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Hey American Airlines, here’s your $25 — I hope you’re happy

February 24, 2010

After my recent luggage standoff with an American Airlines gate agent in Orlando, which ended with her threatening to charge me $100 to check my regulation-size bags on my return flight, a lot of you have asked me how the journey home went.

We survived.


To recap, I was flying to Colorado with Kari and the kids. We had a great time skiing in Beaver Creek.

Although I can pack like a pro when I’m flying solo, I readily admit to being a complete failure when it comes to packing for young children. And ours — who range in ages from 3 to 7 — are a challenge. They have games, books, snacks and drinks – all of which need to be carried on the aircraft.

So you can imagine the scene in Orlando: Five passengers, each with two regulation-size bags that were packed – and then repacked – to accommodate my kids’ entertainment needs. It looked like we were trying to haul everything but the kitchen sink on the plane.

American asked us to surrender four of our bags, which we did. Although it didn’t charge us for the gate-check, I could tell they were unhappy with the missed ancillary revenue opportunity. So I felt the threat of socking us for $100 on the way home was very real.

The solution was to give a little and take a little for the return trip. We overpacked one bag, making sure it weighed less than 50 pounds. Then we made sure the other bags were packed right – no cramming a jacket or coloring books into the luggage any which way. Everything was tight and organized.

We paid American $25 for the first bag and checked the rest in. And it worked.

I have a few thoughts on charging for luggage after this ordeal.

• If American had offered a fare that included one checked bag per passenger, I would have booked it. Why can’t it do that? American could easily have also offered a fare minus the bag alongside the other fare. Frontier does this.

• There are certain passengers who don’t need the ability to check a bag, and some that do. For example, a business traveler may only carry one bag on the plane. A family of five on a ski trip, like us, can’t do that. Ironically, airlines allow the elite-level frequent travelers to check as many bags as they want; they sock it to the budget-conscious families. Where’s the logic in that?

• I’m tired of the pro-ancillary revenues passengers arguing with the anti-ancillary revenue travelers. They both have a point. Nowhere does it say an airline ticket must include a checked bag, a confirmed seat reservation, even a cup of barely-potable tapwater. But passengers are not cargo; we have needs that go beyond a seat. And we hate – repeat, hate – being nickeled and dimed.

I hope American is happy with its $25. Personally, I think there are better ways of making money than coercing families into paying for their bulky luggage. American got the airline industry into this unwinnable luggage war.

Maybe it can get us out of it, too.

(Photo: kevindooley/Flickr Creative Commons)

Christopher Elliott is the author of Scammed: How to Save Your Money and Find Better Service in a World of Schemes, Swindles, and Shady Deals. Critics have called it “eye-opening” and “inspiring” — it’ll “grab your attention and won’t let go.” Order your copy now on Amazon, Barnes & Noble or iTunes.

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55 comments

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  • Roberto

    It sounds like on your outbound leg, your entire family showed up with two carryons each, instead of one carryon and one personal item each. Were you trying to bend the rules a bit?

  • Jose

    I’m in the military and my current position requires me to travel quite a bit. But, I hardly ever check in a bag, it is even free, being military and under orders, airlines have waived the fee for military traveling on orders. But, when I travel with my family, I have a two year old, and you would not believe the amount of stuff a two year old requires. Now, to my point. I too, have noticed that the only ones being hurt by these nickel and dime policies are families and non-frequent travelers. Is the extra money the airlines making worth all the bad PR? I wonder how big of a bonus the CEO of AA will get this year? Then again they might need that bonus to check in their bags at the airport.

  • Christopher Elliott

    Yes, two bags – one carry-on and a laptop or pocketbook.

  • http://camelsandchocolate.com Kristin — Camels & Chocolate

    The funny thing about this whole scenario is what AA might have thought when they figure out just WHO they pissed off (i.e. the travel industry’s most knowledgeable and celebrated guru). I hope that gate agent who threatened you got a severe talking to by her supervisor! Not that those of us in the travel industry should be treated differently from your average travel; it’s just that some of us (again, i.e. you) have voices more easily heard that travelers not in the industry or sans blogs.

  • Mindy

    Roberto- seriously?? I think Chris knows the rules. When you end up with multiple children, parents carrying thier bags for them it just LOOKS worse than it actually is. If they start nitpicking on whether my backpack is a carryon or a personal item- I’ll throw in the towel and drive.

  • http://oussamastake.blogspot.com/ Oussama

    Well said, in any case the old fares did include a checked bag. What upsets me the most is the uneven application of ancillary revenue scheme. Are gate agents so blind that they cannot notice that 80% of the hand luggage does not fit their hand luggage measuring templates and allow passengers to take them on board.

  • Justin

    Here’s a question I had for you from another thread. It applies here also.

    @ Chris,

    I have a question I think everyone is wondering. Are airlines really losing money like they claim? Certainly, there have been a few go under and fail. However, are these big airlines REALLY bleeding cash as they tell the consumer?

    Are these “Baggage fees”, a la carte, and change of ticket costs really justified as a way to make up for losses or are they a ploy? I have wondered this for quite some time. I mean, to me, I believe that just charge one price and be done with it. I know, as you have stated, you believe that too. Yet, is this a revenue they REALLY NEED or is this just a money grabbing technique?

  • Carver Farrow

    Technically, elite level passengers are permitted to check two bags. Any more and they are charged.

    To your question, why sock it to the budget conscious family over the business traveler? That’s easy. The business traveler generally generates more revenue than the family traveler. I unexpectedly had to be in Southern California at the Federal Courthouse. I had no leeway in the where or the when. The fare was $129 one way. I had to pay it. Had I been traveling for leisure, I’d have traveled the next day, when the fare was $52, a 59 percent saving.

    Since I paid more money for the identical seat, it stands to reason that I should be entitled to more benefits.

  • Liz

    The thing about kids and carryons – they can always put theirs under the seat in front of them since they don’t really have need for legroom. If you do that, you’re not taking up anyone else’s overhead bin space.

  • http://www.angrymarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    I’m glad you found a happy resolution to this issue.

  • Zally

    Glad to hear it worked out in the end… Another point to consider in all this is the fact that the liability for lost luggage has gone up astronomically in the last few years. Perhaps discouraging passengers from checking bags is a way to keep closer rein on such claims. Just a thought…

  • Justin

    @ Carver,

    I disagree with your assessment. There are far more travelers that are individuals than business. Look at any flight. Business travelers most often fly first class or board first. I guarantee you that on almost every flight I’ve been on, a greater majority seem to be your ordinary travelers. I can’t pin hard numbers because I don’t have any. Yet, I’d say pound for pound that the ordinary traveler far outweighs the business type in terms of revenue. Sure, business travelers pay more. Yet, since there seem to be far fewer, even a higher price couldn’t offset things to make it equal. Therefore, I believe this to be a money grabbing technique personally. I wish Chris would confirm my question with some insight. However, i am not so sure the airlines are really hurting to need the revenue. If they are, just include it in the price and be done with it. Stop nickel and diming.

  • Nun

    It sounds like the Southwest fare must have been at least $25 more per person or you didn’t like their routing. So what are you complaining about again?

  • Noah

    “• If American had offered a fare that included one checked bag per passenger, I would have booked it. Why can’t it do that? American could easily have also offered a fare minus the bag alongside the other fare. Frontier does this.”

    –I don’t understand. If American offered a “with one checked bag” ticket, it would just cost $25 more. Why does it matter whether it’s part of the ticket price, or a separate “fee.” Isn’t this an argument IN FAVOR OF a la carte fees??

  • y_p_w

    I think you guys might be surprised at how much money full-fare business travelers make for the airlines.

    I wasn’t much of a traveler when I was in college, but I decided to visit someone in New York, and a few months later had a job interview in Boston. Both times I flew out of San Francisco. I got round-trip to NY on AA at a non-cancelable rate for about $300. The full-fare coach round-trip from San Francisco to Boston on United was more than $1300; this was paid for by the company interviewing me. Suppose the airlines’ costs are $250 per passenger – they both should be similar in costs. Now then they make $50 on the leisure traveler and $1050 on the business traveler. Of course back then they had a two bag limit regardless of the fare.

    I remember 2006 flying from Miami back home. I’d stocked up on food and beverages to wait out Tropical Storm Ernesto, and in case stores/restaurants weren’t open due to storm damage. It turned into very little to worry about in Florida, but I had a whole bunch of stuff I wasn’t able to use and spent good money on. So I looked up AA’s free bag limit (still 2 per passenger in 2006) plus size limits, went to Wal-Mart, and spent $4 on a cardboard shipping box and strapping tape. I put everything in there, including potato chips, bottled water, sugary breakfast cereal, a small cooler, bottled soft drinks, laundry detergent, etc. I think half the weight of that box was liquid, and this was a few weeks after the initial peroxide bomb scare. When I got home and got the box, it had a TSA inspection sticker and a standard TSA note inside saying that it had been opened and resealed. I’m wondering if they looked at it and started thinking someone was an idiot for transporting stuff as insignificant and easy to get as Dr Pepper and bottled water. Really though – I had maybe $40 worth of stuff I really wanted to keep, and there was plenty of room left over for the bulky inexpensive stuff like bottled water.

  • Joe Farrell

    Justin – exactly how do you think the business travelers gets upgraded to F or gets to board first with elite benefits? They have flown 20 or 25 flights that year or the year before, crammed in coach with the families and the discount travelers, getting treated like dirt and being charged 3 times or 10 more for the same ticket. Then, and only then, after being abused AND charged more, do you get any preferential treatment.

    Thats the main reason I fly myself most places now. Up to about 1100 miles. It may not cost less, but by golly, it sure it easier. And when I get there I am treated like a valued customer instead of self-loading cargo.

    When you get one person, who uses the same facilities and same amount of fuel paying 3 or 10 times the fare, you have someone who should get a little bit of consideration for things like luggage and boarding priority.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Carver Farrow – “Technically, elite level passengers are permitted to check two bags. Any more and they are charged.”

    It depends upon the airline, US Airways allows its silver elite FF to check two bags for free and its Gold, Platinum and Chairman FF to check three bags for free.

  • Steve

    I still don’t understand this scenario. Either your family had packed in accordance with AA’s rules and you were entitled to the carry-ons you brought with you (in which case, why pay $25 instead of digging in your heels and fighting for your own rights as a passenger much like you do for your readers?), or you did not comply with AA’s rules and should have checked at least one of the bags in the first place (in which case, why write a blog post blaming AA?)

    “To your question, why sock it to the budget conscious family over the business traveler? That’s easy. The business traveler generally generates more revenue than the family traveler.”

    Exactly. Anyone complaining about what elite-level fliers get should feel free to spend as much as they (or their companies’ on their behalf) spend on air travel. Which is a better deal – getting to check a couple bags for “free” because you’ve spent tens of thousands on airfare already this year (much of it at full price), or getting a $200 round-trip base fare and having to pay a little extra to check bags?

    “But passengers are not cargo; we have needs that go beyond a seat. And we hate – repeat, hate – being nickeled and dimed.”

    Yes, we are not cargo and we do have needs that go beyond a seat. I don’t think checking a bag (or two) is a need for every passenger. As such, I would rather have the option of paying for just my ticket if I don’t need to check a bag, or for my ticket and a checked bag or two if I *do* need to check bags.

    There’s being nickel-and-dimed, and there’s being charged for what you use. If I went to McDonald’s and ordered a Big Mac, fries, and a Coke, and the menu said I could get that for $5 or whatever but my receipt showed another $2 in miscellaneous charges (5-cent napkin fee, 10-cent environmental impact fee, etc. etc.), I’d be upset. That’s nickel-and-diming. Offering me the option of buying just a Big Mac, or just a Big Mac and fries, or just a Big Mac and a Coke (and charging me accordingly) isn’t nickel-and-diming – it’s allowing me to choose what I want to pay for. As a customer, I *like* this.

  • Carver Farrow

    @Justin

    Nah, check out this statement

    “Although fewer airline seats are allotted for first class and business class travel, these seats account for about three times more in airline revenues vs. other classes of airline seats. This, according to statistics provided by the International Air Transport Association (IATA). “

  • Carver Farrow

    @Arizona

    I wasn’t specific enough. My bad. Chris was on American Airlines so I meant to address that comment only to American.

  • y_p_w

    It’s not just revenue. That $200 RT fare might make a little bit of profit for the airline; it might even be sold at effectively a loss if they otherwise think the seat will go unused unless they sweeten the deal. It’s the $800 fare passenger who they actually make their money from.

    Of course “profit” is one of those things that can be difficult to quantify per passenger. There are fixed costs (fuel, takeoff/landing fees, crew pay, maintenance) in getting the plane up with a full crew, and incremental costs per passenger (peanuts, additional gate crews for full flights, fuel). I previously used examples that were just out of a hat, but I understand it’s a bit different than that.

    I’ve heard descriptions that once an airline can get a small number of full fare business and business-class/first-class travelers to fly, that’s enough to turn a profit on the cost of the flight. Then the leisure travelers can be almost pure profit. Or I suppose one can think of it the other way around, with 80% of the plane leisure travelers, then making almost pure profit from the full fare travelers.

  • Reid

    Something that I haven’t seen mentioned by the pro-free-bag people: even if _you_ don’t want to check a bag, you have to deal with all the other people who want to check a bag, but don’t because it costs money. If checked bags were free, those people would check their bags, leaving more room on the plane and less hassle in boarding. Ergo, you get benefit for paying extra* for a “free” checked bag, even if you don’t use it.

    * = this is assuming that ticket prices would actually go up if airlines stopped charging for checked bags, which I don’t believe is true.

  • Justin

    @ Carver,

    That statistic is meaningless out of context. Consider if a plane holds 150 passengers and has 15 business class. Let’s assume the fare for the ordinary flyers averages 300 dollars. Now, let’s do some rough math and say those 15 seats are 1000 each. Assuming 7 sell on that flight, that is equal to about 23 “Normal” Flyers. Certainly, they make far more money off those seats. No one argues that fact. What I am arguing is that pound for pound, those 150 travelers are STILL THE BULK revenue of the airlines. So once again, the statistic is baseless beyond the obvious. Business travelers pay more.

    For a real “fact”…

    You’d need hard numbers to show:

    A) How many regular fairs travel on a given airline in a year vs Business Class.

    B) What was the avg Business fair vs Normal class.

    I.E. If 200,000 business class were sold in 2009 @ an avg of 1000 a fair… how’s that compare to the millions upon millions sold at 300 or 400 a fair…. What percentage of revenue is business vs normal.

    See what I mean?

  • Madeline

    @ Justin

    To repost an entry from another of Chris’ sites:
    http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/2009-u-s-airline-profitloss-results-%E2%80%94-airtran-earns-and-aa-loses-the-most/

    You can see that most of the major airlines suffered huge losses last year. I’m not defending them, I’m just saying that’s why they are charging for previously free services.

    Last month, I flew last minute on a business trip and my ticket ended up being $1,900 (in coach!) The lady sitting next to me going to visit her grandkids paid $200. Airlines don’t just look at ticket revenue when evaluating passengers, they look at profitability. That additional $1,700 I paid was pure profit going into the airline’s pocket, whereas they probably made a tiny margin (or loss) on the lady visiting her grandkids. Sorry but if you want to be treated as *important* to an airline, you have to fork over the dough.

  • Chuck

    Call me old. Call me bitter. Call me both. Because I am and I remember the good ol’ days when the airlines appreciated the business of the little guy with or without kids. A free hot meal on a white tablecloth. Free wine. In coach. Oh yeh once in about 1980 I was even bumped up to first class on a red eye by a nice employee just because the flight barely had anyone on it. I even remember the airline – CONTINENTAL.
    Now 30 years later WHAT airline’s name STILL sticks in my memory…hmmm? If you want to keep my business treat me good & I’ll remember you FOREVER. P*ss me off – I will avoid you like the plague and tell everyone from my best friend to a taxi driver in Tijuana to anyONE that will listen. And I’ll put in on yelp now too.

  • Martha Skinner

    In regard to the person who said “American got the airline industry into this unwinnable luggage war.: It wasn’t American or any other airline that got us into this – it was 9/11 and the problems it cost the airlines. The airlines are struggling just as everyone else … We travel frequently and do our very best to try to consolidate and when we can’t we pay whatever the price might be without complaining.

  • http://http/aol.com barbie45

    Chris,I consider you the most effective omnibus for travel. However in this case I believe you were unfair to AA .Had you packed your carry – ons the way the way you were supposed to there would have been no problem. Sure I do not care for the additional charge. Luckily I am able to pack with just a carry on. Remember airlines are entitled to a profit. The average citizen can be rewarded if they are a stock owner not just the CEO.I as a leisure traveler am not forced to travel. Therefore look for the cheapest airfare available. I am not really a profit for the airline.

  • Stewart Sheinfeld

    I think you hurt the anti fee cause by surrendering to the airlines and paying on the way home. You were in a different airport with different agents who would have no idea of what happened on your outbound flight and most likeky would have been able to carry on your bags or worst case gate check at no charge. The airlines charge these fees because they can get away with it. I am elite and don’t pay but I would still rather not check a bag in the interest of saving time on arrival.

  • http://rjtalestold.blogspot.com/ Dick Jordan

    I’m ambivalent about the bag charges being fair across the board to all passengers even though charging for the first bag (and the rest) does seem like a “nickel and dime” approach to fare pricing.

    I also remember the Good Old Days 20-40 years ago when flying was fun. Coach passengers were served hot meals, flight delays and cancellations seemed to be less of a problem, and service was always delivered with a smile. Flying in the Economy cabin back then was almost as good as flying in First Class today.

    I love the “self-loading cargo” description of Coach passengers and hope that our seeming obsession with getting “the lowest fare possible” does not lead to the airlines tearing out all of the seating in Coach, stacking passengers like cordwood, AND, then charging them to check the bags that no longer can be carried on.

  • Carver

    @Justin

    I undersand what you are saying, but you misunderstand the post. Look at it again carefully. No one is questioning that business travelers indvidually spend more. We both agree on that. However, the point is that airline derive approximately three times as much TOTAL revenue from business class passengers as they do from leisure class passengers.

    In other words, if the airlines makes $12 in total revenue, $9 came from business travelers and $3 came from leisure travelers. That’s what that post meant.

    That’s why the airline treat business travelers really well (upgrades, free drinks, refundable tickets, free baggage, etc.) and others like self-loading cargo. Ethics aside, the airlines are fully aware of which passengers are paying the bills.

    Also consider, as a business class passenger, you are more likely to purchase ancilliary services from the airline such as Admiral’s Club membership which means further potential purchases of food, alcohol, etc, instead of buying from the airport concession. You may also purchase meeting space, conference room access, etc.). I’ve personally done all the above.

    None of that revenue is likely to be recognized by a leisure traveler.

  • Dang

    The point is the legacy Airlines are not clear, clean and uniform about the baggage charge and they change the charges so often even theirs employees cannot even get straight about the charges. In Europe EASYJET/RYAN AIR/etc , always charge the checked baggage, are very clear and uniformed about the charge and nobody complaint. The same in Asia with AIR ASIA, BANGKOK AIRWAYS, JETSTAR, etc… It’s all about expectation or contract of service. Be clear about your contract of service and nobody complaint. People complaint because there is “impression” of breach of contract of service.

  • Jennifer (the other one)

    Do you know how much it costs to overnight a 50-lb. parcel with FedEx or UPS? A whole lot more than $25. Handling bags costs money, and it also uses space and weight that could be used for more profitable commercial cargo.

    Carry-on requirements are enough for a week’s worth of clothes and essentials for me, which is why i rarely check a bag. I don’t get why you’d need more than a backpack (personal item) full of stuff to entertain a kid for a few hours. I never did, and that was back when ‘portable electronics’ meant a Sony Walkman.

    If someone needs to bring more stuff than that, fine, but why the outrage over paying for a service you use?

  • LeeAnne

    barbie45 – LOL! Definition of the word “omnibus”:

    Omnibus: a volume of reprinted works of a single author or of works related in interest or theme.

    I do believe you meant “Ombudsman”:

    Ombudsman: a person who acts as a trusted intermediary between an organization and some internal or external constituency while representing the broad scope of constituent interests.

    Too funny!

    In any case, I’m not at all surprised at your post chiding Christopher about his bags. You have made your total dislike for children (and parents, for that matter) eminently obvious in numerous postings on this blog. I’m sure many of us will never forget your infamous “how dare that woman nurse her baby on a plane!” post…as if the poor baby was just supposed to starve for the duration of the flight. And then there were all your other nasty comments to parents who have the audacity to actually bring their children with them on planes that you were on. Oh the injustice!

    Clearly you are not a parent, and have no comprehension of what it means to be one. Christopher did nothing wrong. He explained that every one of his bags was of legal size, and he was not over the limit. The problem was that it APPEARED they were over the limit, because three of the five passengers were small children, and the bags were messily packed (but still within the size limit). The gate agent on the outbound trip was outrageously WRONG in what she did to this family. And what he did on the return was to simply to avoid a similar fate from another child-hating, embittered gate agent.

    Anyway, thanks for giving me my day’s laugh with your creative use of the English language!

  • Jo

    Justin — I think you are miscalculating the % of flyers who travel for business versus leisure travellers (This is just an FF’s assessment of the legacy carriers she flies.). It all has to do with the times you fly — maybe when you flew on a Sunday morning, 90% of the plane would be leisure travelers, but I can assure you it would be exact opposite if you flew Monday morning instead, where there sometimes isn’t even a point to elite status because there are 60 or 70 people ahead of you on the upgrade list or a plane full of elites all wanting to board at the same time. I’d say the percentage of business travelers on most any flight far exceeds just the ~15 seats in first or business class, and when you calculate the fares we pay for regular coach, often booked at the last minute, these fares are at least 2 or 3 times what Ma and Pa Kettle booked 2 months out. Therefore, that one $1200 ticket for the last space in Y on the non-stop because your company needed you there yesterday, definitely makes up for the 8 people who only paid $150 for their tickets. If business travelers weren’t where legacy carriers make their money, then they wouldn’t go out of their way to entice them to fly by offering perks of FF programs. Instead they would go out of their way to entice leisure customers, something we’re not seeing (instead they tend to be driving these away and the only thing to lure them in is the lowest fares).

    Now I’m not necessarily saying that business travelers need priviledges like free baggage since most frequent fliers loath baggage claim, but airlines offer these perks as some kind of enticement to keep their real money-earning passengers from just searching the lowest fare in all cases. Now would most FFs love to go back to the days of free baggage? Sure. Why? Because we hate having to wait while people continually try to pretend the overheads are like a magicians hat and can magically contain endless amounts of junk. And we’d much rather families checked their luggage for free and therefore freed up space in the overheads.

  • EEH

    @ Noah
    “• If American had offered a fare that included one checked bag per passenger, I would have booked it. Why can’t it do that? American could easily have also offered a fare minus the bag alongside the other fare. Frontier does this.”

    –I don’t understand. If American offered a “with one checked bag” ticket, it would just cost $25 more. Why does it matter whether it’s part of the ticket price, or a separate “fee.” Isn’t this an argument IN FAVOR OF a la carte fees??”

    Actually, no. I fly usually fly Frontier and the price difference between the Economy fare and the Classic fare is more than just the checked luggage fee because it also includes other amenities such as advanced seat assignments and directv. I usually just go with the Economy fare and pay the luggage fee to save a few bucks because I really don’t care about the other stuff. If my husband and I travel together, we save more because we just check and pay for one bag for the two of us.

    I’m one of those people who likes to get to the airport pretty early so I really don’t like having to schlep a bag all over the concourse while waiting for my flight. In the pre 9-11 days that wasn’t a problem because I could rent a locker on the concourse to stow my bag but since 9-11, they have disappeared. Now I just check everything and use a slightly larger purse to hold the few valuables I do take like my camera. The upside is that this really makes going through the TSA lines a breeze. I’m not dissing those who do like to use a carry-on as everyone has their own needs and travel-style. This is simply mine. I’ll always check a bag whether it’s free or if I have to pay for it.

    I agree with Carver that those who pay full-fare are totally deserving of the amenities that come with it because the airlines make the most profit from those passengers and many of them do spend a lot of time traveling for business reasons. I’m strictly a leisure traveler and quite honestly, my vacation begins for me once I get to my destination so the plane ride is merely my means of getting there and the less it costs me, the better I like it.

  • y_p_w

    Justin – your numbers are way off. It’s not 15 business class and 150 leisure travelers. There are a lot of business travelers paying full-fare for coach seats. I’d venture that there are typically at least as many full-fare coach flyers as there are business class seats on an average flight. I’ve flown full-fare on some of the legacy carriers before, and I would never pay that much for coach if it was coming out of my own pocket unless it was for an emergency.

    Of course part of it is the business model. I’ve also flown Southwest on business, but for the most part they treat everybody the same and the disparity between rates for leisure fares and full fare isn’t typically as wide (save some of their extreme specials). If I can quote a line from Full Metal Jacket – “To me you are all equally worthless!”

  • http://www.imageswritten.biz Susan

    All I know is that all of these charges are a pain and here is the rub for me. My husband IS an airline pilot and while we as passenger submit to baggage checks and charges and the hassle of being human cargo – there is very likely pounds and pounds and pounds of unscreened and unsearched “cargo” in the plane and that is what drives me crazy. The airlines charge big bucks to haul that cargo – mostly mail and packages and never stop to screen it or X-ray it… that should have us all hopping mad. That “cargo” is there on the word of a preferred shipper or the USPS. Seriously…

  • Carver Farrow

    @Susan

    I don’t know anything about cargo, but I would guess that the difference is that when you mail something, you don’t know when it will travel, on which plane it will travel, etc. Thus making it hard for someone to use cargo as a meaningful instrument of terrorism.

  • Scott

    @ Justin:

    Here are some specifics for you:

    (At an unnamed legacy carrier…)

    The top 9% of the customers account for 44% of the carrier’s revenue.

    Think about that. You can continue to argue that the other 91% represents the “majority” of the customers if you want. But if you do, you will continue to be missing the point. And also consider that ALL the posters on this issue are attempting to point out the flaws in your argument as an indication….

  • http://http/aol.com barbie45

    Lee Anne, I am so glad that my spelling error gave you a laugh for the day. I never said the nerve of women nursing on a plane. I was answering a poll on what annoys you about passengers on board. I feel that a woman who has not the dignity to cover herself up is annoying to me. That is my opinion which I am entitled to. Whether I like children or not is not relevant. They are paying passengers. Well behaved ones are a bonus. The airlines could care less how I feel. I am still in question as to whether or not the luggage could fit in the template. If so fine . If not it should have been checked in.

  • Victoria

    They can try and nickel & dime it the other way too. Once I managed to get a family of 4 into one suitcase that unfortunately weighed 52 pounds. We had a Continental Visa so the first bag fee was waived but then they wanted to charge us $80 for a bag that was 2 lbs over. I could’ve checked 4 bags for free (1 for each of us totalling 200 lbs) but I thought I was doing everyone a favor by packing one bag. I manged to find 2 lbs of stuff to remove and put into the carry on.

    As for the kids, I’ve discovered that my kids (2 & 6) don’t use half the stuff I pack for them to do onboard. I’ve narrowed it all down to a single backpack. I’d say 80% of the time they just end up watching TV or a movie on our iPhone/iPod which takes up virtually no space at all.

  • Shari

    @ Steve – I understand what you’re saying. But where does the “I don’t use it, so I don’t pay for it” logic end? Not everyone on a flight takes a beverage from the drink cart, should those of us who do pay a couple of bucks a drink? How many people use the bathroom during a flight? Maybe 50% of the passengers, at most. Should we then start having to pay for that, too? How about the in-flight music? Or the in-flight entertainment? The magazines in the seat back? It’s very easy to logic your way into charging for every single thing, including things that really ought to be included. Just because one can, doesn’t mean that one should.

    @ Mindy: Up until very recently, my backpack was my purse. It’s what I carried everywhere, that had everything I needed in it. I’ve gotten stopped a couple of times at airports for it, even though it contained nothing more than a regular purse would. After politely explaining that my backpack was my personal item, I’ve been allowed through ok. Thankfully, it seems that more recently, the TSA is starting to realize that backpacks can be personal items, too.

  • Shari

    @ Barbie – I don’t know if you’ve checked, but many bags that fit the dimensions listed on-line don’t fit into the luggage template. Also, the template they provide is much smaller than almost every overhead bin. Unless you’re on a puddle jumper, the bin will be bigger than the template.

  • LeeAnne

    “barbie45″ wrote: “I am still in question as to whether or not the luggage could fit in the template. If so fine . If not it should have been checked in.”

    Barbie dear, did you read the article above? Christopher wrote: “So you can imagine the scene in Orlando: Five passengers, each with two regulation-size bags that were packed – and then repacked – to accommodate my kids’ entertainment needs.”

    Key words in the above sentence: REGULATION-SIZE.

    The airlines have this bizarre practice of posting the acceptable bag dimensions on their website, but then having tempates at the airport that are smaller than those dimensions. Sorry but they can’t have it both ways. If they post dimensions on a website, that is what passengers are going to pack to…and they can’t change the rules once the passenger gets to the airport. That’s known as bait-and-switch. In fact, I’d call that a form of fraud, since they want to CHARGE you for something that their website says is FREE!

    And yes, your dislike of children, and total lack of empathy for parents, does factor into how we read your comments. Most people who have any kind of concept of parenting (and traveling with) small children would understand the challenges involved, and not hold these families to the same rigid standards of business-travel road warriors skilled in living out of a briefcase. But like I said before, I wasn’t surprised to see your comments, given your past history on this blog.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Justin: As y_p_w posted, your numbers are way off…it’s not 12 first class passengers and 138 lesiure travelers in coach (12 first seats and 138 coach seats is the configuration for an US Airways Airbus 320).

    As an elite FF with US Airways, I am usually upgraded to first class at least 75% of the time. However, the 25% of the time I am sitting in coach. The majority (>80) of the seat mates that I encountered in coach are other business travelers. One time, the cost of a flight from PHX to BWI was $ 260 (a two weeks advance notice). About a month later, I had to fly out to BWI on a six-day notice and the cost for the airline ticket was $ 680 and I wasn’t even upgraded to first class (10 of the 12 in first class seats were leisure travelers coming back from a high-end vacation tour).

    When I fly to southern CA, I will get a full fare refundable ticket because you never know about the traffic. Sometimes, I have to fly someone on a day or two notice…which means FC is usually full and it is a full fare.

    By the way, I am planning a vacation for my family and the cost of a first class ticket is $ 17,100 versus 7,600 for a business class seat and $ 2,750 for a seat in economy. In your example, the difference between first class and coach was 3.33 times ($ 1,000 FC fare and $ 300 economy fare). In my real situation, the difference between FC and economy is 6.2 times using the actual fares.

    There have been numerous articles in various publications, e-newsletters, forums, newspapers, TV and etc that what hurt the airlines after 9/11 and continue to hurt the airlines is the lack of business travelers. The hotel industry is hurting as well due to the lack of business travelers.

  • Sarah Di

    Honestly, I highly doubt that 50% of the regulation size carryons out there fit into the airport template. If the rule is that the piece must be 45 linear inches, they can’t specify later that it has to be 8″x15″x22″ and make someone check a bag that is 10″x12″x23″ because it doesn’t fit in the template. Both bags are regulation size and 45 linear inches, but one fits in the template and the other doesn’t.

    LeeAnne, I agree. They can’t change the rules at the airport when they are published in advance of travel, whether the specific bag fits in the laughably small template or not.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Sarah – ‘If the rule is that the piece must be 45 linear inches, they can’t specify later that it has to be 8″x15″x22″ and make someone check a bag that is 10″x12″x23″ because it doesn’t fit in the template. Both bags are regulation size and 45 linear inches, but one fits in the template and the other doesn’t.”

    That is why I carry a flexible tape measurer with me along with a print out from the airline’s website on their baggage policy stating that the piece must be 45 linear inches. No one has question me about the carry-on bags in the last 8 years but I am ready in case if they do ask me and my carry-on bag can’t fit in the template.

  • Ed

    My big problem with charging for bags is that when bags were carried free by the airline as part of a person’s ticket for carrying that person and their personal belongings, then they could dictate that a lost bag has this specific value.

    But when the airline chooses to separate out the price for carrying baggage, then the baggage no longer is part of the carriage agreement of the ticket, it becomes drayage and should be subject to rules and reimbursement regarding the shipment of parcels. Therefore if your package is lost while in possession of the airline or it’s affiliates, then you would be able to make a much larger monetary claim to replace the items in your parcel.
    IANAL

    Ed

  • Carver

    @Shari

    The difference between a bathroom and a beverage is that the bathroom is a fixed part of the plane. The economic term is fixed cost. Whereas the beverage is optional.

  • Joe Farrell

    @Carver – if you want soap, and paper and paper towels, the toilet to flush and the stuff in it to stay down and not swirl around your feet, the lav is not a fixed cost. The unit itself is fixed in cost but keeping it operating is as much a cost as the can of coke you get . . .

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