Can this trip be saved? Icelandair’s ESTA snafu strands 18-year-old in UK

August 16, 2010

Note: I’m starting a new series called “Can this trip be saved?” where you get to vote on whether I mediate a case. Here’s the first installment.

Carrie LaMarr is steamed at Icelandair. Because of a misunderstanding over her son’s visa requirements, he was denied boarding on a flight this summer. He had to stay in Europe two extra days and pay another $905 to fly home.

LaMarr says the mix-up is Icelandair’s fault. Icelandair says it isn’t to blame.

Who’s right? I’ll let each side speak for itself and then tell you why I need your help in deciding what to do next.

Let’s begin with LaMarr:

Our 18-year-old son, Alex, arrived at check in at Glasgow airport for his flight to Seattle on July 17th with Icelandair some three hours before departure.

Alex presented his online ticket and British passport to the handling agent. Alex also had his Green Card with him, which was taped inside his passport.

The handling agent asked Alex whether he had completed the ESTA program paperwork, to which Alex replied no he had not. [ESTA is the US Visa waiver program.]

The agent told him that he would not be able to travel unless ESTA paperwork had been completed.

Alex asked whether he could complete the form and she informed him no, that such paperwork needed to be completed 72 hours before departure.

Alex told the agent that he thought that was strange as he lived in the USA and was a Permanent Resident and did not think he would have to do this.

The agent told Alex that only US citizens were not required to complete the ESTA paperwork and did not ask for any other documentation

Alex, not familiar with the new ESTA travel system since he last traveled to the UK (Aug 2008) had no choice but to believe her. His father, also present at the desk, stressed that Alex in fact lived in the USA and was returning for an important surgery on July 22nd and it was vitally important he return home to Seattle. The agent merely told Alex to phone Icelandair to see what could be done and then moved on to the next passenger.

LaMarr says the agent was mistaken, and had she bothered to read the ESTO requirements, would have seen that her son didn’t require a visa waiver, since he was a permanent resident. She complained to Icelandair, asking for a refund. Here’s the response from the agent:

The passenger was travelling on the FI436 then he was travelling on to the United States. When I was going to check the passenger in the computer asked if the passenger had completed an ESTA form online or if the passenger had a visa or any other documentation.

So I then asked the passenger if he had completed an ESTA form or had a visa. Pax Gray replied no to the visa and asked what an esta form was. I then showed him his confirmation as it said on the top of it that he had to complete and ESTA form at least 72 hours before travelling.

Pax Gray stated he never done this, so I advised him that as this was not done he wouldn’t be able to travel and that he would need to contact Icelandair or our ticket desk to see what they would be able to do with his ticket. Pax stated that he was a British citizen and that he held a British passport which he showed to me.

At no point did he show me a green card. Pax Gray never mentioned being a US resident or having possession of a green card. Obviously if he had done so I would have checked him in with no issue. Pax Gray went on his way to the ticket desk, he accepted the information I had given him, and was very pleasant.

LaMarr said both her son and her husband, who was present at check-in, dipute that account. They say they were never asked about his residence status or for a Green Card.

“We believe the handling agent was responsible for our son being denied boarding when he was in receipt of the correct documentation, though she did not ask for it,” she says.

Why I’m on the fence. Proper documentation is the traveler’s responsibility. The requirements are clearly spelled out on the US government’s site. Had he shown the Icelandair representative a Green Card and pointed to the chapter and verse of the ESTA rules that said he could travel, he would have been allowed on a plane. Icelandair is also well within its rights to charge for a seat on the plane two days later.

Still, it isn’t unrealistic to expect an Icelandair agent working in the UK to be aware of the new ESTA requirements. She should have asked Alex a few more questions in an effort to ensure he could get a seat on his original flight, and to make it to his doctor’s appointment.

What do you think? Should I ask Icelandair to refund the money? Or is this an expensive lesson learned for LaMarr?

Here are the results of the poll, which ran from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Aug. 16, 2010.

That’s 74 percent yes, 26 percent no. The poll had 723 responses. I’ve contacted Icelandair on behalf of LaMarr.

Update (Aug. 18): I contacted Icelandair. LaMarr received the following response:

Thank you for our telephone conversation yesterday. I hope this message finds you well. As promised, I went over the issue in more detail. I feel that the issue has been handled well by our Icelandair employees so far. However, as the matter was originally handled by our handling agent, we cannot be assured of all details.

Because of this, you were offered a 50% refund on the airfare and a full refund on the change fee, excluding the fare difference. That is a total refund of 311.15 GBP or approx. 484 USD. As we discussed, that is not a total refund on the amount you paid for the ticket change. Let me stress that your claim finds our full understanding. Therefore I would like to offer you a full refund on both the change fee and fare difference, a total of 905 USD.

I hope you agree with this solution and if you do, please inform me and I will make sure that the amount will be refunded to your creditcard as soon as possible.

(Photo: D eivis/Flickr Creative Commons)

  • Monica

    First, I think this is a great idea! I think this is a case where the agent was just trying to keep her line moving and didn’t take the time to ask all the right questions. I am more likely to believe the customer’s memory of the incident rather than an agent handling hundreds of people a day. I find it hard to believe that the agent didn’t know Alex was a US resident. As soon as he said “I live there” she should have known to ask for proof, aka green card. Plus, the agent said she was presented with the passport, which according to the family, had the green card clearly attached inside. The ticket agent should have seen this. I think she saw the ESTA notice and was just being stubborn about it. After all, she could dismiss them outright under the ESTA excuse rather than take the extra few minutes of her time to properly handle the case and correct the issue in the computer.

  • http://www.boardingarea.com/blogs/viewfromthewing Gary Leff

    They showed a non-US passport and said they didn’t complete relevant forms to enter the US under the Visa Waiver program, it seems incumbent on the customers to point out the green card, not just pass over a passport that has the green card tucked inside and expect the check-in agent to discern their status.

    Someone with a green card being told that they will not be permitted to fly because they do not have proper documentation to enter the US should at a minimum have taken sufficient responsibility to escalate the issue to a supervisor.

    Sure, one wishes that the confusion had been sorted out. But it seems that the customers had some obligation to realize that their green card status wasn’t obvious, “I am a US permament resident not a visitor, I am not traveling under the Visa Waiver Program.” And if given difficulty by the agent, getting someone with greater authority involved. Had they done that, and been denied boarding, then of course it would be the airline’s fault. But it seems they did not do that.

  • SirWired

    This is a boarderline case. The check-in process is not a game of 20 Questions. But the OP had little need to know the ESTA requirements, since they did not reply to him. On the other hand, one might assume that Green Card would ease passage to the US, and producing it without being asked would have been wise.

    If we flip it around again, if the border agent explicitly said “all non-US-Citizens without a visa must go through ESTA.” than this was simply an incorrect statement, Green Card or not. But if we flip that around, a Green Card is kind of Visa-like, since it authorizes a foreign citizen entry into the US, and the OP could have extrapolated and produced it when asked about a visa.

    Blech; maybe a voucher would be called for, as there were mistakes on both sides.

  • Marissa

    I am certainly no fan of IcelandAir- my brother flew from the UK to the USA on IcelandAirExpress this summer and they charged him for printing out documents that they state on their website are unneeded, and if they become needed at the airport they will print for no charge. Without a doubt IcelandAir do not seem to know what they are doing.
    That said, I find the account given by the the LaMarr’s very strange. Her son’s greencard was taped inside his passport? What did his father do? Does his father have a greencard as well? Did the father stay with him in Europe? I ask because if the father had a greencard and presented it, was he told he needed to fill out ESTA and wouldn’t be able to travel? Or was he excused from ESTA? If the former, then I would expect a grown man, who had gone through the immigration process to know that he wouldn’t need an ESTA as a US resident; if the latter then he should have known his son wouldn’t need one as well.
    Why did they agree to be denied boarding? Why didn’t they ask for a manager? I am a resident of the USA as well and if anyone started telling me I needed an ESTA I would simply find the nearest computer and print out documents from a computer proving I don’t need one; if this didn’t work I would have searched high and low for an agent willing to take on my case.
    As another note- they are under obligation to fill out advance passenger notification before flying to the USA. This clearly asks you for your resident number; if they had done this, there should also have been no issue.
    When I fly I always hand my greencard and passport separately so my greencard and passport can be run together.
    In this case, it pains me to say I agree with IcelandAir. If I am not mistaken, IcelandAir would have needed to shoulder the burden of flying back the passenger and been fined for flying in a passenger if he truly hadn’t had correct paperwork and had been denied entry to the USA.

  • TomB

    whilst I voted mediate, it was a close call

    The US anti-visitor rules have got a bit insane over time (you really feel like a performing seal filling in the web forms, getting ESTA’d and still not knowing if the non-smiling border protection person will let you in) and what would it have taken to have a simple laminated 1 page sheet at the icelandair check in desk showing who requires what?

    It’s not as if there are only a few hundred green card holders after all!

  • Raven

    Interesting new system to allow the peanut gallery to vote on which cases you take. As an FYI, I run safari and kept getting a script error for the radio button survey.

    I say take the case. There’s something fishy with the agent’s story. Common sense tells me that if I was told I needed a visa to enter my home country, I’d immediately speak up and say “but I’m a citizen/permenent resident/etc”

  • marissa

    @TomB- No other airline has a laminated sheet (perhaps they should..) but since this is the only airline I have ever heard of such a case with, it seems to me all other residents know they don’t need an ESTA. Something tell me if he had handed over his greencard and passport together, we would be not be debating this issue.

    @ Raven- “I say take the case. There’s something fishy with the agent’s story. Common sense tells me that if I was told I needed a visa to enter my home country, I’d immediately speak up and say “but I’m a citizen/permenent resident/etc”” This is exactly the reason I think he shouldn’t take the case- clearly lack of common sense on LaMarr’s part.

    Honestly, the reason I am anti this case is because people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions. I do not wish to stay longer in lines because people didnt take the time to know their rights, and have airlines spend 20+ mins with each passenger to avoid being hit up for 1,000 dollars each time.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    I think that both sides made mistakes.

    Alex LaMarr should have only presented his Resident Alien card and that would have prevented this problem.

    Also, he should have printed out the ESTA rules and carry them with him. Some will argue that Alex shouldn’t need to know the ESTA rules, carry the rules with him, etc. I disagree. One time, I ran into a custom agent in Canada that was misinformed (he said that I need a bunch of paperwork to make a sales call to a Canada comapny) about the NAFTA rules and I spent 2 hours in customs. Since that trip, I always carry the print of the NAFTA regulations with me when I travel to Canada in case if I run into another misinformed Canadian custom agent.

    His green card should have not been taped to his passport. When going through US customs, the green card needs to be swiped\scanned.

    LaMarrs should have asked to speak to another agent, supervisor or manager.

    It is my guess that the LeMarrs didn’t used a brick & mortar travel agent to purchase these tickets. If they spent the $ 25 to $ 50 to book the tickets with a brick & mortar travel agent, they could have called that travel agent for assistance.

    I think that the Icelandair agent should have asked Alex one additional question, “Why do you think that the ESTA requirements doesn’t apply to you?”. If that question was asked, it would have come out that Alex is a resident alien since Alex taped his resident alien card to the inside of his passport. Or the agent could have asked “are you a Resident alien?”

    IHMO, I think that 75% of the fault is LaMarrs and 25% of the agent.

  • Teresa

    There’s something fishy here. The agent, by their own account, was acting robotically, apparently following a script rather than actually using their head. And if the intent was to weed out people who would not be permitted entry to the US (thus incurring penalties to the airline for allowing them to board), this script was full of holes (there are lots of reasons why foreign citizens might not need an ESTA). That’s a strike against Icelandair and a reason to hold the agent accountable.

    But why did the passengers (including the boy’s father) accept this so meekly? Why didn’t they say, hey, wait, this doesn’t sound right, like, we live in the USA? I understand though that they may not have wanted to make a scene and that the agent may have been impatient.

    And finally, ESTA issuance is normally a matter of seconds over the Internet. I was under the impression that although it’s recommended that you apply for an ESTA at least 72 hours in advance, that there’s nothing to stop you from doing it at the very last minute. So why didn’t the agent suggest going over to the nearest computer terminal and applying for the ESTA on the spot if it was so important?

    Overall, it’s hard not to come to the conclusion that Icelandair’s ground handling agent was at fault here. They were in a position of power, and thus it’s their job to know the rules and apply them in the customer’s interest.

  • Chris in NC

    Great idea Chris! Love it.

    While I voted no, I am really on the fence. Based on what I read, I don’t think there was anything neferious on the part of Iceland Air’s agent. Quite simply, it came down to whether the check-in agent knew that the OP’s son had a green card. Agent says “no green card was produced”, OP says “green card was produced”, a classic he-said, she-said situation.

    I suspect the truth was somewhere in the middle. He produced the British passport, agent immediately went into the “checklist” mode and asked about the ESTA. I’m not sure either side completely understood the situation. A more proactive father could and should have spoken up, and said, he has a “green card and is exempt from ESTA.”

    Personally, I think the new security protocols for entering the US stink. From a traveller’s perspective, I don’t think it does much more in protecting the borders, rather it produces ill-will and leads to retalitory policies from other countries against US citizens.

    Chris (Elliot), some important facts are missing here. When did the OP’s son try to check in? I have an inkling that they tried to check in very close to the departure time. Thus, the agent was pressed for time to get the line moving and was either unable or unwilling to investigate further. If they checked in 3+ hours before, they could have made phone calls or notified a supervisor and had time to sort this out. The article does not mention any of these facts.

    Finally, there is something contradictory. Agent says she did not know about the Green Card. OP says he mentioned that he is a “permanent resident.” OP later writes that “at no time were they asked about residence status or Green Card.” Did the son or father say “I have a Green Card, here is the Green Card, and thus he is exempt?”

    Chris

  • Carver

    @Arizona

    I respectfully disagree with you analysis

    By your own account, you only carry a printout of the rules because you had a negative encounter in Canada. If a sophisticated traveler like you required an encounter to know to carry the rules, how do you expect an 18 year old boy to know that.

    Moreover, I think it is reasonable for somone to only print out the rules that apply to them. For example, I am an American citizen. There is no particularly good reacon for me to know anything about ESTA or any other visa entry requirements.
    —————————————-

    I think Chris should mediate this case. Everyone is speculating what transpired, yet none of us where there. Everyone just knows what, in hindsight, they would have done.

  • Christopher Elliott

    @Chris in NC Alex and his father checked in three hours before departure.

    Just an update: 66 pecent yes/33 percent no as of 9 a.m. I’ll close the poll at the end of the day and let everyone know what I’ve decided to do.

  • Cynthia

    I voted yes. While I think the LaMarrs made some errors (not keeping the green card separate from the passport, not asking for a supervisor), I think the agent was just trying to get rid of them when she didn’t get the expected ESTA answer, and wasn’t paying enough attention to what the LaMarrs were telling her. They weren’t using the words “US Resident Alien Card” or “Green Card” or whatever was in her script, they used another verbiage, and she didn’t pick up on that and ask the right questions.
    I suspect Chris in NC hit the nail on the head with the late check-in scenario.

  • Pplaresilly

    I voted yes only because the kid was 18 years old and NEEDS someone with some common sense to intervene, apparently his PARENT (the one that was present) didn’t have to wit to point out the green card or the chapter/verse of the ESTA program…DUH.

  • Dang

    I think in this case the Airlines agent is more concern about keeping the line moving. And I am really sure the agent cannot keeping update with all the complex details or the requirements for US Entry. Very understandable, the Airlines don’t want to take the chance to pay a heavy fine by US Immigration. But if there are wrong they should compensate the customer.
    By the way, having a Green Card is not the ipso-facto permit to USA entry. If the holder of Green Card is absent for a very long period without a pre-authorization of the Immigration department, his permanent resident status can be jeopardized.
    The agent should relay the case to a more specialized Supervisor with more updated or specialized with the complexity of US Entry requirements. But I doubt the result could be different, the Airlines don’t want to take the chance for a heavy fine.

  • Sarah Di

    I vote yes, just because it’s impossible to tell from a he said she said standpoint what actually happened. I feel that, while it’s important for travelers to be informed about requirements, that the agent should have been more informed and thorough, based on the dialogue that was reported. If they told the agent that he was a permanent resident, that should have been a big signal for her to ask for a green card. Maybe there’s more documentation that shows who was actually in the wrong, but I don’t think you’re going to get that unless you try to mediate. If, through that process, you find out that the passenger was in the wrong, no problem, but they could very well be in the right too.

  • barbie45

    I say take the case. Who has not made a judgemental error?Lets us not all get so sactimonious. Good grief our own President does on occasion.

  • Lark

    Teresa’s point is one that lots of people need to remember. The agent is in a position of power over the customer. Yes I think that the customers should have appealed, & or known more about what was required, but it is her job to ask all the pertinant questions, & ask twice if necessary to do her job correctly. It would have only taken another minute, two at the most for her to determine exactly why the customer felt they had all the documentation they needed, & see that they did indeed have the correct paperwork required.
    Cust resp. 25% Company responsibility 75%

  • Phil

    It is up to the pax to have all the correct documentation and it is up to the pax to ensure that the correct documentation is presented at check-in. Sure the check-in agent could ask questions, nut checking in for a flight should not be a game of “20 questions” the moderator being the airline representative, when is the travelling public going to grow up and take responsibility for the actions/inactions of themselves.

  • KathyJ

    Before I voted I wanted to read the comments because of the additional perspectives to be gained. I don’t mind people saying how they voted and why, but was surprised to see a progress report on voting results. Christopher, I really think you should not provide updates on how the voting is going. I realize this is not a national election and that you might decide to go against the majority, but it’s certainly an important issue to the people involved.

  • Chris in France

    Since ESTA is a process that approves an overwhelming majority of travelers in less than 20 seconds, I think that the Agent was wrong in denying boarding. She should at least have proposed to them that they try filling in the form online and come back before check-in time. Plus, he didn’t even need the ESTA form for the first leg of the flight from Glascow to Reykjavik, could have been placed on stand-by for the second leg of the flight from Reykjavik to Seattle, which would have allowed even more time to get the ESTA approved !
    Guess the flight was overbooked and the airline was happy to bump a free unsuspecting (and probably not informed enough) passenger !

  • Jeanne in NE

    I loved Raven’s comment about the “peanut gallery”. So, if only 1 case per week gets put up for a vote, then the merits of taking on all other cases presented during the rest of the week should not be debated, right? My opinion is that Chris should take the cases of those people he wishes to take, without having to justify himself or put the matter to a vote.

    I say this with all due respect to the regular contributors here. I enjoy your comments and perspectives, as well.

  • Thalassa

    I say no – the passenger should have pointed out the green card, not just tucked it inside the passport. The agents have lines of impatient people to handle, and they don’t have time to do the work for you.

    Each passenger should be responsible for handling their own business.

  • Bill

    Well, if you want my opinion, here it is.

    I refer to the agent’s statement of the following:
    ====================================
    The agent told Alex that only US citizens were not required to complete the ESTA paperwork and did not ask for any other documentation
    ====================================
    This is ABSOLUTELY not true. The “gatekeeper” – who decides who flies and who does not – is uninformed about the law.

    There may have been things that could have been done better on both sides, but the bottom line is that it appears the IcelandAir agent did not know the rules.

    I’m Canadian..would she have told me to go and register?

  • Christopher Elliott

    @Jeanne in NE, I thought regular readers of this site might like to vote on a case from time to time. Obviously, I don’t have the resources to put every case up to a vote. But your point is taken.

  • Leslie

    I agree with those who stated that fault was on both sides. I was a little disturbed that the gate agent didn’t understand ESTA rules, however. Do they receive training on these types of issues to keep them updated on international travel regulations?

  • http://www.thetravelinggiraffe.com Crissy

    Chris, I like this segment where we get to vote.

    I find it very strange that the passenger would not have mentioned either the green card, the fact that they’re a resident. Meaning, I think he did and the person checking them in was not fully aware of the rules and didn’t want to deal with it.

  • Mike Z

    From the Agent: When I was going to check the passenger in the computer asked if the passenger had completed an ESTA form online or if the passenger had a visa or any other documentation.

    The computer asked if they had that form OR other documentation. The agent should know what other documentation is acceptable and asked for it. I would also think they if the agent said “do you have any other documentation?” That the kid would have pointed to his green card in the passport. I blame the airline for having an uninformed agent. (who couldn’t possibly remember the conversation with every single person they helped or what the screen said.) She probably drew on her experience with what she normally sees and forumlated a response.

    So, I voted Yes. What a great idea to do one or two of these a week.

  • Chicky

    If we were talking about two 40-year-old adults traveling here, I might say, “Don’t take the case. They should have known the rules.” However, as another poster pointed out, this is an 18-year-old kid and his dad. Maybe dad should have been more up on the rules, but the kid shouldn’t be penalized because of that.
    Also, as other posters have pointed out, there’s something fishy here. I’ve learned there are usually at least three sides to a story, and sometimes more. I halfway suspect a minor language barrier and frustration on both sides, leading to a heated exchange and the agent saying, “No soup for you!”
    Take the case to mediate for the 18-year-old, but use your famous investigative skills to find out when the fight started. LOL.

  • Liz

    I like this idea as well. I do think Chris should get to decide what cases he takes without criticism from us, and this is a nice way to balance it out (plus being more interactive).

    I voted yes. I feel that Chris’s purpose is to become involved when there is an issue or confusion between customer and service provider. I think the LeMarrs could have done much more to prevent getting into this mess, but the agent also made mistakes. I’m not sure Icelandair owes a full refund, but hopefully Chris can mediate a satisfactory resolution for both parties.

  • Tanya

    I voted no. I think it is the passenger’s responsibility to know what you need before traveling. If you are traveling internationally, then you should know the rules. When is a Visa required? When will just a passport suffice? I remember the first time I traveled to Europe, I had to have a letter from the Dean of my school stating that I would be enrolled in classes for x amount of weeks. As I was going to be in Eurpoe for more than 6 weeks. I knew about this beforehand and took the proper documentation, which was requested at Customs in London. This 18 year old had a parent with him, although I am not so keen on giving the 18 year old so much leeway. If he were 14? Maybe, then it would totally be the parent’s fault. This family sounds like it travels somewhat frequently, so they should have known, or at least have armed themselves with knowledge.
    I also question why the OP did not ask for a supervisor? Why did the dad not speak up more? If it was really that necessary to get back (for a surgery?). I also would have gotten on the phone/internet to find out if I could get an ESTA or if I even needed one. With today’s technology, this should not have been that difficult, maybe a bit pricey, but certainly less than $900. From what I remember of most airports in Europe, there were computer stands everywhere. I guess my main problem is that the OP did not even try to help themselves, the resources were available and sometimes just asking goes a long ways. I think had the OP tried to have done anything for themselves, I may feel differently. Just not sure why with all the technology in our world now they did not try to check to see what was needed. Had they really been there in plenty of time.

  • Alia

    I say yes and this is why…
    We do not know the status of the father so he could be solely a British Citizen and not know anything about the rules for traveling to the US as a green card holder. So saying that he should know could be unreasonable. Also based on the son’s most prior travel in Aug 08, he had everything he needed and so he probably assumed he was good to go. Expecting an 18 year old to keep up to date on rules and regulations for a green card holder is a lot to ask. Usually a passport and a Green card are required not just a green card and most people who have them know they have to show them to re-enter the US. Knowing how long before the flight would help but asking to speak to a supervisor either way would have been advisable as they may have known a little more on the regulations. I thnk the agent could have done more but the customer could have insisted more as well.

  • David

    This is a “no win” situation. Because the basis of the complaint is differing versions of the facts of the event, there is no way to tell who is at fault. But ultimately, the passenger needs to know the entry requirements (passport, green card, visa waiver or visa.)

  • Jeffrey C

    I agree that you should take the case. I agree with everyone who has said the agent can’t possibly remember every passenger they’ve talked to. But I disagree with using that logic to indicate that the agent doesn’t remember this passenger. Working for an airline, I can tell you that denying boarding to an international passenger is rare, even for an international carrier. You may have 1 customer PER DAY that gets denied boarding. I fully feel that the agent remembered the conversation they had with this specific passenger, and that agent remembers specifically what was said.

    Now having said that, you should take the case because I find it unreasonable that something as extreme as a denied boarding happened without the implicit decision of a Supervisor, or at the very least without gathering a second opinion. Before my airline turns someone away we always have someone “check our math”. Typically a Supervisor gets involved because involuntary denied boardings almost always result in a complaint letter. The Supervisor will usually take the time to print out chapter and verse of the regulation and hand it to the passenger so we can document that the customer was advised exactly which requirements they violate.

    Although the customer should have had that prinout in their hand before they came to the airport most customers don’t practice Murphy’s Law. If the Supervisor handed them a printout there could have been one last chance for the customer to say, “wait a minute, it says right here I’m okay to travel!” I don’t absolve the customer of providing the burden of proof, but I think the additional fees (known as an ‘add collect’ in the industy) should be refunded, and some form of compensation be issued. As an airline, you need to know the in’s & out’s of your business. The traveler had what they needed, they just didn’t know it. As an example the customer might not know the exact max limit of denied boarding compensation, but does that mean they aren’t entitled to it?

  • Hillary Howard

    I would vote to help the family. I agree he should have been more knowledgable about what documentation he needed to fly, but 18 year olds are used to having their parents cover that. There should be a lesson learned here, but $900 seems like a steep price to pay for a innocent mistake. Perhaps they could refund half of the fee. The traveler should always be more aware of regulations in the future.

  • Brian C

    Here is the KEY statement in this story:

    “They say they were never asked about his residence status or for a Green Card.”

    It’s not the ticket agent’s duty to ask your residence status in a foreign country. You approached the window handed them a UK passport and made no mention of the Green Card Taped to the inside of the passport. A ticket agent would have NO REASON to believe that you were anything other than a UK citizen unless you told them!

    At the most there is culpability on both parties at the but in my opinion this was the traveler’s responsibility to tell them.

  • Jeff

    My wife is a permanent resident and has a green card. We know nothing about these ESTA rules, nor do we need to. Permanent resident status overrides all that. And I find it hard to believe that the person didn’t mention at all they were a permanent resident. It’s the first thing we always say when traveling when there is even a hint of a question about anything wrong. Also, a permanent resident card is thick, so if one is taped inside a passport, it’s usually noticeable if the passport is held.

    I would suggest you take this case. If the flight attendant said they couldn’t board, what can the passenger really do? Arguing might even have made the situation worse. It sounds like the flight attendant didn’t quite know the rules, and the passenger relied on what was said, even though it was incorrect.

  • Michelle B.

    I voted No. If the pax confirmation clearly said that he needed to complete an ESTA 72 hours before the flight then he should have, or looked up what he needed to waive that. Secondly, does the passenger really think a verbal “Oh, I’m a permanent resident” would suffice? Of course not, or everyone would say that. That comment should be followed up with some proof. Specifically “And here is my Green card”. There is no account by either side that the Green card was specifically shown to the agent.

  • Teresa

    One more thing here. What was Alex’s itinerary? The story suggests, but doesn’t confirm, that he was returning on the inbound leg of a journey that originated in the US. If he was on a US-originating ticket, that strongly suggests US residency, it would have been negligent of the agent to not consider the possibility that he was a US resident, and that would be a pretty big strike against Icelandair in this case. If he had a UK-originating ticket or a one-way ticket, this criticism wouldn’t apply.

  • Becky

    Yes it is the customers responsibility to make sure they fill out proper paperwork. However its also the travel agents/airlines (which ever was used to book these airline tickets) responsibility to make sure they mention this to the customer as well. Being a former travel agent , i never once sent a customer on a trip or vacation or anything without making sure they knew whether they needed a visitor visa, passport etc. To me this case looks quite obviously not in the customers error. They did their research and knew they did not need to fill out paperwork where the child was a permanent resident of the USA.
    No we cannot expect every single airline attendant to know the ins and outs of everything, nor do they. You just cant trust that everyone knows everything including loop holes when it involves their jobs. They should….as it’s what they get paid to do, but still. However i feel the airline agent should have called someone to ask about the situation, she clearly states she was just following what was on her screen when it came up. When someone clearly discusses the law when it comes to traveling and you are not sure, contact your superiors to make sure you are doing the right thing. At least it was what I would have done.

  • Mike in NC

    This is an interesting tidbit I found on Wikipedia:

    Participating VWP passengers should currently be able to get ESTA for free from https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov or some other governments’ official websites. The U.S. Government recommends that travellers go online to submit an authorization request three days (72 hours) before travelling to the United States. This is not a requirement, and the majority of applications are approved immediately (in less than one minute). However, if a traveller is not eligible for visa-free travel, he or she will need to apply for a visa at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate, which is a substantially lengthier process that may require an interview with a U.S. Consular officer. That is why the U.S. Government recommends participating VWP travellers not wait until the last moment to sign up for an ESTA approval. This recommendation has been widely mischaracterized in the press as a requirement. As a result, opponents claim the new rules will delay last-minute business travel.

    The airline was wrong in saying it HAD to be filled out no later than 72 hours prior to the trip. The State Department recommends that you do that, but its not a requirement. In a situation such as this, the gate agent should have told the person to go fill out the ETSA, then come back to check in. The ONLY issue is if the ESTA is denied.

  • Steve

    I say yes, because the gate agent was misinformed (apparently on at least two levels, according to the comments here) and the passenger should have been able to board. It’s as simple as that, regardless of what other steps that passenger could have taken.

    And I blame the gate agent for not *asking* to see a green card when she was told he was a permanent resident (yeah, yeah, I know…she claims he never said it, he claims he did. Personally, I’ll take the recollection of the passenger who has every reason to remember what transpired over that of a gate agent who processes hundreds of passengers a day and probably forgot about this case by the time she got home that night). It seems she basically ignored that rather than asking for proof.

  • John

    I think that the poll to let people decide whether you should mediate a case is really good idea.

  • Jen

    “Alex told the agent that he thought that was strange as he lived in the USA and was a Permanent Resident and did not think he would have to do this.”

    To everyone who was saying how he should have spoken up and said he was a perm. resident, he DID speak up and say it. It was included in the article and you must have overlooked it.

    I believe him more than than the gate agent because he dealt with her, whereas she dealt with him…and hundreds of other people.

  • Abbey W.

    It’s a hard call – there is blame to go around on this one. Obviously the travelers needed to be certain of the rules before coming to the airport, but so did the airline. Their business is getting people on planes, and in a day-to-day sense, they should be the experts on anything related to their business.

    It’s not clear-cut or right and wrong in this case, but my feeling is that the airline could offer some kind of goodwill compensation to make up for the mistake. Probably not the $900, but something.

  • Matt

    As an airline industry pro one of the things you need to remember is people working for the airlines behind airport counters, unless they have a different color shirt on than everyone else, don’t even know how to iron that shirt, the different colored shirt wearer irons it for them. ESPECIALLY ICELANDAIR! These guys barely know how to get to Reykjavik. My advise to passengers is do your homework beforehand and don’t let the same shirt colored wearing morons have anymore say in your trip than asking if you are checking bags. And if they do give you trouble ask to speak to the one person in the different colored shirt!

  • Matt

    My next piece of advice is not to copy my spelling!

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Carver – “By your own account, you only carry a printout of the rules because you had a negative encounter in Canada. If a sophisticated traveler like you required an encounter to know to carry the rules, how do you expect an 18 year old boy to know that. “
    - – - – - – - – - – - -
    Before this incident, I traveled into Canada at least 20 times over a five year period without a problem. At this time of this incident, the US had a ban; a surcharge or etc. for softwood; therefore, it was my guess that this particular custom agent was taking it out on US business people. There were at least 10 other business people that were ahead of me in the line for the secondary custom screening at the airport. I have traveled at least 10 times to Canada since that incident and never had a problem nor have I had to pull the paper out of my laptop bag. I carry the print-out with me just in case if I ran into a misinformed custom agent or a ‘nationalistic’ custom agent.

    @ Carver – “Moreover, I think it is reasonable for somone to only print out the rules that apply to them. For example, I am an American citizen. There is no particularly good reacon for me to know anything about ESTA or any other visa entry requirements. “
    - – - – - – - – - – - -
    Since Alex is a resident alien, he should have printed out the requirement for a resident alien to renter the US when departing from the UK. When we travel outside of the US, I will print the requirements for an American citizen to enter that country.

    @ Monica – “I find it hard to believe that the agent didn’t know Alex was a US resident. As soon as he said “I live there” she should have known to ask for proof, aka green card…”
    - – - – - – - -
    I am sure that this agent has heard people saying “I live there” to avoid the ETSA requirements which turned out to be a lie. How about Alex or his father presenting\showing his Resident Alien card to the agent when saying “I live there.”

    @ Monica – “Plus, the agent said she was presented with the passport, which according to the family, had the green card clearly attached inside. The ticket agent should have seen this.”
    - – - – - – - –
    We don’t know how what page, etc. the Resident Alien card was attached to the passport. The only thing that we do know is that the Resident Alien card was taped to his passport. I have never seen a British passport up close. Looking at my passport (United States – issued in 2000), the inside cover page is my picture, passport number, etc. and the second page is where I signed it.

    I doubt that a person will tape their Resident Alien card to one the paper pages since the Resident Alien card needs to be scanned by a US Custom Agent. After living in the US for 15 years, my wife became a US citizen. Before becoming a US citizen, I taped my wife Resident Alien card to her passport two times (the inside of the back cover page) and both times the US Custom Agent removed the card to swipe it through the card reader so I stopped taping it.

    @ TomB – “The US anti-visitor rules have got a bit insane over time (you really feel like a performing seal filling in the web forms, getting ESTA’d and still not knowing if the non-smiling border protection person will let you in) and…”
    - – - – - – —
    Before my wife became a US citizen, it was unbelievable that stuff that she had to submit to get a VISA to some countries like the UK, France, etc. She had to submit bank statements; a letter from her employer stating that she will have a job when she returns; an affidavit stating that she won’t use any public funds or go on any public assistance programs during her stay; etc. It didn’t matter if she was an US Resident Alien, been living in the US for 15 years, etc. My point is that there are other countries that do make it difficult for citizens from some countries to visit them.

    @ marissa – “Common sense tells me that if I was told I needed a visa to enter my home country, I’d immediately speak up and say “but I’m a citizen/permenent resident/etc””
    - – - – - – -
    I agreed. Since they arrive three hours before the flight, they had plenty to talk to another agent, a supervisor, a manager, etc. If Alex had a laptop, Blackberry\iPhone\cell phone, they could have looked up the requirements. If Alex didn’t have one, they could have went to a business center (at the airport or a nearby hotel) to look up the requirements and print them out.

    To be fair to the LaMarrs, it could be a cultural thing for the British to not to speak up.

    @ Pplaresilly – “I voted yes only because the kid was 18 years old and NEEDS someone with some common sense to intervene, apparently his PARENT (the one that was present) didn’t have to wit to point out the green card or the chapter/verse of the ESTA program…DUH.”
    - – - – - – - – -
    Alex is 18YO and he is considered an adult by the legal system. He might be a young adult but still an adult. At 18, you can vote (here in the US), be drafted by the military; join the military; go to war; etc. He had his father with him.

    It is my guess that they purchase the tickets online since there is no mention of a travel agent. A brick & mortar travel agent would probably tell them what to do to get on the plane that day.

    @ Monica – “I am more likely to believe the customer’s memory of the incident rather than an agent handling hundreds of people a day.”
    - – - – -
    Please remember that Alex’s mother was NOT there with him at the airport. She heard the story second-hand from her son and\or Alex’s father. If you screw up at work, won’t you paint the picture to your boss in the best light? As a manager for several years, I can’t tell you how many times that the story was enhanced to make the person who made the mistake in a better light. There could be a possibility that we are getting the story of ‘we did no wrong and we want money’ not the real story.

    I voted ‘Yes’ because I thought that the agent could have ask one or two additional questions; however, most of the fault belongs to the LaMarrs. My recommended compensation is for the airline to provide vouchers for future travel.

  • Joe Farrell

    What do you mean its not the Icelandic Air agents’ problem working in the UK to know the visa requirements of the US? The airlines are required to know the entry requirements to ensure that the passenger can enter the country in question – otherwise- they are liable for return airfare to the point of origin. That’s why the computer lists the requirements.

    This kid has a visa; a green card is a work visa. He is NOT required nor allowed to participate in the ESTA program.

    US law MANDATES that the green card be ‘permanently affixed’ to the passport – thus – the green card MUST have been attached to the passport – right?

    The Icelandic rep claims to have never seen the visa, never asked for a visa, was never shown a visa and had no clue this kid has a visa.

    ONCE AGAIN Mr. ELLIOTT – a picture would answer a thousand questions as in if the work visa is affixed to the passport.

    This is a simple issue: Was the visa attached and who is believed – did the posters TELL or INFORM or POINT to the green card – or – did they in fact TELL the clerk that he was a permanent resident.

    If the answer is yes – then Icelandic owes them money – if the answer is no – then they don’t.

    A STRONG presumption here is that no one told the clerk about the Visa- or the OP’s were not AWARE that a green card IS a visa thereby exempting them from the ESTA. Moreover. being a permanent resident does not mean you have a visa! Permanent Resident is a STATUS, a green card is a work VISA. . . .

    The entire post turns on what seems like the most common and reasonable interpretation. I’d ask some pointed questions but to me- the passengers screwed up by not being specific once confronted with a somewhat ignorant clerk.

  • Jake

    Chris, like the voting option and said take the case. As many others have mentioned, while the passenger would be wise to check up on these things ahead of time, certainly the airline employee should be the expert. Given the misstatement about the 72 hour *requirement*, it stands to reason other information provided by them may be faulty.

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