Comments on: Foreign ATM sucks $391 out of a traveler’s account — and his bank lets it http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/ Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott's site. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Scott http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15282 Scott Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:42:14 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15282 I have taken out cash in Sweden, Belgium, England, France, Netherlands, Czech Republic, St. Martin, China and Canada and have never had a problem. It's a sad statement, but the only place where I have had this happen is right here in the states with my own bank's ATM. It took almost a week for me to get my money back. Many of the foreign consumer protection laws are stricter than here in the US. If this happens to you, call your bank immediately, and go to the bank the next day and report it. I have taken out cash in Sweden, Belgium, England, France, Netherlands, Czech Republic, St. Martin, China and Canada and have never had a problem. It’s a sad statement, but the only place where I have had this happen is right here in the states with my own bank’s ATM. It took almost a week for me to get my money back. Many of the foreign consumer protection laws are stricter than here in the US. If this happens to you, call your bank immediately, and go to the bank the next day and report it.

]]> By: Kate Koziol http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15274 Kate Koziol Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:34:38 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15274 It is situations such as these that make prepaid foreign currency cards a much better choice than using debit or credit cards. With those cards, you don't know what you'll end up paying You can get prepaid cards in British Pounds and Euros that are not tied to your bank account and the exchange rate is set without any hidden fees. Travelex is that first to market these earlier this year. It is situations such as these that make prepaid foreign currency cards a much better choice than using debit or credit cards. With those cards, you don’t know what you’ll end up paying You can get prepaid cards in British Pounds and Euros that are not tied to your bank account and the exchange rate is set without any hidden fees. Travelex is that first to market these earlier this year.

]]> By: Jim http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15271 Jim Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:11:29 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15271 I had the same thing happen in Borneo, except that I was able to get it resolved quickly through the bank there and my credit union at home. Thanks to internet banking, I knew about the double-debit the next day and was able to report it and get it straightened out while I was there. I had the same thing happen in Borneo, except that I was able to get it resolved quickly through the bank there and my credit union at home. Thanks to internet banking, I knew about the double-debit the next day and was able to report it and get it straightened out while I was there.

]]> By: Karina Lok http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15268 Karina Lok Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:48:18 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15268 I had my atm card gobbled up in Lucca, Italy while trying to obtain $200. When my card disappeared without even a message, I panicked. Adjacent to the ATM machine was a bank (affiliated) and went in to explain the situation...no card; no money....Of course, NO ONE spoke English and I had to explain over and over again what had happened. I had a xerox copy of my card which I showed to a bank officer. He thought I was from Japan even though I showed him my American passport and spoke only English. Frustrated, I called my bank in California and explained the situation. I was told to call back to see if the transaction had been processed. Needless to say, this Italian bank had never seen the anger from one senior Asian lady. The next day, I called my bank and was told no transaction had taken place. I returned to the Lucca bank with phone numbers of my bank in the U.S. and then, a very nice lady ran up to me with my card...apparently during off and on thunderstorms during the previous day, electricity had gone out and hampered my transaction at the ATM. Now, I never use any ATM's in America or in travelling.... I had my atm card gobbled up in Lucca, Italy while trying to obtain $200. When my card disappeared without even a message, I panicked. Adjacent to the ATM machine was a bank (affiliated) and went in to explain the situation…no card; no money….Of course, NO ONE spoke English and I had to explain over and over again what had happened. I had a xerox copy of my card which I showed to a bank officer. He thought I was from Japan even though I showed him my American passport and spoke only English. Frustrated, I called my bank in California and explained the situation. I was told to call back to see if the transaction had been processed. Needless to say, this Italian bank had never seen the anger from one senior Asian lady. The next day, I called my bank and was told no transaction had taken place. I returned to the Lucca bank with phone numbers of my bank in the U.S. and then, a very nice lady ran up to me with my card…apparently during off and on thunderstorms during the previous day, electricity had gone out and hampered my transaction at the ATM. Now, I never use any ATM’s in America or in travelling….

]]> By: Edward Hasbrouck http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15256 Edward Hasbrouck Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:09:42 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15256 Most banks in the USA are under the jurisdiction of the federal Comptroller of Currency. Most consumers don't know this, and most banks are eager to avoid getting a bad record of complaints, much less enforcement action. Make a formal written complaint to the Comptroller of Currency (certified mail, return receipt requested), with a copy to the bank's legal department at their headquarters. You'll probably get a settlement offer from the bank before the CoC can act on the complaint, so that the bank can tell the CoC the complaint is settled and withdrawn, and avoid a record of a complaint against them being sustained. Then you can decide whether you want to find another bank. Many banks have arbitration causes prohibiting you from suing the bank, but a complaint to a federal regulator like the CoC isn't precluded by such an arbitration clause. Most banks in the USA are under the jurisdiction of the federal Comptroller of Currency. Most consumers don’t know this, and most banks are eager to avoid getting a bad record of complaints, much less enforcement action. Make a formal written complaint to the Comptroller of Currency (certified mail, return receipt requested), with a copy to the bank’s legal department at their headquarters. You’ll probably get a settlement offer from the bank before the CoC can act on the complaint, so that the bank can tell the CoC the complaint is settled and withdrawn, and avoid a record of a complaint against them being sustained.

Then you can decide whether you want to find another bank.

Many banks have arbitration causes prohibiting you from suing the bank, but a complaint to a federal regulator like the CoC isn’t precluded by such an arbitration clause.

]]> By: Sebastian Okser http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15189 Sebastian Okser Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:15:14 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15189 @ Jasper: I agree that customers shouldn't have to worry. But at this point in his situation he will get very little done by sitting around and hoping that the problem resolves itself. I'm just expressing my opinion from my experience in the country where this problem has occurred. Finland banks are very responsible and I have never had a problem getting responses from the banks. I am merely trying to offer my assistance by getting the appropriate contact information. I could spend hours telling you about bank fraud I've experienced through out the world and none of the problems ever resolved themselves. It always took some persistence but eventually things get worked out. Experiences like this one are why I always take my ATM receipts. If you can prove that on a certain time and day that no money was dispensed then it should be very easy to get your money back. But I do however agree with your statement of why the banks are collapsing. It is this lack of customer service and security that caused all of their problems. @ Jasper: I agree that customers shouldn’t have to worry. But at this point in his situation he will get very little done by sitting around and hoping that the problem resolves itself. I’m just expressing my opinion from my experience in the country where this problem has occurred. Finland banks are very responsible and I have never had a problem getting responses from the banks. I am merely trying to offer my assistance by getting the appropriate contact information.

I could spend hours telling you about bank fraud I’ve experienced through out the world and none of the problems ever resolved themselves. It always took some persistence but eventually things get worked out. Experiences like this one are why I always take my ATM receipts. If you can prove that on a certain time and day that no money was dispensed then it should be very easy to get your money back.

But I do however agree with your statement of why the banks are collapsing. It is this lack of customer service and security that caused all of their problems.

]]> By: Jasper http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15184 Jasper Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:25:10 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15184 @ Sebastian: It is not the customer's job to protect his money. That's what he put it in a bank for. It is unacceptable that he would do his bank's job. It is this attitude of lack of responsibility that got all the banks in trouble. They need to do their job, or you should fire them, and take your money to another bank. @ Sebastian: It is not the customer’s job to protect his money. That’s what he put it in a bank for. It is unacceptable that he would do his bank’s job. It is this attitude of lack of responsibility that got all the banks in trouble. They need to do their job, or you should fire them, and take your money to another bank.

]]> By: Sebastian Okser http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15173 Sebastian Okser Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:43:03 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15173 I live in Finland and I also have a B of A account. I can't tell you the countless problems I've encountered around the world with my cards from every bank you can imagine. But in Finland fraud is taken very seriously and I would account your situation to a banking error rather than fraud. My suggestion is to contact the Finnish bank that you took the money from. If it wasn't from a bank was it from an R-Kioski or an Otto machine outside of a store? I live in Finland and I also have a B of A account. I can’t tell you the countless problems I’ve encountered around the world with my cards from every bank you can imagine. But in Finland fraud is taken very seriously and I would account your situation to a banking error rather than fraud. My suggestion is to contact the Finnish bank that you took the money from. If it wasn’t from a bank was it from an R-Kioski or an Otto machine outside of a store?

]]> By: Carver Clark Farrow http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15168 Carver Clark Farrow Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:25:13 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15168 Outrageous as this is, its hardly fraud. I wouldn't interrupt my vacation over this. Keep the receipt, call my bank, and I would expect this to be resolved very quickly, or I'd find a new bank. Outrageous as this is, its hardly fraud. I wouldn’t interrupt my vacation over this. Keep the receipt, call my bank, and I would expect this to be resolved very quickly, or I’d find a new bank.

]]> By: Becky http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15163 Becky Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:14:39 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15163 I have a similar story while traveling in Italy in the mid 90s. But a much better outcome from my bank. I was never able to get an ATM to work for me while in Italy. On my last attempt, after it looked like the transaction was going to go through, it issued a receipt citing a malfunction and the transaction wasn't processed. When I returned home, I discovered the transaction had, indeed been debited from my account. I went to speak with my bank, a small locally owned institution. They told me they had to investigate, but would credit my account with the condition it might be debited again upon the findings of the investigation. About a week later I received a letter stating they found my claim to be true, acknowledged my account had already been credited and thanked me for my business. The best service I have ever received from a bank. I have put my faith in small, locally owned instiitutions ever since. I have a similar story while traveling in Italy in the mid 90s. But a much better outcome from my bank. I was never able to get an ATM to work for me while in Italy. On my last attempt, after it looked like the transaction was going to go through, it issued a receipt citing a malfunction and the transaction wasn’t processed. When I returned home, I discovered the transaction had, indeed been debited from my account. I went to speak with my bank, a small locally owned institution. They told me they had to investigate, but would credit my account with the condition it might be debited again upon the findings of the investigation. About a week later I received a letter stating they found my claim to be true, acknowledged my account had already been credited and thanked me for my business. The best service I have ever received from a bank. I have put my faith in small, locally owned instiitutions ever since.

]]> By: Joe Farrell http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15162 Joe Farrell Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:58:49 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15162 David has a receipt that states there was a malfunction. What am I missing? I presume he retained the ORIGINAL receipt and only sent a copy to US Bank. This one is simple: US Bank is your creditor when you deposit funds. THEY were the ones who debited your account. No need for regulators or bank officials or anything else. Small claims court. Bring the receipt, bring your bank statement. They are no likely to appear. Take the judgement along with an execution to ANY branch and seize some money. Just remember one thing - you had best take ALL of your other money out or they may start charging you fees and then try to recover the amount that you seized from your own bank account - read that agreement carefully! David has a receipt that states there was a malfunction. What am I missing?

I presume he retained the ORIGINAL receipt and only sent a copy to US Bank.

This one is simple: US Bank is your creditor when you deposit funds. THEY were the ones who debited your account. No need for regulators or bank officials or anything else. Small claims court. Bring the receipt, bring your bank statement. They are no likely to appear. Take the judgement along with an execution to ANY branch and seize some money.

Just remember one thing – you had best take ALL of your other money out or they may start charging you fees and then try to recover the amount that you seized from your own bank account – read that agreement carefully!

]]> By: Jim http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15161 Jim Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:31:25 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15161 Why should someone disrupt their vacation when the machine already told them that the charge would be reversed? What confidence do you have that telling a person would have prevented the error? Resolving this crime is Dave's bank's responsibility. Why should someone disrupt their vacation when the machine already told them that the charge would be reversed? What confidence do you have that telling a person would have prevented the error?

Resolving this crime is Dave’s bank’s responsibility.

]]> By: Jasper http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15160 Jasper Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:00:35 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15160 The ball was dropped here by David's bank. What interest does David's bank have to not side with him? If I were David, I'd take my business elsewhere. I've done so in the past, when an ATM (of my own bank) ate my pass without reason, and my bank was slow giving me a new pass. After a couple of weeks, I just walked in, make them pay me out in cash (very inconvenient because you never have a nice round amount in your accounts) and walked out. The best thing was that they simply did not understand what was going on. "But Sir, we sent you a new pass, not?" "Yeah, after a month of begging for it. Not good enoug". Your bank's main job is to protect your money. If they fail to do so, you have no reason to stay with them. There's a whole lot of talk these days about banks not trusting each other. Well, apparently, David's bank trusts the word of some Finnish bank more than it's own client's word. No wonder there is a lack of faith. The ball was dropped here by David’s bank. What interest does David’s bank have to not side with him? If I were David, I’d take my business elsewhere.

I’ve done so in the past, when an ATM (of my own bank) ate my pass without reason, and my bank was slow giving me a new pass. After a couple of weeks, I just walked in, make them pay me out in cash (very inconvenient because you never have a nice round amount in your accounts) and walked out. The best thing was that they simply did not understand what was going on. “But Sir, we sent you a new pass, not?” “Yeah, after a month of begging for it. Not good enoug”.

Your bank’s main job is to protect your money. If they fail to do so, you have no reason to stay with them. There’s a whole lot of talk these days about banks not trusting each other. Well, apparently, David’s bank trusts the word of some Finnish bank more than it’s own client’s word. No wonder there is a lack of faith.

]]> By: Addy http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15153 Addy Thu, 23 Oct 2008 04:30:43 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15153 The same happened to me with ATMs of Bank of China in Shanghai. I was out $1000 over 4 transactions. HSBC sold me out and didn't protect me. I hope they burn to the ground. The same happened to me with ATMs of Bank of China in Shanghai. I was out $1000 over 4 transactions. HSBC sold me out and didn’t protect me. I hope they burn to the ground.

]]> By: Timen http://www.elliott.org/blog/foreign-atm-sucks-391-out-of-a-travelers-account-and-his-bank-lets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-15148 Timen Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:18:36 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5282#comment-15148 This guy should have been smart enough to take care of it in Finland. Take the receipt and it would be OK. No big deal. Move on. This guy should have been smart enough to take care of it in Finland. Take the receipt and it would be OK. No big deal. Move on.

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