Comments on: If you were an airline, you’d be paying $1 per gallon less for fuel http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/ The travel troubleshooter. Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:57:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Adam http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13694 Adam Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:48:51 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13694 Yeah I don't know where this information is coming from. I just accessed what one of the legacy carriers in the country is paying for jet fuel in one of its major hubs (usually where it is the cheapest because they buy more in the hubs). Today that carrier is paying $4.13 per gallon. Seeing that the gas near my house today is $3.59 per gallon....I don't see where this false information is coming from. Maybe one year ago this article would've been true. Also even the smaller regional jets are burning one gallon per minute per engine when the sit on the ground at idle. So even if they were paying less for fuel they sure use a lot more of it! Yeah I don’t know where this information is coming from. I just accessed what one of the legacy carriers in the country is paying for jet fuel in one of its major hubs (usually where it is the cheapest because they buy more in the hubs). Today that carrier is paying $4.13 per gallon. Seeing that the gas near my house today is $3.59 per gallon….I don’t see where this false information is coming from. Maybe one year ago this article would’ve been true. Also even the smaller regional jets are burning one gallon per minute per engine when the sit on the ground at idle. So even if they were paying less for fuel they sure use a lot more of it!

]]> By: Janet Elliott http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13665 Janet Elliott Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:17:58 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13665 Uhhh, where the heck did they get those fuel prices for airlines? I fly for a major airline and they print the price of fuel/gallon where we are on the flight release. I can tell you that the price for JetA has been ABOVE what I see at the pump for car gas for over a year. It's been up to $4.40/gal. in DEN. it used to be lower than automobile gas but in the last year, it's been more which is strange in itself. So, get off the thought that the airlines pay less. We pay more unless we are hedged, which we currently are not. Also, there are airlines out there, Frontier to name one, that is well run and is running very efficiently but fuel prices are killing them. They have good management and run a very transparent and clean organization. And yes, they treat their customers very well. So, don't categorically demonize all airlines. Uhhh, where the heck did they get those fuel prices for airlines? I fly for a major airline and they print the price of fuel/gallon where we are on the flight release. I can tell you that the price for JetA has been ABOVE what I see at the pump for car gas for over a year. It’s been up to $4.40/gal. in DEN.

it used to be lower than automobile gas but in the last year, it’s been more which is strange in itself. So, get off the thought that the airlines pay less. We pay more unless we are hedged, which we currently are not.

Also, there are airlines out there, Frontier to name one, that is well run and is running very efficiently but fuel prices are killing them. They have good management and run a very transparent and clean organization. And yes, they treat their customers very well. So, don’t categorically demonize all airlines.

]]> By: Robert Yeager http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13490 Robert Yeager Thu, 17 Jul 2008 01:20:17 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13490 I always get a kick out of the comments about European gas prices. I may be mistaken but I believe they drive less and use mass transportation more....because it is there. The US has let its mass transit fall way behind the need. I also believe that the vehicles purchased in Europe has less emissions controls then US. Very few people buy gas guzzlers either. They also have bigger taxes. I always get a kick out of the comments about European gas prices. I may be mistaken but I believe they drive less and use mass transportation more….because it is there. The US has let its mass transit fall way behind the need.

I also believe that the vehicles purchased in Europe has less emissions controls then US. Very few people buy gas guzzlers either. They also have bigger taxes.

]]> By: robert b. http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13478 robert b. Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:39:58 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13478 In all fairness Jetfuel 'A' is basically Kerosene, which requires less refinement and therefore is cheaper. In regards to the cost of fuel additionally airlines buy lagre 'contracts' of fuel therby acheving econimies of scale. You and I can do the same, by purchasing unleaded gas futures on the commodites futures market. If you exersize your contract the you get the commodity. It's just that you then have to arrange delivery and storage. Not so simple, but you can get it at a discount to the pump price! The real problem for airlines is that to a large extent their fleet is ageing and inefficent (compared to the newest generation of aircraft). However, with a shrinking profit base and rising overhead coupled with a banking system perilously close to collapse there is little else for them to do but whine, like a jet engine. In all fairness Jetfuel ‘A’ is basically Kerosene, which requires less refinement and therefore is cheaper. In regards to the cost of fuel additionally airlines buy lagre ‘contracts’ of fuel therby acheving econimies of scale. You and I can do the same, by purchasing unleaded gas futures on the commodites futures market.
If you exersize your contract the you get the commodity. It’s just that you then have to arrange delivery and storage. Not so simple, but you can get it at a discount to the pump price!
The real problem for airlines is that to a large extent their fleet is ageing and inefficent (compared to the newest generation of aircraft). However, with a shrinking profit base and rising overhead coupled with a banking system perilously close to collapse there is little else for them to do but whine, like a jet engine.

]]> By: CJ http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13460 CJ Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:37:58 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13460 Just a question rather than a comment. Can anyone calculate (taking into account the current cost of jet fuel and the unbundled services- baggage etc.) what an airline ticket from, say, JFK to SFO would be if it were priced to actually make a fair profit for the airline? No yield management involved, just by the ticket and go. I've been on busses and trains and never ran into 5 passengers who paid 5 different prices just to keep the vehicle full. Just a question rather than a comment. Can anyone calculate (taking into account the current cost of jet fuel and the unbundled services- baggage etc.) what an airline ticket from, say, JFK to SFO would be if it were priced to actually make a fair profit for the airline? No yield management involved, just by the ticket and go.

I’ve been on busses and trains and never ran into 5 passengers who paid 5 different prices just to keep the vehicle full.

]]> By: Sebastian Okser http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13451 Sebastian Okser Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:56:59 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13451 I think a lot of people have lost sight of the real issue that is facing the passengers. I don't think people are complaining that all airlines may have to raise ticket costs because of increased fuel prices. The problem is arising that we aren't being charged correctly. We are being "hit up" for much more than the fuel actually costs. We can show proof that the airlines have deeper concerns than the cost of fuel because there are numerous airlines in the world who charge less and make larger profits than companies like America, United and U.S Airways. If a major U.S airline wants to charge me for baggage, food, water, ticketing, breathing their air or anything else then I'll accept the charges. I recently moved from New York to Europe and I'm very used to airlines charging for anything that's not bolted down, but I expect dirt cheap fares when you do that. In short...if you are going to give me budget airline (no frills) service then charge me a budget airlines price. Yes, gas has gone up. Yes, all airfares will rise. But no, these fees being levied on us are not a direct result. They are rather stemming from the mismanagement of the airlines. I think a lot of people have lost sight of the real issue that is facing the passengers. I don’t think people are complaining that all airlines may have to raise ticket costs because of increased fuel prices. The problem is arising that we aren’t being charged correctly. We are being “hit up” for much more than the fuel actually costs.

We can show proof that the airlines have deeper concerns than the cost of fuel because there are numerous airlines in the world who charge less and make larger profits than companies like America, United and U.S Airways.

If a major U.S airline wants to charge me for baggage, food, water, ticketing, breathing their air or anything else then I’ll accept the charges. I recently moved from New York to Europe and I’m very used to airlines charging for anything that’s not bolted down, but I expect dirt cheap fares when you do that.

In short…if you are going to give me budget airline (no frills) service then charge me a budget airlines price. Yes, gas has gone up. Yes, all airfares will rise. But no, these fees being levied on us are not a direct result. They are rather stemming from the mismanagement of the airlines.

]]> By: Geoff M http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13438 Geoff M Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:08:53 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13438 Let's look at this from another perspective. In South America gasoline is almost free....under $0.50 per gallon. It does not matter what costs are, we pay it....The airlines need to place a proper charge for flight, food, baggage, SERVICE, and timeliness. No bumping is necessary. Go back to 1970 when you had 3 fares: One way, 30 day Round trip to Saturday night excursion, and Family Plan (needs to be re-named for 2008). Airlines would not have to deal with 340 fares between Pittsburgh and SanFrancisco each with a different rule and refundability. The second choice is "this is the MSRP" pay it....use it or lose it. Would that just not be so simple. Let’s look at this from another perspective.

In South America gasoline is almost free….under $0.50 per gallon. It does not matter what costs are, we pay it….The airlines need to place a proper charge for flight, food, baggage, SERVICE, and timeliness. No bumping is necessary. Go back to 1970 when you had 3 fares: One way, 30 day Round trip to Saturday night excursion, and Family Plan (needs to be re-named for 2008). Airlines would not have to deal with 340 fares between Pittsburgh and SanFrancisco each with a different rule and refundability.

The second choice is “this is the MSRP” pay it….use it or lose it. Would that just not be so simple.

]]> By: Joshua Katt http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13423 Joshua Katt Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:14:51 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13423 You are comparing apples to oranges, like trying to compare a gallon of propane or natural gas to automotive fuel. Different weights, compositions and uses and how far you can actually get with it. Same with the comparisons to UK/Europe pricing. If taxes make up 50%+ of the retail price to support a public transportation infrastructure (or other uses), how do these compare? Its either a slow news day or Chris is not as intelligent as I once thought. I have a small plane sitting unused since my fuel is over $6.50 per gallon. And it used to take automotive fuel up until a few years ago before the 10% ethanol additive became mandatory. Talk about being screwed! You are comparing apples to oranges, like trying to compare a gallon of propane or natural gas to automotive fuel. Different weights, compositions and uses and how far you can actually get with it.

Same with the comparisons to UK/Europe pricing. If taxes make up 50%+ of the retail price to support a public transportation infrastructure (or other uses), how do these compare?

Its either a slow news day or Chris is not as intelligent as I once thought.

I have a small plane sitting unused since my fuel is over $6.50 per gallon. And it used to take automotive fuel up until a few years ago before the 10% ethanol additive became mandatory. Talk about being screwed!

]]> By: Chuck3rd http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13422 Chuck3rd Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:58:07 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13422 Do you really think that the higher airfares are not directly related to fuel prices? Seriously? If you ran a business that depended on oil- up to 70% of operating costs- you'd probably be inclined to raise your prices, too. This won't be long-winded...just think about this statement and then tell me that fuel costs are not that big of a deal to airlines: "If Southwest Airlines, the nations only major airline that turns a profit, did not have the luxury of having a fuel hedge program, they would have be in the red just like all of the other guys". ...and that's a fact. Do you really think that the higher airfares are not directly related to fuel prices? Seriously? If you ran a business that depended on oil- up to 70% of operating costs- you’d probably be inclined to raise your prices, too. This won’t be long-winded…just think about this statement and then tell me that fuel costs are not that big of a deal to airlines:

“If Southwest Airlines, the nations only major airline that turns a profit, did not have the luxury of having a fuel hedge program, they would have be in the red just like all of the other guys”.

…and that’s a fact.

]]> By: Sebastian Okser http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-you-were-an-airline-youd-be-paying-1-per-gallon-less-for-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-13399 Sebastian Okser Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:00:34 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5108#comment-13399 I'm a bit conflicted about these numbers because the IATA states there fuel prices and their most recent statistic on the price of fuel is $4.304 per gallon (granted this is the current price and not the price in May). http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/economics/fuel_monitor/index.htm I’m a bit conflicted about these numbers because the IATA states there fuel prices and their most recent statistic on the price of fuel is $4.304 per gallon (granted this is the current price and not the price in May). http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/economics/fuel_monitor/index.htm

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