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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;If these aren&#8217;t tickets then how did I get out here?&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/</link>
	<description>Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott&#039;s site.</description>
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		<title>By: Ronda</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-25835</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-25835</guid>
		<description>I think i disagree with most of the comments on here. I understand that in this case the &quot;middleman&quot; was completely obsolete. But personally I prefere to have a &quot;middleman&quot;, especially because they&#039;re job is to help book your trip and to be your advocate when things go wrong. It gives you peace of mind that if something goes wrong like double booking or overcharged or somethning, you have someone who will fix the problem so that your not dragging down your entire trip worrying about getting refunds and stuff. 
    That said, I really dont like online travel agency sites. Just based on that you have to jump through hoops to get the refund your owed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think i disagree with most of the comments on here. I understand that in this case the &#8220;middleman&#8221; was completely obsolete. But personally I prefere to have a &#8220;middleman&#8221;, especially because they&#8217;re job is to help book your trip and to be your advocate when things go wrong. It gives you peace of mind that if something goes wrong like double booking or overcharged or somethning, you have someone who will fix the problem so that your not dragging down your entire trip worrying about getting refunds and stuff.<br />
    That said, I really dont like online travel agency sites. Just based on that you have to jump through hoops to get the refund your owed.</p>
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		<title>By: surfzone</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-25505</link>
		<dc:creator>surfzone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-25505</guid>
		<description>It is nice to leave a comment in Flickr when you pick up somebody&#039;s photo there :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is nice to leave a comment in Flickr when you pick up somebody&#8217;s photo there :-D</p>
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		<title>By: Carver Farrow</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22678</link>
		<dc:creator>Carver Farrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22678</guid>
		<description>@John and David

Both of your scenarios make sense to me.  In both scenarios a ticket was actually purchased, even if the accounting was a little messed up.  Scott&#039;s scenario is where a ticket was never purchased.  That&#039;s what i am having trouble with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John and David</p>
<p>Both of your scenarios make sense to me.  In both scenarios a ticket was actually purchased, even if the accounting was a little messed up.  Scott&#8217;s scenario is where a ticket was never purchased.  That&#8217;s what i am having trouble with.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer (the other one)</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22665</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer (the other one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22665</guid>
		<description>&quot;A call to Orbitz or Delta might have helped clear this up while Pedersen was still in Morocco, eliminating the need to buy another airline ticket.&quot;

It might have... but it would have most likely ended up costing more than the ticket.  Anyone who doesn&#039;t believe me is welcome to check their network&#039;s roaming rates to the Middle East.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A call to Orbitz or Delta might have helped clear this up while Pedersen was still in Morocco, eliminating the need to buy another airline ticket.&#8221;</p>
<p>It might have&#8230; but it would have most likely ended up costing more than the ticket.  Anyone who doesn&#8217;t believe me is welcome to check their network&#8217;s roaming rates to the Middle East.</p>
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		<title>By: DN</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22656</link>
		<dc:creator>DN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22656</guid>
		<description>@Josh:  I think you were lucky; wasn&#039;t there an incident with US Air that Chris had to deal with a few months ago, where a similar thing happened and US Air refused to believe that the family had even taken the outbound flight?

I do use Expedia and Orbitz to book my flights, but I always go through car rental and hotel reservations directly because cancellation fees are typically waived when you go direct and give them more then 24-hours notice.  I&#039;ve had mixed success talking with Expedia personnel (it was much better when I was Expedia Plus and not talking with India) but have not had any problems with Orbitz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Josh:  I think you were lucky; wasn&#8217;t there an incident with US Air that Chris had to deal with a few months ago, where a similar thing happened and US Air refused to believe that the family had even taken the outbound flight?</p>
<p>I do use Expedia and Orbitz to book my flights, but I always go through car rental and hotel reservations directly because cancellation fees are typically waived when you go direct and give them more then 24-hours notice.  I&#8217;ve had mixed success talking with Expedia personnel (it was much better when I was Expedia Plus and not talking with India) but have not had any problems with Orbitz.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22649</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22649</guid>
		<description>@Carver

Not exactly the same, but I have had a UAL ticket agent check us in on invalid tickets (the price had dropped, so I&#039;d called the day before and they reissued the tix and sent a voucher, as normal).  On the outbound, the agent seemed to do a lot of extra typing, but checked us in -- as it turns out, on the old, refunded, tix.  On the return, they claimed we hadn&#039;t flown outbound and had cancelled the new return tix.  Luckily we had our boarding passes from the outbound and they reissued, but it did indicate that the first agent was able to override something (I suspect both the old and new tickets were linked to the reservation code, and she was pulling up the wrong one)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Carver</p>
<p>Not exactly the same, but I have had a UAL ticket agent check us in on invalid tickets (the price had dropped, so I&#8217;d called the day before and they reissued the tix and sent a voucher, as normal).  On the outbound, the agent seemed to do a lot of extra typing, but checked us in &#8212; as it turns out, on the old, refunded, tix.  On the return, they claimed we hadn&#8217;t flown outbound and had cancelled the new return tix.  Luckily we had our boarding passes from the outbound and they reissued, but it did indicate that the first agent was able to override something (I suspect both the old and new tickets were linked to the reservation code, and she was pulling up the wrong one)</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22644</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22644</guid>
		<description>I stopped booking through intermediaries (airplane and hotel) a while ago precisely because you&#039;re adding yet another bureaucratic layer to the mix.  When a problem arises, all parties start foisting any responsibility onto the other vendor, resulting in no one taking responsibility for ameliorating the situation.  The bottom line is the bottom line always.  What if Mr. Pederson wasn&#039;t able to pony up the $2100 to purchase another set of tickets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stopped booking through intermediaries (airplane and hotel) a while ago precisely because you&#8217;re adding yet another bureaucratic layer to the mix.  When a problem arises, all parties start foisting any responsibility onto the other vendor, resulting in no one taking responsibility for ameliorating the situation.  The bottom line is the bottom line always.  What if Mr. Pederson wasn&#8217;t able to pony up the $2100 to purchase another set of tickets?</p>
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		<title>By: David Z</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22637</link>
		<dc:creator>David Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22637</guid>
		<description>@Carver

I&#039;ve had cases where some people purchased a flight ticket with us, the airline hasn&#039;t billed them or taken the funds off their account immediately, yet they eventually took their flight and were &quot;officially&quot; charged later on. Given that many airlines have up to 8:59PM PST the day/night after the flight was booked to cancel without necessarily any fees, I&#039;d imagine that makes it easier for everyone not to charge yet until everything&#039;s so-called cleared or no last-minute cancellations occur.

That might be what Scott is referring to on maybe his last paragraph. Just speculating, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Carver</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had cases where some people purchased a flight ticket with us, the airline hasn&#8217;t billed them or taken the funds off their account immediately, yet they eventually took their flight and were &#8220;officially&#8221; charged later on. Given that many airlines have up to 8:59PM PST the day/night after the flight was booked to cancel without necessarily any fees, I&#8217;d imagine that makes it easier for everyone not to charge yet until everything&#8217;s so-called cleared or no last-minute cancellations occur.</p>
<p>That might be what Scott is referring to on maybe his last paragraph. Just speculating, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22634</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22634</guid>
		<description>An old school good ASTA travel agent would know to tell his clients that you should have your concierge or yourself re-confirm your return reservations at least 72 hours in advance. With code-share and different foriegn airlines, this is imperative. Now you are not under the gun if there is a screw up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An old school good ASTA travel agent would know to tell his clients that you should have your concierge or yourself re-confirm your return reservations at least 72 hours in advance. With code-share and different foriegn airlines, this is imperative. Now you are not under the gun if there is a screw up.</p>
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		<title>By: Carver</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22611</link>
		<dc:creator>Carver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22611</guid>
		<description>@Scott

Wait a minute. Are you suggesting that it is possible for an inexperienced agent to check someone in who doesn&#039;t actually have a ticket. I have to admit to being very skeptical about that.

In any event, I have to strongly disagree with Chris&#039; suggestion that booking through an intermediary is generally a good practice.  Common experiences suggest that the more pieces something has the easier it is to break. My experience is that booking directly with the travel provider provides the greatest chance of a successful trip.  Booking through intermediaries permits the various parties to play the blame game to the traveler&#039;s detriment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott</p>
<p>Wait a minute. Are you suggesting that it is possible for an inexperienced agent to check someone in who doesn&#8217;t actually have a ticket. I have to admit to being very skeptical about that.</p>
<p>In any event, I have to strongly disagree with Chris&#8217; suggestion that booking through an intermediary is generally a good practice.  Common experiences suggest that the more pieces something has the easier it is to break. My experience is that booking directly with the travel provider provides the greatest chance of a successful trip.  Booking through intermediaries permits the various parties to play the blame game to the traveler&#8217;s detriment</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22594</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22594</guid>
		<description>In this case, apparently the agent made a mistake.  Sometimes, in all the various computer systems that are linked together, your reservation and your ticket are not attached/linked.  This can be a VERY big problem, especially for an inexperienced agent.

LESSON:  Always carry documention of your E-TICKET NUMBER, *NOT* just a copy of your reservation.  

I frequently see people who just show a printout from their computer that can be before a purchase.  Showing such a printout is not proof that you have a ticket.  Good agencies will always have the ticket number on the itinerary, but that is not always the case.

And as to the question, &quot;If I don&#039;t have a ticket, then how did I get here?&quot;  In SOME situations, you may have unfortunately encountered an &quot;inexperienced&quot; agent who could have been the first one who checked you in without you ever purchasing your ticket.  I have seen that too, frequently.  In a sense, you got &quot;lucky&quot; by getting on your plane without paying for a ticket.  But if the ticket was never purchased, you are unlikely to get that fortunate on your return.  (For people who can&#039;t read closely, this is provided FYI, not commenting on the above situation.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this case, apparently the agent made a mistake.  Sometimes, in all the various computer systems that are linked together, your reservation and your ticket are not attached/linked.  This can be a VERY big problem, especially for an inexperienced agent.</p>
<p>LESSON:  Always carry documention of your E-TICKET NUMBER, *NOT* just a copy of your reservation.  </p>
<p>I frequently see people who just show a printout from their computer that can be before a purchase.  Showing such a printout is not proof that you have a ticket.  Good agencies will always have the ticket number on the itinerary, but that is not always the case.</p>
<p>And as to the question, &#8220;If I don&#8217;t have a ticket, then how did I get here?&#8221;  In SOME situations, you may have unfortunately encountered an &#8220;inexperienced&#8221; agent who could have been the first one who checked you in without you ever purchasing your ticket.  I have seen that too, frequently.  In a sense, you got &#8220;lucky&#8221; by getting on your plane without paying for a ticket.  But if the ticket was never purchased, you are unlikely to get that fortunate on your return.  (For people who can&#8217;t read closely, this is provided FYI, not commenting on the above situation.)</p>
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		<title>By: David Z</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22590</link>
		<dc:creator>David Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22590</guid>
		<description>@Lisa S

Chris didn&#039;t seemingly recommend booking through a middleman, but neither did he say one shouldn&#039;t. If anything, he appears to recommend, advise, or what-not what to do for &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; specific situation.

In this specific situation, though, I agree one ought to book directly with the vendor rather than through a middleman or travel agent/agency. But there are certain (or maybe few?) times they &lt;b&gt;do&lt;/b&gt; come through as seen here, though that can definitely be avoided.

YMMV. Your Mileage May Vary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lisa S</p>
<p>Chris didn&#8217;t seemingly recommend booking through a middleman, but neither did he say one shouldn&#8217;t. If anything, he appears to recommend, advise, or what-not what to do for <i>this</i> specific situation.</p>
<p>In this specific situation, though, I agree one ought to book directly with the vendor rather than through a middleman or travel agent/agency. But there are certain (or maybe few?) times they <b>do</b> come through as seen here, though that can definitely be avoided.</p>
<p>YMMV. Your Mileage May Vary.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22587</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22587</guid>
		<description>Elliott,

I don&#039;t think this traveler could have done anything different.  Let&#039;s assume he arrived at the airport with 2 hours to spare.  If he sits on the phone to try to play tag with Orbitz, he might not have time to get through security and catch his original flight.  Depending on his need, this may or may not have been an option.  Maybe he had to be back in the morning for work or something.  Unfortunately with such a mess at hand, it&#039;s obvious a call most likely wouldn&#039;t have solved this problem.  The blame game would have taking a while to sort while he sits there in Morocco at an airport and waits.  With all these circumstances at hand, he should have just bought the ticket, then disputed the charge on his credit card if all else failed.  He had proof of his original purchase, and his credit card would have sided with him without a doubt should others left him stranded.

Justin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliott,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this traveler could have done anything different.  Let&#8217;s assume he arrived at the airport with 2 hours to spare.  If he sits on the phone to try to play tag with Orbitz, he might not have time to get through security and catch his original flight.  Depending on his need, this may or may not have been an option.  Maybe he had to be back in the morning for work or something.  Unfortunately with such a mess at hand, it&#8217;s obvious a call most likely wouldn&#8217;t have solved this problem.  The blame game would have taking a while to sort while he sits there in Morocco at an airport and waits.  With all these circumstances at hand, he should have just bought the ticket, then disputed the charge on his credit card if all else failed.  He had proof of his original purchase, and his credit card would have sided with him without a doubt should others left him stranded.</p>
<p>Justin</p>
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		<title>By: sami</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22586</link>
		<dc:creator>sami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22586</guid>
		<description>I dunno about calling Orbitz while in Morocco. It&#039;s not exactly easy to get ahold of an actual person for these online travel agencies, let alone while you are in a foreign country paying out-the-nose for these phone calls...and, I imagine, are a few hours from boarding an international flight. High-pressure situation, indeed.
I had to make a phone call at $.50 a minute. Once I got a person on the phone, it was quick, but it was something like 30 minutes of holding, pressing buttons and being transferred....that&#039;s time that the agent probably spent saying &quot;if you don&#039;t do this now, you can&#039;t get on the flight, it is about to close security, etc. etc.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno about calling Orbitz while in Morocco. It&#8217;s not exactly easy to get ahold of an actual person for these online travel agencies, let alone while you are in a foreign country paying out-the-nose for these phone calls&#8230;and, I imagine, are a few hours from boarding an international flight. High-pressure situation, indeed.<br />
I had to make a phone call at $.50 a minute. Once I got a person on the phone, it was quick, but it was something like 30 minutes of holding, pressing buttons and being transferred&#8230;.that&#8217;s time that the agent probably spent saying &#8220;if you don&#8217;t do this now, you can&#8217;t get on the flight, it is about to close security, etc. etc.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kathyj</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/if-these-arent-tickets-then-how-did-i-get-out-here/comment-page-1/#comment-22585</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathyj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7876#comment-22585</guid>
		<description>If Pederson disputes the FTF &amp; interest I would think he would win, since the charge was wrong to begin with. Let the credit card company go after Northwest for it, since it was their fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Pederson disputes the FTF &amp; interest I would think he would win, since the charge was wrong to begin with. Let the credit card company go after Northwest for it, since it was their fault.</p>
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