At first glance, Deanna Dawkins’ flight itinerary from Jacksonville, Fla., to London looked perfectly normal. There was only a change of plane in New York, according to Travelocity.
But neither she, nor her father, Robert, examined the schedule closely. If they had, they’d have noticed a small notation: “Airport change from New York La Guardia (LGA) to New York J F Kennedy International Airport (JFK).”
That’s right. Dawkins would have to take a cab across town.
Can Travelocity sell that kind of itinerary? Her father wondered. (If he sounds a little worried, it’s because he has good reason: Deanna is spending her junior year abroad.)
Never have I seen a reservation made that required the passenger to reclaim her luggage, get ground transportation on her own to a second airport miles away, re-check her bags, go through security a second time, and pay a second set of baggage fees.
I called Travelocity to ask how in the world they could offer such an itinerary, and they basically said it was the airline’s (Delta) fault and my fault, the airline for offering it, and me for booking it. How can a travel site offer this as a travel option? How can this possibly be legal?
The short answer is: It’s legal, but it shouldn’t be. Travelocity is no stranger to the problematic connection in New York.
I recommended Dawkins send a brief, polite email to Travelocity, asking it to help his daughter.
Here’s its response:
Travelocity will refund the cost of the taxi between LaGuardia and JFK airports up to $50.00. We will also refund you if Deanna is charged a second baggage fee in JFK. Please advise Deanna to request a receipt for the taxi and any baggage fee paid at JFK. Send the copies of the receipts to the fax number listed below or scan and attach them to an email. Your feedback is valuable to us and we hope you will give us another opportunity to be your online travel provider.
Good for Travelocity, although I think it would have been better for Deanna to reschedule one of her legs so she didn’t have to transfer at all. Still, covering the cab ride was the right thing for Travelocity.
Dawkins has an idea, too.
Wouldn’t it have been more honest — assuming that a travel schedule like this should be offered in the first place, which it absolutely shouldn’t be — to clearly say in boldface red type that this was not your standard itinerary, and that your connection was miles away and you were completely on your own to get there, and that you’d have to get your luggage, then have to check that luggage again, and then wait in line to go through security all over again?
Can’t disagree with that. But I also have a recommendation for Dawkins: Next time, review your itinerary immediately and call Travelocity if there’s something wrong with it. An agency can fix a problem like this — if it’s brought to its attention quickly.
Update (1 p.m.): Travelocity responds:
Enclosed is a screen grab of what we advise when a change of airport is involved…I thought you and your readers would find it of interest.
We are interested.
(Photo: morrissey/Flickr Creative Commons)
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{ 57 comments… read them below or add one }
I’ve also noticed a lot of listings coming up for “overnight” flights lately, where you arrive the next day. I’ve had to page through pages of these sometimes or change the max duration to get to reasonable flights. I think the airline computers are getting a bit more liberal about how they offer to fill up seats.
It’s nice that Travelocity is *saying* they’ll offer compensation, but as everyone who reads this site knows, actually getting them to pay out will be another thing altogether.
I hope the poor girl has at least a 4 hour layover.
I have an even better idea. Next time, use a real, live, flesh and blood professional travel agent. An agent would have made sure the passenger fully understood the itinerary and offered other options.
Even if they charged a fee, it would have been money well spent.
I don’t see how it would be illegal. Unethical, sure, but hey, it’s your own fault for not reading into it. I’ve seen these types of connections before. There’s a reason why you paid a much cheaper price than another flight that probably leaves straight out of JFK.
It’s like saying, you bought an item online and failed to fully read the description and was disappointed that it was not what you THOUGHT it would be.
I think it was generous of Travelocity to offer any sort of compensation… I do hope that your daughter has a few hours for layover, what with JFK traffic being a complete nightmare at times and also with the new security checks in place.
Good luck.
Computers are dumb and human intervention is critical as you suggested.
I have not checked recently, but on many online sites, if you did not specify and airport and only a city, you could get something like this. It is a legal connection per the airlines as long as there is time.
For instance, NYC is not an airport code, but in many online engines it will put you in JFK, LGA, EWR or even SWF. For LON (London) you might get LGW, LHR, LCY, LTN, or STN.
Just pays to be careful
Chris, honestly this isn’t Travelocity’s fault. They didn’t put together the flight segments. The airlines offer them up, check out the airline websites. This also happens in London (fly into Heathrow, out of Gatwick).
I agree that the airlines shouldn’t offer this to start with, but as long as they do the airlines and Travelocity (Orbitz, Expedia, etc.) need to CLEARLY denote this information PRIIOR to purchase and explain there’s a taxi or shuttle cost to transfer, and reclearing security will be required. Because many DIY travelers are really novices and they don’t pay attention to little details like airport codes when they are booking their flights. A live flesh & blood travel agent could have prevented this from the start … and the booking fee a travel agent charges for airfare may have been less than the cost of that taxi cab ride!!
The problem is that this isn’t a new thing, nor something that’s limited to Travelocity. In the grand scheme of things the reservation systems consider those airports to be, basically, the same. It’s been that way for years and years. Same with London. That’s actually the industry standard for those cities believe it or not. Travel agents know that this is one of the standard pitfalls when booking flights through these cities and keep an eye out for them so that their client don’t have to go through this. It’s not Travelocity’s fault for selling something that’s been industry standard for ages. If people are going to take on the role of being their own travel agents then they have to take responsibility for reviewing their itineraries and all the relevant information before hitting that “book now” button. The industry shouldn’t have to make special arrangements to accommodate the DIYers that aren’t willing to do that.
Travelocity (or Delta) probably did them a favor with pricing. That or it saved her a connection through Atlanta or Detroit to get to JFK. I’ve had this same thing come up in DC area and in NYC. Saves hours on travel time.
To look on the bright side on this – at least she will know that her luggage has made the transfer because it will be with her. IF there is at least four hours – more would be better – she can make this trip, it is much simpler than Newark to JFK or La Guardia. And bring cash, it will be close to fifty dollars for the fare.
BTW this is not an uncommon situation in NYC there are three airports, plus the smaller ones in the suburbs. And taking the train may not avoid it. Amtrak has recently reorganized their thru trains to all go to Penn Station but they still often require a transfer from Grand Central to Penn Station to make connections. Boston train connections have the same issues. So one must check it out carefully BEFORE clicking the button or learn to adapt afterwards. Isn’t traveling supposed to be an adventure??
I second what Catherine above has said, all those out there who book their own flights/packages, who think they know it all and then find out they have screwed it up and then want help from the professionals to fit it. If I was spending money for an up and coming trip I would let the professionals handle it, not a no face, no voice website where questions can’t be asked and information given prior to the booking.
While on a certain level I feel sympathy for the family in this case, I have seen these types of itineraries before and they are generally marked (sometimes clearly :)). If you read the documentation before you buy, you’ll find out all this. So maybe Travelocity shouldn’t offer this (but then again, why shouldn’t they if people will buy it?), but all travelers should read the documentation carefully.
Even better than using a professional in-person travel agent, it’s called using your eyes. When I go from Austin to Orlando with a stop in Houston (via Southwest, so that’d be the Houston Hobby airport, not the larger one), I can see AUS – HOU, HOU – MCO. If it were to direct the connecting flight through the larger Houston airport (IAH), it’d read AUS – HOU, IAH – MCO. Is it really that hard to notice a difference in letters? When you click on the “1 Stop” link on Travelocity, it shows you where you arrive to and underneath that where you depart from on the connecting flight. I honestly can’t see how someone can not notice that…especially with a disclaimer saying that the airport changes. Maybe it’s just me, but when I book a flight, I triple check everything to make sure the dates, times, etc. are what I want before booking it.
It’s funny you mention this, because when I spent my junior year abroad, I had a domestic flight into LGA and had to take a cab to JFK for the international leg.
I survived.
Kayak.com which is my preferred travel site already does flash up a big warning if there is a change of airports (JFK/EWR/LGA or LHR/LGW etc…).
@Catherine- the last time I used a real travel agent, I was booked on a domestic flight that departed before my international arrival had landed due to confusion about the international dateline. It wasn’t really her fault, but a real travel agent still makes mistakes.
I think Catherine said it right: a real-live professional travel agent would have saved the day in this case. I use Travelocity from time to time for simple transactions. It’s SINFUL of SABRE (Travelocity’s computer booking engine) to offer these types of connections. But SABRE is just a box. A professional travel agent could have saved the day. That said, it’s good of Travelocity to shell out the $$$ for cab, baggage, etc.
I don’t object to the reservation as long as its adequately disclosed. Perhaps this reservation is very cheap and that’s why it was offered. As long as the guest fully understands the reservation and its consequences I’m fine.
But I don’t believe that its ethical to bury such fundamental information deep in the contract. That should be disclosed upfront and in such a way that it calls attention to itself.
@Catherine
Yes, a real, flesh and blood professional travel agent is the answer to all of travel woes. *sigh*. The company line is getting really old. The travel industry loses credibility when it suggests that simple A to B itineraries require professional services, particularly if the ultimate destination is well travelled by Americans such as London.
This is why it is critical to read all the fine print. I spend a lot of time playing around with flight schedules to Italy from Seattle, which always involves connecting somewhere. I’ve seen the JFK – LaGuardia switch, and London Heathrow / Gatwick is also quite common. Once I found an itinerary that was Seattle – Heathrow / Gatwick – Milan Malpensa outbound and Milan Linate – Gatwick / Heathrow – Seattle on the return flight.
You don’t need a travel agent to deal with these kinds of itineraries if you are familiar with booking travel online or are a Type “A” personality (like me). It sounds as if these unfortunate people were not as familiar or careful as they should’ve been, and got burned.
None of which entirely excuses Travelocity. The better online booking sites clearly highlight changes of airport in addition to overnight stays and other sometimes undesirable schedules. Such issues should be easily discernable with a glance. I agree with the other Liz that Deanna had best document EVERYTHING and hang onto those receipts.
This is hardly new. I have flown RDU to London for many years and routinely see itineraries that require a change of airport in New York. I also transit through London on occasion, which often requires a change of airport also, with a longer distance than in New York (Heathrow to/from Gatwick is common, or Heathrow or Gatwick to Stansted or Luton if I’m booking a cheapie separately). And I don’t use Expedia, Travelocity or Orbitz. You just have to pay attention to the listings, just as you have to make sure they allow enough time to make a transfer within the same airport (which might mean a different terminal building)..
“Wouldn’t it have been more honest — assuming that a travel schedule like this should be offered in the first place, which it absolutely shouldn’t be — to clearly say in boldface red type that this was not your standard itinerary, and that your connection was miles away and you were completely on your own to get there, and that you’d have to get your luggage, then have to check that luggage again, and then wait in line to go through security all over again?”
Actually, if you try to book that itinerary on Travelocity today, it does appear pretty prominently (in red!) when you select the flights (“Change planes in New York, NY – transfer from New York La Guardia Airport (LGA) to New York J F Kennedy International Airport (JFK)”) and again on the confirmation page. Is this new?
It’s also interesting to note that if you book directly through Delta’s website, a stop in New York is not offered, only transfers in Atlanta and Detroit (for one-stop itineraries).
What happened to me was just as bad – for unknown reason, my CO flight to JFK was “diverted” to LGA with my continuing connection leaving from JFK. I had allowed a 3+ hour connection time but that was not enough when the cross town travel was required. I tried, but failed to get there in time. Naturally, the next 2 available flights home were from LGA or EWR (and not enough time to get there from JFK). Had to wait for the next day. Airline said “tough luck” when I asked for hotel/meal vouchers. I wrote them a letter and they said they were so sorry it happened but it was “beyond their control”. The same thing has happened at least once to a friend.
I had a similar reservation happen to me in 2008. The booking was directly with American Airlines. When I asked them about providing transportation between these airports, they said it was my problem and not theirs. Indeed this change in airports was the case for both journeys – travel to Zurich (from Nashville) and back. We had to handle all the luggage etc.
Is it too late to get American to reimburse us for the taxi fares?
I am yet another traveler who had a similar thing — five years ago. I bought a flight from LAX to Lisbon, changing planes in Paris. Only we didn’t just change planes, we changed airports – from CDG to Orly! This was also Delta, and I also bought my ticket from Travelocity.
The difference was that it was made VERY OBVIOUS during the purchase process that an airport change was involved. It flashed up on my screen in bold letters, in RED, several times. There was truly no way I could have NOT seen it…unless I was half-asleep while I was buying my ticket. Or couldn’t read English.
And it worked out well for me! It was several hundred dollars cheaper than any direct flights, or flights that had same-airport connections. It cost me $40 for a shuttle between airports. (This was, of course, before baggage charges.)
Sorry, but put me on the side of the folks who see this as yet another traveler who didn’t pay attention to what they were doing and made a mistake…and then called Christopher to sort it out for them. Thank God we HAVE Christopher to sort these kinds of things out…but I’m sure he’d rather be spending his time addressing cases in which a traveler was wronged, rather than getting travelers out of their own, self-created messes.
Personally I think Travelocity well beyond the call of duty here. I never asked them to refund my $40 shuttle fee…and I wouldn’t have thought to, because they made it clear when I bought the ticket that I was responsible for my own transfer.
@Carver – I too get tired of the “use a travel agent for everything and all your problems will be solved” line. People shouldn’t have to use a TA to simply buy a flight. But they DO have to use common sense and have basic computer and literacy skills. If someone is an extremely inexperienced traveller (or computer user), they probably SHOULD use a TA.
@Lila – your situation is very different than the OP’s – your flight itinerary was changed IN THE AIR, and you should have been accommodated by the airline. Maybe if you’d called Christopher he could have helped! ;-)
I’ve done a bit of digging into this, and found that these kinds of flights are actually listed in Delta’s schedule: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1858017/Flight%20Schedules.pdf
I can’t get their website to book it, however: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1858017/Book%20a%20Flight%20at%20Delta.pdf
(please note: these links will eventually go dead)
Carver,
You complain that travel agents are getting old when they suggest that Americans need professional help when booking a simple trip and yet here we are discussing the pitfalls of an average American booking a simple trip and then having problems because they didn’t know what they were doing. So your answer is what?
I’m sure that there are bad travel agents out there however most of those have been winnowed out since the mid 90’s when the industry underwent a major shake up.
As to why the reservation systems offer these connections, it is very simple, people want the cheapest fare and are surprisingly willing to undertake cross city journeys to save a few dollars on airfare. Of course, they fail to factor in the additional costs of the cab fare and the costs that they will incur when they misconnect. Penny wise, pound foolish.
I have never heard of switching airports unless there is an overnight involved. Travelocity may be stretching the parameters of the flights and scheduling to give ALL the options without the considerations of logistics.
For instance, when they give the option to include ‘nearby’ airports.
Watch out for this in the San Francisco area also. SFO, OAK, and SJC are not close to each other but I have seen Travelocity and Expedia offering “round trip” tickets into one and out of another.
I’m sorry, but I disagree with those who automatically say that having a travel agent would have changed anything. I have dealt with agents before and when plane tickets are involved they just book the tickets and get them to you. I’ve never been given any special instructions about any carrier or special fees.
Also, just because something has been a certain way for years and years doesn’t make it necessarily right. At a minimum, it should be disclosed in large text that an airport change is required along with possible costs associated with the change. As someone who has never been to New York, I would have no idea that a taxi ride might cost $40, especially if the same ride where I live would cost $10. This is important information to have because A) you need to make sure you have funds on hand, and B) to compare the true cost of the tickets.
It’s curious that nobody has suggested the possibility of dealing directly with the airline (Delta or otherwise) by phone, rather than online. Sure, there is a small fee involved, but for anyone not well-versed in air travel and its pitfalls, its well worthwhile. I would greatly prefer to call the airline directly and make my travel arrangements with them rather than dealing with Travelocity or some similar service.
Kudos to Travelocity. However, wans’t it cheaper to connect in Miami or drive there and then take a direct flight? That boggles me…
@John M – I would disagree that this was an “average American” having a common problem. I firmly believe that MOST people booking this flight would have seen the bold notifications of the airport change. Why didn’t the OP? Who knows…but I would venture to guess that the vast majority of Americans would have noticed it. So I stand by my opinion that most simple travel purchases (e.g. flights) can be booked without a TA…unless someone has special needs beyond the norm (e.g. is a very inexperienced traveler, is not computer literate, or has language issues).
I also disagree that purchasing such a ticket is penny-wise and pound-foolish. Read my comment above — it worked for me! At the time I had to purchase my ticket, the itinerary that changed airports in Paris was about $600 less than any others…and cost me a grand total of $40 for the shuttle. It did cost something in convenience, but to me, a cross-Paris transfer was worth it to save over $500. Others might not feel that way…and they were free to book the more expensive flights.
@brian – just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t occur. Read all the comments above…as you can see, this does happen. It’s good to be aware that these things DO happen, so you can be on the watch for the notifications that will pop up when such transfers are part of a quoted itinerary.
Switching airports is not uncommon, unless I have travelled way too much in my life. I have done the LGW-LHR shuffle, as well as CDG-ORY shuffle. Domestically I have done LAX/BUR before.
Granted, I have voluntarily booked these “crazy” connections because of cost savings, but have left plenty of time to make these connections. I left 6 hours between CDG and ORY, and 8 hours for LGW and LHR. As many have said, making these switches is not difficult as long as you schedule ADEQUATE TIME!
At least this is an interline ticket, so there is SOME recourse if the connection is bungled.
Think this is a case of buyer beware and needs to take due diligence when booking a trip. I don’t see how Travelocity is at fault here. It’s your job as a consumer to make sure the product you purchase is the one you want. Better yet, if a mistake is made, to notify the party immediately and see if it can be solved. He didn’t do either of these things, and the purchaser is 100 percent at fault here. As they say, ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it.
It is not illegal nor should it be. Neither is it unethical. What is unethical is someone being an idiot and then trying to blame the other party for their own stupidity or laziness.
Another case of people not reading terms, rules, limitations, specifications, then boohooing to mommy.elliot to fix it for them.
Grow up and be adults, people.
It happened to me 3 years ago. Flight from San Diego to Rome and back.
The return flight happens to stop in JFK and fly out of Newark, but Alitalia was nice to change right at the airport. no big deal…The thing was that we cough it on the way out and while waiting at Newark we went o Alitalia counter and explained, they change it on the spot no fees or anything…….
Here’s my two cents. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Travelocity or other sites to sell an itinerary with a transfer between airports (and as a consumer, I would like to see those options, especially if there may be a significant cost savings). I also think, as the screenshot shows, it’s clear enough that there’s an airport change in the itinerary (and I’ve done some searches on Travelocity recently, and have quickly noticed when an itinerary had an airport change).
My concern as a traveler would be in regards to the layover between flights. Allowing enough time to get off the plane, claim baggage, travel to the other airport, check baggage, go through security again, and get to the gate…well, that seems like that would require at least several hours to be safe.
@John M
Yes, I stand by my comment. A travel agent is one of many potential solutions to the OPs problem. However it is not the only solution, nor an appropriate solution for anyone who travels with any frequency.
My objection is when travel agents suggest that all reservations need to be made by a travel agent regardless of the complexity of the reservation and the sophistication of the traveler.
That is not a credible statement.
I think it is completely over the top to say that this shouldn’t be legal!? There are bus/train shuttle services between the NYC airports and it’s not like it takes several hours. I also find it hard to believe that the change of airports was not evident before after the purchase. (That shouldn’t be legal).
Plus, everything LeeAnne said.
To be sure you have to be doubly vigilant when using a self serve s travel site. I booked a trip from Buenos Aires to Phoenix for my inlaws. Orbitz had them going to LAX with a 1.5 hour layover in LAX. US airways changes the LAX to PHX portion. The new schedule had themconnecting from Delta in terminal 4 to uAAirways in terminal 1 in 35 mins. When I called Orbitz they informed me it was a legal connection. Legal maybe but impossible to do. I really had to argue that there was no way my 73 year old mother in law could run through the LAX airport complex. And make a flight in 30 mins. If I hadn’t been checking the res all the time I would have missed it and who knows what would have happened at LAX when they tried to check in for their US Airways flight. Alway always review your reservations.
I don’t get where all of the outrage is coming from. There is no reason for this to be illegal, and I agree with another comment above that Travelocity went way above and beyond by offering compensation for the ground transfer. It sounds to me like this is a case of someone trying to blame someone else for their own mistake. There is a big difference between LGA and JFK, you just have to pay attention.
I have done this kind of connection before if it avoids having to fly the two legs of a triangle instead of the hypotenuse, or if it eliminates a 9 hour layover at JFK. This becomes really easy when there is rail between airports like in London or even EWR-JFK, but there are plenty of options for getting from LGA to JFK. You just have to allow an appropriate amount of time for the connection, but even changing terminals at JFK can take two hours, which is pretty common when changing from an international flight to a domestic one or changing between two partner airlines.
BTW, there are excellent car services in NYC to provide transport between airports for a reasonable fee. My wife and I have used Dial7 car service many times for transfers around NYC. http://www.dial7.com/transportation_rates_NY
They meet you outside the baggage claim, load your bags and whisk you off to wherever you need to go. E. g. $33 Laguardia to Midtown.
Unmet expectations? Turns out the connection is realistically doable, although others can opt for a more expensive yet convenient one.
Ditto with everyone else: caveat emptor.
I’m in the boonies and wouldn’t even consider going through New York, a place I haven’t visited since 1963. Wouldn’t it have been simpler to travel through Boston? I can get there from western NC with only a small effort. Surely BOS is on the JAX schedules?????
I’m grateful I don’t have to fly anymore and can luxuriate in the comforts of home from now on. Travel looks like more than the game is worth, overall.
Deanna is finding that travel is broadening…..in so many ways….good luck to her….she’s already learned to read the fine print before hitting “send.”
Airlines do this all the time, they have been for ever, even when you would buy tickets over the phone.
This is not an unusual situation flying throughout South America too. In many cases, such as Sao Paulo, Brazil, there is an international airport and a domestic airport. I have flown in to the Sao Paulo international airport and then taken a bus to the domestic airport. As long as you allow enough time, it’s a convenient and reasonable connection.
All they had to do was book directly with Delta. Every Delta sales professional knows that transportation is provided between LGA/EWR/JFK when connecting to/from a Transatlantic flight (and most other international flights). There is a requirement of 6 hrs between flights. Why didn’t an experiences travel agency like Travelocity not know this and advise their clients.
This almost happened to me several years ago. I was looking for inexpensive flights to Paris for three. I found a number of cheap flights that came into JFK and left from either Newark or LGA. I thought it wouldn’t be a problem, hop the subway and BAM you’re there! Thank heavens a large number of ex-New Yorkers put the stop to those dreams. My boss refused to let my pipe dreams live and very strongly advised me to ignore those flights. Also, there was a small red note advising me that the flights did not leave from the same airport on the page with the fares, so I was made aware of the change in venue. I paid a bit more but arrived and left from JFK. Caveat emptor indeed.
As a travel agent I agree that my services are not needed on simple point-to-point flights and I tell my clients this. If they don’t want to be bothered doing it themselves or are uncomfortable doing so then I will do it for them and charge my usual fee. What gets my goat are the people who try to book online, run into trouble for one reason or another and then expect me to bail them out. If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. I agree with LeeAnne that Chris surely has better things to do than save people from their own carelessness or stupidity.
Unmet expectations? Where? It is right there in red text! Why would you expect something other than what you were clearly told to expect? This is perfect example of someone not reading the screen before they clicked and then trying to find someone else to blame when they figure out that they made a mistake. There is no basis for them to complain to Travelocity or Chris. As far as I am concerned, Travelocity should have told them to pound salt when they asked for compensation for the ground transfer. They got what they were told they were buying, and more, thanks to their whining.
This type of connection is not unethical, should not be illegal and should not be inspiring all of the indignation that I am reading above. It has a valid purpose so long as you allow enough transfer time.
The other thing that you have to take in to account here is that the flight described above is an outbound flight. Coming back in to the US, you have to allow for passport control, baggage claim and customs. If you are connecting to another flight, you will have to re-screen. So, if you already have to collect your bags before customs, and then recheck them and re-screen, then does it really matter if you recheck and re-screen at JFK or LGA? Just factor in the extra time coming back in to the US.
Echoing what Scott says above, these “connections” have been around as long as I’ve been in the business (27 years) and I ALWAYS warn clients about them. Some will do it, some won’t, but there is certainly nothing unethical or illegal about them. In some cases, like Rio,where domestic flights depart from a different airport than international flights, they are routine and required. Another example of odd connections, which require extreme vigilance, are those where the international flight arrives at night and the connecting flights leaves the next morning, necessitating an overnight stay. Schedules like this can be confusing to those who aren’t used to dealing with them on a regular basis.