Remember Marilyn Parver, the grandmother who was detained after she refused to delete a video she had lawfully taped on a JetBlue flight? Well, after weeks of back-and-forth with the airline, she’s released the incriminating tape.
Here it is:
On second thought, it’s not that incriminating. It’s a passenger arguing with another one about a child that is apparently misbehaving.
Passenger 1: Get the hell out of here.
Passenger 2: Excuse me!
Passenger 1: Stop!
Passenger 2: Can’t you control him?
Passenger 1: I don’t wanna control him.
I’ve seen this before. It’s nothing.
But what JetBlue sent to Parver … that’s something.
In a rambling letter to her, the airline disclosed that it does indeed have a rule against people taking photographs on planes.
JetBlue’s policy above 10,000 feet is to request passengers to discontinue videotaping or photographing, particularly the cockpit area or inflight procedures.
In light of this, our crew decided to identify the passenger who had been taking photographs and request that he/she delete the photographs.
(Curiously, JetBlue doesn’t feel bound by its own policy. It videotapes the interior of its cabins — below and above 10,000 feet.)
The letter also accused Parver of being “argumentative, condescending and belligerent” and refusing to obey the instructions of crewmembers.
Parver sent me the letter on Monday evening and denied she had acted inappropriately. She also questioned JetBlue’s “policy” on photographs, noting that passengers were not informed of this rule when they boarded.
I suggested that Parver publish the videotape online. By Tuesday morning, she had.
I was at an all-day meeting yesterday, but I noticed that my friends over at Photography is Not a Crime had an insightful post on this, which included some valid points about JetBlue’s flight attendants disregarding their own policy.
I think JetBlue could have handled this differently. Rather than sending a lengthy, defensive letter to the customer, the airline could have tried to patch things up. It’s obvious that she wasn’t taping the flight deck for nefarious purposes. Arguments between passengers such as the one she taped are pretty common these days.
The crew overreacted and the company overreacted. Its letter to Parver has just reopened old wounds.
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Chris,
This for sure needs to move up on Digg :). I’ll help!
Tim
Checked out that link to Photography Is Not A Crime, the fact that JetBlue sponsered its own photography contest awhile back is just plain HILARIOUS.
JetBlue used to be my favorite airline, but the way they are handling this situation with Ms. Parver is appaling. They are either lying out of their teeth to avoid a simple apology or they are in constant violation of their own policies and possibly some Federal ones as well (ie their assertion that they attempted to showe the Flight Attendent Manual to non-secure personel as detailed on PINAC).
Let’s see…
If I am on a flight and there is an opportunity for a great photo of a beautiful sunset out of the airplane window, JebBlue has a policy that prohibits me from taking such photos?
Now I know why, no matter what the ticket price, I’ll continue to avoid their company.
No bargain is worth doing business with such an organization [using the word very loosely].
So why didn’t JETBLUE do something about the bad kid???
There are all too many parents who think their demonspawn needn’t be controlled and that they should be allowed to do anything in a public place.
JetBlue should be focusing on the source of the problem, not the reaction to it.
I was actually thinking of flying JefBlue next month, but I’m having serious second thoughts about getting onboard with them.
The customers who were inconvenienced by the kid’s poor behavior should be compenstated and the woman who doesn’t “wanna” control her kid should not be allowed to fly until the gets her head around the fact that she does not have the inalienable right to have her kid disturb other passengers.
It is not that unusual for airlines to have restrictions on photography inflight. I know that there is something in Qantas inflight magazine about it, it is mostly related to photography for commercial purposes, but it is pretty broad. So broad in fact that when I was flying from Sydney to Buenos Aires years ago (when they still flew that route) I made a point of asking permission to shoot video as we flew over the Andes. Having said that though, JetBlue did overreact, if they had said nothing, this whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, instead, here we are months later blogging about it. Talk about a public relations gaffe.
Dude, I totally agree with Bill on this. The KID is what started the whole fight in the first place, why didn’t they take care of THE KID first?
Jet Blue needs to learn a few lessons in PR.
Their behavior was shameful!!!
Jet Blue just lost my business. These people are nuts.
Not sure why JetBlue even made a stink, as this was a situation between two of their customers and had no real negative implications on the airline or its staff. The attendants seem to handle the altercation pretty well too. Maybe the airline could embrace this and offer traveling parents with a list of tips to help keep your children entertained while flying the friendly skies.
Boy…the JetBlue issues keep mounting up. See Chris’ other recent post about their promise to delayed passengers…
It has long bothered me that they are one of the only airlines that won’t let you see the available seats until AFTER you have purchased your ticket!
What, exactly, do you expect JetBlue to do to control the kid?
Talk about a great way to escalate the situation.
@Bob – yep – especially when you know that if they DID try to do something about the kid kicking the back of the seat they’d be dealing with Jesse Jackson screaming how they discipline the rainbow among us but not the unified light source from which the rainbow is refracted.
Obtuse, yes, but the video speaks for itself.
Don’t mess with their pilots either:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/broward/story/708280.html
———
2 JetBlue pilots charged in attack on cabbie
BY KIRSTIN MAGUIRE
kmaguire@MiamiHerald.com
Two JetBlue pilots have been charged with two counts of theft and one of felony battery after allegedly attacking a Miami cab driver over a $9 fare after a ride from a Fort Lauderdale strip club to a Subway restaurant, police said.
Anyone have an on-board video of the JetBlue flight that made an emergency landing a couple of years back? The unique thing was that the passengers could watch on their seat-back TVs the live news coverage with video of their plane’s approach and possible impending deaths. It made a good SNL sketch.
(What button do you push to see this video on this page–I can’t see it?)
Guess its not a good day for jet blue…CBS TV
Passenger: JetBlue Attendant Sexually Harassed Me
Tells CBS 2 HD Employee Showed Naked Pictures Of Himself, Made Lewd Comments, Grabbed Victim’s Buttocks
http://wcbstv.com/seenat11/jetblue.flight.attendant.2.830613.html
Companies like JetBlue are indicative of the political split in this country. The airline was set up by strongly partisan Democrats (note the “Blue” in the name that came out of the “Red vs. Blue States” in the 2000 election). JetBlue was known at one point for good customer service. Everything gets old after being in business a few years including customer service.
Support businesses that provide good customer service. Doesn’t sound like JetBlue falls into that category any longer.
“Companies like JetBlue are indicative of the political split in this country. The airline was set up by strongly partisan Democrats (note the “Blue” in the name that came out of the “Red vs. Blue States” in the 2000 election)”
First, your argument is completely ridiculous. JetBlue is somehow a Democratic airline and ergo, all Democrats provide poor customer service? Are you completely insane? Second, you just pulled this garbage out of your rear end. JetBlue was named well before the 2000 election. The airline was in existence under a different name and in a different form even before then.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E3D9163FF936A25754C0A96F958260
There was no political slant to this blog entry whatsoever. Go away.
Bob….
What did I expect Jetblue to do about the kid? Tell the mother to control her kid – or boot the both of ‘em off.
I’ve been observiing with interest the “bad kid” thing lately. Although sometimes it is to do with illness, or some deficiency in enzymes (ADD for example), theres a lot that is due to just poor parenting. Kid goes nuts over wanting something, parent hangs in there, eventually relents, kid learns to be more stubborn, etc.
Another thing that happens is the parent develops a blindness where they don’t see how bad their own kid is.
Kicking the kid and the parent off the aircraft will either encourage the parent to be a better parent, or encourage others to fly the airline because they do what’s right.
so what’s happening to Jet Blue? They used to be such a good airline! Now every time I turn around, I read yet another negative occurance that involves Jet Blue pushing their weight around.
When Jet Blue first came onto the scene, I commended them for being the “Maverick” and bucking the system to offer passengers an alternative to cattle-call that other airlines offer. In fact, I gave them preferential status and flew them even if it was more expensive…and I didn’t even bat an eye-lash when they asked that we help them “clean the plane” by removing our trash from our seats…
Now, I am hearing that Jet Blue is charging for blankets and pillows, detaining passengers on their airlines for hours on the runways, mistreating passengers…You know what? Jet Blue is just like every other money-grubbing business out there…and I don’t think I will fly them any longer…Sorry Jet Blue…they only way I’ll fly you is if you offer the cheapest ticket to my destination…no longer are you my preferred airline
Ed
web/gadget guru
A little FYI for all of you clueless people….it is against FAA regulation for ANY customer to video tape flight attendants regardless if they are doing the safety demo, going through the aisles passing out drinks, or trying to calm down psgrs during a disagreement. This woman was not obeying orders from the inflight crew who was just doing their job & this old bag was lucky their wasn’t any FAA person on board because she would have gotten a hefty fine instead of being taken off the flight to be questioned.
I was just on a Virgin America flight, and there was a guy who kept getting up and videotaping what looked like the back of his seat (where the entertainment system is located). He kept walked back in the aisle and stopping right by my seat, and it was damn annoying. Anyway, one of the flight attendants stopped in the aisle as the guy was filming to make sure he didn’t interrupt the shot. When the guy lowered his camera, the attendant asked him what he why he was filming. I couldn’t hear all of it, but it sounded like it had something to do with the touch-screen system. I don’t really know for sure, but the attendant seemed to accept the guy’s reason and said he just had to ask any time someone did something like that.
I see people take pictures on airplanes, as well as video, all the time– especially if they have young children with them (“I NEED TO DOCUMENT BILLY’S FIRST FLIGHT!!!” *Gag*), so I’ve never been aware of any policy against video or photography on an aircraft. I can perhaps understand the policy against filming a crew member, though, so that may be why this woman got into trouble.
Just felt like sharing my recent little on-board filming experience with you. :P
This is straight from the FAA website:
“In general, you may not use any electronic device on any aircraft that is being operated under instrument flight rules (IFR), or on any commercial flight. However, the following are permitted:
Portable voice recorders
Hearing aids
Heart pacemakers
Electronic shavers
Radios and other portable electronic devices, such as computers and headphones (regular or noise cancelling), may be permitted if the operator of the aircraft determines they will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system. Please check with the crew if your device (i.e., handheld GPS unit) is not covered in the passenger briefing. Note that each airline and pilot-in-command has final authority on the operation of electronic devices onboard any aircraft at any time. ”
The last line of this rule states that the airline/pilot has final authority. Also it is a federal offense to not comply with Flight Attendant instructions. Regardless of the situation that was happening on the aircraft Ms. Parver should have complied when the Flight Attendant requested her to turn it off. As far as the letter she later received-I do believe Jetblue missed their chance to gain Ms. Parver’s loyalty back as a customer. As far as the situation with the misbehaving child-The customer should have gone straight to the flight attendant to voice her complaint-not to the Parent of the child. All that happened was an escalation in which Ms. Parver became a rubbernecking bystander. This is not meant to insult Ms. Parver as I am sure that everyone else was thinking the same things she was. Also, the Flight attendant, seeing the situation, went to deal with what they saw as an argument between 2 adults. When an argument breaks out on an airplane I would hope that the agressive situations would be dealt with asap-as some people are already nervous flyers and contention just adds to their anxiety.
>>The last line of this rule states that the airline/pilot has final authority. Also it is a federal offense to not comply with Flight Attendant instructions. Regardless of the situation that was happening on the aircraft Ms. Parver should have complied when the Flight Attendant requested her to turn it off. <<
Please correct if wrong, but it my understanding that Ms. Parver turned off the recorder when asked. What she did not comply with was the unlawful request of the flight attendant to delete the recording. In a very basic nutshell, once the recording is made it becomes Ms. Parver’s property and the flight attendant has no standing to insist on the destruction of that property.
ONCE AGAIN…. psgrs are NOT allowed to video tape flight attendants on the plane & this is an FAA regulation, it is listed in the flight attendants manual which is made up by the FAA!! In the video you can cleary see a flight attendant trying to calm the situation so regardless if this lady was video taping the argument between the two people over the child or not, since the flight attendant was also in the shot she should have not been video taping & once she was informed to turn off the camera she could have complied. Just another example why most people are just clueless a**holes…
Mo,
You’re the only clueless a$$hole.
There is no evidence that it is against FAA rules to videotape while in flight. And she had long turned off her camera when she was approached by the flight attendant, so it’s not like she refused to turn the camera off.
The issue is whether or not the flight attendant had authority to make her delete the video.
But the fact is, a police officer does not have the authority to make you delete a video without a court order.
So why would a flight attendant?
Perhaps JetBlue should spend less on marketing and more on PR or customer service training
Obedient children obey rules that are understandable by children. Surely, those same rules should be understandable by responsible parents, flight attendants, etc.
I have children. When they fly (and they’ve been flying since they were still in car seats) they were *not* allowed to scream, yell, thump the seat, peer over the back of the seat, make loud noises, throw things, run around, etc.
The one concession we made was if one was particularly antsy, we’d walk him quietly to the bathroom, then back. That was it. Otherwise, they stayed quiet and seated.
I honestly think that there should be a list that flight attendants could work from, published to the public, of acceptable/unacceptable behaviors by children. Then those should be enforced.
I found it really difficult, on a recent flight, to justify to my own children my standards of behavior. A mother with 7 children was on the plane, and didn’t say a single word to control her kids. Her son was conversing noisily about video games with a kid in a different row, her little girls were constantly getting up and wandering around the plane, etc.
Finally, my son leaned over to me and said quietly in my ear “Those kids are really annoying, aren’t they?”
I know that I’m going to get responses of “Well, your kids are just really easy”, which makes me laugh, since my kids are both special needs kids, and tend to be loud and kinetic.
Courtesy and thoughtfulness can be taught, even to difficult kids, and my children are living proof. The way some parents let their kids run amok on airplanes just amazes me.
There are no LAWS stating a passenger cannot photograph or video tape on an airplane. Police often say you can’t video tape them, but there is no law saying you can’t.
JetBlue is not a government. They are an AIRLINE. Yes, rules in flight are a little different, but being an airline does NOT exempt people from basic rights. JetBlues anti-filming policy could even be said to be unconstitutional, to a point, since airplanes aren’t exactly private property. It would be like a bus driver or a taxi driver saying you couldn’t film in their vehicle, which would be absurd, of course.
I really don’t get why there isn’t a Passenger Bill of Rights by now… airlines get away with EVERYTHING. Quite tired of it…
The lady with the kid is brain dead. I hope child welfare has investigated her in depth.
I agree – JetBlue is more concerned about a videotape than unruly passengers on a flight -what kind of an airline is this?
The parent needs to control her kid, plain and simple. I’m tired of all the rotten brats that are “allowed” by their parents to be rude, disrespectful and unconsciencious. Some people just seem to think that because they bought a ticket, they can do whatever they want. I see it all the time in public places, restaurants, the movies, etc. It’s the same as being a good neighbor. Stop your dog from barking, keep the noise down after 11pm, and control your kids! What ever happened to good manners….
JetBlue apparently disregarded its own policy against photos when it sponsored a highly-publicized photography contest, with Google Maps, that encouraged passengers to take photos while on a JetBlue flight. “Customers can enter the contest by visiting http://www.jetblue.com/google and submitting their favorite photo taken from the window of any JetBlue flight scheduled between June 5 and September 3.” (excerpted from the contest’s press release: http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=131045&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=1011379&highlight= )
Yes, the contest asked passengers to take photos from the window, but any use of a camera inside an airborne airplane would be in violation of JetBlue’s policy as quoted above: “JetBlue’s policy above 10,000 feet is to request passengers to discontinue videotaping or photographing….”
JetBlue, hypocrite that it is, also invites the public to view the winning photos, clearly taken from airborne flights: http://www.jetblue.com/deals/google/
I enjoy flying JetBlue but do wish the airline (and all airlines) would create and enforce a policy regarding disruptive children. I have flown with a cat on JetBlue on many long, cross-country flights, and was once asked to bring my distressed and meowing cat into the bathroom with me until I could calm her down. I appreciated the flight attendant’s suggestion and was able to diffuse the situation without disrupting my fellow passengers. …A similar policy should apply for upset or poorly behaved children.
If you can’t control your kids on a plane, I can. But it’s better for a parent to control their kid out of love.
If I acted like a child on a plane, (screaming, kicking the seat in front of me or getting out of my own), I would be arrested under the patriot act and charged with disorderly conduct if not essentially as being a terrorist. If I can be arrested, the flight attendants can tell the parents to discipline their kids. The parents should be arrested for using their children as a tool to commit the same crime I would have been arrested for committing.
Right now it’s a crap-shoot when a traveler gets onto a plane. Will it be a comfortable flight or a nightmare? It not only varies from airline to airline, but also from flight crew to flight crew.
Most of the time (I hope) the problems are caused by just 1 or 2 passengers; sometimes the problems are caused by weather, mechanical problems or the failure of a service vendor the airline uses; but sometimes the problems are caused or aggravated by the flight crew. The airline industry seems to have problems dealing with problems consistently, logically and fairly — it should not be left totally in the hands of the individual airlines!
We need an official and publicly available FAA “Airline Passenger Bill of Rights” which lists passenger rights as well as the limitation of those rights and the responsibilities of all passengers. Unlike a bus or cab, if a plane passenger has a problem, it is not feasible to stop and let them leave after the plane has left the gate — so some restrictions and responsibilities may be necessary for safety & security. The basic tenants of such a bill of rights would place safety & security first but should also prevent disorderly conduct by any passenger of any age — the rights of any passenger should be limited when they impose upon the rights of other passengers. Parents traveling with infants or young children should be provided with a separate copy of the rules and reminded that they are responsible for their kids! The airlines should have extremely limited flexibility in enforcing the rights. The airlines should also be prepared to enforce the passengers’ rights. If all else fails disorderly passengers should be physically restrained — if physically restrained passengers remain disorderly by shouting or screaming — medically safe gags should be used. In the event of disorderly conduct on a flight occurs the airline should be required to have one or two FAA-mandated videos (with sound) made of the conduct and the steps taken to resolve the problem — that would help prevent airlines & flight attendants from abusing their authority.
Part of every “boarding pass” (including on-line customer printed boarding passes) should include a brief “Problem Report” which passengers can deposit in FAA secured drop boxes in the airport at the end of their flight. If the FAA gets a dozen reports of a disorderly or dangerous conduct problem on one flight — they can investigate — it should not be left up to the airlines to decide how to deal with some problems. Airline related trouble reports (like no snacks, poor service, etc) could be passed onto the airline without further FAA involvement.
Let’s remember, that for every bad flight with a child there are 4 or 5 good flights with children on them. Flying round-trip to Las Vegas this weekend I encountered children each way. There were 2 boys flying unaccompanied who were joys to listen to as they spoke with the adult sitting next to them. Yesterday I sat behind a 6-month old on her first flight who didn’t make a sound other than the giggles when her daddy played peek-a-boo.
I’ve also sat next to children who I would have gladly withheld the oxygen mask if needed.
I was on a flight once with a woman and her three unruly and obnoxious kids. The mama refused to do or say anything to control her kids. The situation was so bad that people sitting 10 rows behind the family were standing up and yelling at the mom, “Do something about your kids!”. I thought a riot was going to break out on board. Finally, the stewardess – bless her heart — walked up and said to the mom sternly, “If you don’t do something about this, I’m going to have to.” I have no idea what she thought she could do, but she put the fear of the Lord into the mom, and things got better for the rest of the flight. As we were disembarking, I had to walk past the mom outside the gate. She was weeping and telling her side of the story to her waiting family. I heard her tell them how mean the stewardess was, as if she was the bad guy in this drama. I myself wanted to give the stewardess a medal. I have no doubt the mom wrote a letter to the president of the airline complaining about the stewardess. No good deed goes unpunished.
It is unfortunate that natural selection has failed the human race.
Like most things in the Universe, this whole problem could be taken care of with Duct Tape.
I suppose it is important, in the case of a flight like Judy’s, to write the airline telling how happy one is about the Flight Attendant taking care of the situation, just in case the “bad parent” writes in.
Since this thing came out, I’ve had several flights and have reaffirmed my opinion that it is just about always the fault of the parent, whether it is for their deeds that day, or from their general parenting over the past months and years.
Regrettably, I’ve even seen “bad parent syndrome” done by family and friends. It is so predictable. Kid wants something. Parent says no. Kid makes a fuss. Parent relents so kid won’t make a fuss. Is it really that hard?
When you make a decision to say no, stick by it. No matter how much the kid makes a fuss. And get into this habit long before you even think of taking that kid on a plane.
Any parent who is continually out stubborned by a 3 year old is doomed to failure.
Why do we have to have everything on tape or film or video? It’s not enough to just live? And be? F Light attendants have hard enough jobs without their every move being documented.
wow, just wow. this leaves me pretty much speachless..
well, i think that the airline in question are just trying to find something to nitpick about. what mrs.Parver chooses to videotape is her own right. its not like she was trying to put anyone in danger… and unless the flight attendant in question was allergic to video camera’s she/he has no right to stop anyone.
now as for what was on the video itself, i can understand why the airline doesnt want it posted anywhere. as anyone can clearly see the flight was high stress, low civility and VERY low coping skills on part of the male, female, and attendent involved. i mean an attendant yelling EXCUSE ME can hardly be called attempting to keep the peace.
now as a parent. its very disappointing to see that the mother involved clearly said the words, i dont even want to control him. any half decent mother knows that if you want to defuse a tantrum, defuse it early. ESPECIALLY in a cramped area with many poeple. its not right for the child to be put into this mess becuase at the age of 7 or so(idle speculation) they easily melt down in new surroundings. the male involved should’ve been a bit more patient, the parent should’ve exerted proper control over her offspring, nad the flight attendant shouldnt’ have just stood there and said excuse me, the flight attendant should’ve tried to move either the man, or the parent/child, or a good dose of motrin (which i have never tried, as my child loves planes and is too interested in looking otu the window to pull a tantrum) but i hear it is the medication of angels for rowdy children on long flights.
I hope that Mrs. Parver’s problems with this particular airline are over as she was guilty of nothing more then being bored on a plane with 2 grown adults and 1 child were having temper tantrums.
Any updates on this case? I really hope grandma sued JetBlue’s a$$!
Oh my! This is what happens when people are stressed out, annoyed, aggravated, etc…Traveling with children can be precarious, especially if they’re scared or crabby. Perhaps going Greyhound or taking train is a better alternative; at least you’re on the ground versus being 10,000 or more feet in the air!
I don’t believe that any one should video tape other individuals in flight…don’t they have a life and any consideration about privacy of others and courtesy in-flight. Everyone in-flight is forced to be in other people’s space for the duration of the trip and altercations happen… certainly no one wishes to be filmed during an uncomfortable situation. Who would even wish to do that? It’s voyurism & a “busy body” getting into other people’s lives. Who would even video tape a boring in flight trip….haven’t they ever flown before and don’t they respect others privacy???????????????????? Go figure!
P.S. I hope said individuals sue “busy body” and “medler grandma” and/or Jetblue does too (no rhyme intended).
P.P.S.: Jetblue is good to get rid of trouble makers like”grandma”; moreover, since it is against the flight rules and laws to film in-flight, they have the right to request deleting the film since it was not authorized in the first place! Did grandma also film some one vomiting from air sickness? How about some one having a heart attack or snoring? Come on & get real! Grandma needs a good book to read and to be taught courtesy for others. Perhaps gramdma could become part of the “Paparazzi” that stock famous people and get paid for her indiscretions (I would be ASHAMED to be her grand child).
I hope my comments that are “awaiting moderation” isn’t because I don’t buy grandma’s story and that I disagree with others who don’t respect other peoples privacy in uncomfortable in-flight situations where one doesn’t have control of who is sitting next to you (and evidently people who are filming you in uncomfortable situations).
Classic “Streisand effect”… now everyone will know how crappy
Jet Blue manages their cabins, *because* of their effort
to hide it. That kid & mother should be banned.