know whether any damage on the van was “new,” the Alamo employee suggested that since she had insurance on a major credit card, that card would “just pay for it.” She decided a letter to the PR department was in order and her claim was miraculously dropped.
I’m taking a flashlight, looking UNDER the bumpers, and videoing the car from now on. So unbelievably sad that we can’t just trust basic transaction decency.
ALWAYS get an agent from the car rental company to inspect the car on return and ALWAYS have the company print out your final bill
http://youmustbefromaway.blogspot.com/2007/04/avis-scam.html
I just got back from a trip, and when I rented my car (from Budget), the agent that checks you out is at the mouth of the lot in a little booth, right before the row of ground spikes that pop your tires if you reverse. I had to ask for a damage form to note the two big scratches, and she just randomly scribbled Xs all over the picture of the car, saying “that should cover it” before seeing the damage. I had never seen that before! There were cars waiting to exit the garage and she was irritated that I insisted on her walking around the car with me anyway.
I worked for a rental car company for 8 years, and this kind of thing was, unfortunately, common. I have written a couple of articles that outline a) how to prevent this from happening and b) what to do if something like this happens to you. I hope that this is helpful to you and other readers:
How to prevent rental car damage claims:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5866562_prevent-rental-car-damage-claims.html
How to dispute rental car damage claims:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5866362_dispute-rental-car-damage-claims.html
Good luck.