Comments on: As flying conditions worsen, airline passengers turn abusive http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/ Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott's site. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Scott http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13794 Scott Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:02:27 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13794 I agree with the other posters here. Two and three year olds who expect to fly ought to behave like 35 year olds. My own children have never vomited, tried to wiggle out of their seatbelts, or even cried. It's because I'm an amazing parent and I've taught them to be perfect. I don't care if the fasten seatbelt sign was on for 5 hours. Nobody wants to fly in a urine soaked plane. If your kid has an accident you should cough up a whole new dreamliner, $180 million. And if you can't afford it you and your horrible children should spend the rest of your lives in prison. I'm just incensed that everyone can't be perfect and respectful like me. I agree with the other posters here. Two and three year olds who expect to fly ought to behave like 35 year olds.

My own children have never vomited, tried to wiggle out of their seatbelts, or even cried. It’s because I’m an amazing parent and I’ve taught them to be perfect.

I don’t care if the fasten seatbelt sign was on for 5 hours. Nobody wants to fly in a urine soaked plane. If your kid has an accident you should cough up a whole new dreamliner, $180 million. And if you can’t afford it you and your horrible children should spend the rest of your lives in prison.

I’m just incensed that everyone can’t be perfect and respectful like me.

]]> By: bmk http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13752 bmk Sat, 02 Aug 2008 15:59:15 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13752 On July 30th, 2008 at 12:43 am Eric Rosenberg said What Kevin suggests leads to a bunch of disrespectful, ignorant adults who beat each other rather than solve conflicts with words. A rather ironic post! Actually, YOURS is the ironic post! Look around you - - have you missed everything? What you described ALREADY exists!! The more we pander to our youth, the WORSE it gets - - NOT BETTER! On July 30th, 2008 at 12:43 am Eric Rosenberg said
What Kevin suggests leads to a bunch of disrespectful, ignorant adults who beat each other rather than solve conflicts with words. A rather ironic post!

Actually, YOURS is the ironic post! Look around you – - have you missed everything? What you described ALREADY exists!! The more we pander to our youth, the WORSE it gets – - NOT BETTER!

]]> By: Moira J http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13720 Moira J Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:58:53 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13720 I agree with 95% of the comments here. Yes, a minority of young people today are disrespectful of others' space and lack the "old-fashioned virtue" of self-respect. They do believe the rest of us are here to serve them, including cleaning up after them. This group does not respond to teachers' efforts to socialize them and their parents do not believe there is a problem. A teacher who taught for several years in a wealthy country overseas told me that the students do not flush or turn taps off in washrooms as there are attendants paid to do it for them. I am not at all surprised that the crude behaviour we see on land extends to the skies. The airlines have a huge problem. Good relations have to be maintained in mid-air and this means that oafish passengers cannot be treaed the way they deserve. Would having their own industry wide "watch list" and refusing to sell tickets to travellers who have been destructive or abusive be considered discriminatory? After all, there is no right to airline travel, is there? Many of you may have read of the two British women who became intoxicated and disorderly on a plane bound for Manchester, England. One of them hit an FA with a vodka bottle when she refused to serve them more alcohol. The woman then tried to open the cabin door because she wanted some fresh air. The plane was diverted to Germany where they were arrested, charged and released. I hope they had to row themselves back to England! I agree with 95% of the comments here. Yes, a minority of young people today are disrespectful of others’ space and lack the “old-fashioned virtue” of self-respect. They do believe the rest of us are here to serve them, including cleaning up after them. This group does not respond to teachers’ efforts to socialize them and their parents do not believe there is a problem. A teacher who taught for several years in a wealthy country overseas told me that the students do not flush or turn taps off in washrooms as there are attendants paid to do it for them.

I am not at all surprised that the crude behaviour we see on land extends to the skies. The airlines have a huge problem. Good relations have to be maintained in mid-air and this means that oafish passengers cannot be treaed the way they deserve. Would having their own industry wide “watch list” and refusing to sell tickets to travellers who have been destructive or abusive be considered discriminatory? After all, there is no right to airline travel, is there?

Many of you may have read of the two British women who became intoxicated and disorderly on a plane bound for Manchester, England. One of them hit an FA with a vodka bottle when she refused to serve them more alcohol. The woman then tried to open the cabin door because she wanted some fresh air. The plane was diverted to Germany where they were arrested, charged and released. I hope they had to row themselves back to England!

]]> By: RandyB http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13718 RandyB Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:49:51 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13718 I think it's a society where it's no ones responsibility together with a litigation crazy society. It's not my fault and let's sue. I think it’s a society where it’s no ones responsibility together with a litigation crazy society. It’s not my fault and let’s sue.

]]> By: Eric Rosenberg http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13703 Eric Rosenberg Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:43:33 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13703 What Kevin suggests leads to a bunch of disrespectful, ignorant adults who beat each other rather than solve conflicts with words. A rather ironic post! What Kevin suggests leads to a bunch of disrespectful, ignorant adults who beat each other rather than solve conflicts with words. A rather ironic post!

]]> By: Janet http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13702 Janet Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:54:20 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13702 I agree on all fronts except one, the airlines don't charge you for destroying a seat if your kid pees on it and they actually should. I am an airline pilot. Just today into Portland, I got a call from one of the FAs in the back that told me to have the Station (Portland) supply 2 new seat cushions on arrival. Apparently this was needed due to one toddler that wet not one, but two seats during the flight. The seatbelt sign was off for a majority of the flight and it was a relatively smooth flight. Of course, the airline just sucked it up politely and replaced the seats when we arrived. The lack of respect of other people's property is definitely on the decline as was eluded to in a few of the responses above. I traveled with small children A LOT and I cleaned up after my kids. I never let them smash stuff into the carpet or pee on the seat. Yes, there are accidents, but in most cases, I don't think these folks care and their homes are probably in the same condition as the row they've trashed on a flight. Thank you to all of you that actually give a darn and clean up after yourselves. I know I do whether I'm at a movie theater, a baseball game, or yes, flying as a passenger on a plane. It's just showing respect. What happened to the days when you dressed up to fly and no one trashed the airplanes. I agree on all fronts except one, the airlines don’t charge you for destroying a seat if your kid pees on it and they actually should. I am an airline pilot. Just today into Portland, I got a call from one of the FAs in the back that told me to have the Station (Portland) supply 2 new seat cushions on arrival. Apparently this was needed due to one toddler that wet not one, but two seats during the flight. The seatbelt sign was off for a majority of the flight and it was a relatively smooth flight. Of course, the airline just sucked it up politely and replaced the seats when we arrived.

The lack of respect of other people’s property is definitely on the decline as was eluded to in a few of the responses above. I traveled with small children A LOT and I cleaned up after my kids. I never let them smash stuff into the carpet or pee on the seat. Yes, there are accidents, but in most cases, I don’t think these folks care and their homes are probably in the same condition as the row they’ve trashed on a flight.

Thank you to all of you that actually give a darn and clean up after yourselves. I know I do whether I’m at a movie theater, a baseball game, or yes, flying as a passenger on a plane. It’s just showing respect. What happened to the days when you dressed up to fly and no one trashed the airplanes.

]]> By: Steven http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13701 Steven Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:12:43 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13701 Why should we care about companies/services that treat us the way they do? Why should we care about companies/services that treat us the way they do?

]]> By: Kevin http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13691 Kevin Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:31:38 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13691 I agree with the fact that doing these things is very disrepectful to the people that have to clean it up. BUT, I can definitely understand why people wouldn't report these things. If you reported that your child wet himself on the seat, they'd probably make you buy a whole new seat or charge you some charge that makes no sense. While I did grow up during the age that you couldn't beat your kids, I still was raised with a healthly respect for my parents and other people. I think we need to go back to the days of using a ruler on a child's wrist, spanking, etc.. and breed some respect into kids these days...Otherwise we're going to end up with a bunch of disrespectful, ignorant adults in the future. I agree with the fact that doing these things is very disrepectful to the people that have to clean it up. BUT, I can definitely understand why people wouldn’t report these things. If you reported that your child wet himself on the seat, they’d probably make you buy a whole new seat or charge you some charge that makes no sense.
While I did grow up during the age that you couldn’t beat your kids, I still was raised with a healthly respect for my parents and other people. I think we need to go back to the days of using a ruler on a child’s wrist, spanking, etc.. and breed some respect into kids these days…Otherwise we’re going to end up with a bunch of disrespectful, ignorant adults in the future.

]]> By: Chicky http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13685 Chicky Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:20:42 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13685 Ohhhh, how many times have I seen dirty diapers in a parking lot? And restrooms trashed? And graffiti on the walls? Couldn't tell you. And I too, live in a rather smallish town with a low crime rate. I feel sorry for anyone who is a custodian, simply because I know what they're dealing with. What boggles MY mind, is that FAs bring around trash bags, so passengers don't even have to leave their seats to throw away their garbage! Nah, it's not anger toward the airlines. People who do that are, to coin a fine Southern phrase, just hard down sorry, and haven't had any home training. They're ignorant and disrespectful of anything that doesn't belong to them. It's as sad as it is infuriating. Ohhhh, how many times have I seen dirty diapers in a parking lot? And restrooms trashed? And graffiti on the walls? Couldn’t tell you. And I too, live in a rather smallish town with a low crime rate. I feel sorry for anyone who is a custodian, simply because I know what they’re dealing with.

What boggles MY mind, is that FAs bring around trash bags, so passengers don’t even have to leave their seats to throw away their garbage!

Nah, it’s not anger toward the airlines. People who do that are, to coin a fine Southern phrase, just hard down sorry, and haven’t had any home training. They’re ignorant and disrespectful of anything that doesn’t belong to them.

It’s as sad as it is infuriating.

]]> By: frostysnowman http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13684 frostysnowman Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:16:47 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13684 I agree with Teresa and Mark A - I believe these examples of bad behavior are just that; bad behavior. The majority of planes do not have changing tables in the lavs, so you are forced to change the baby at your seat, but that does not excuse your leaving a dirty diaper in the seat back. Perhaps the urine in the seat was from some poor little kid who really had to go when the seatbelt light was on and the parents said he had to stay in his seat. But that doesn't mean someone shouldn't tell the flight attendant about the accident right away and try to help clean it up! The squished play dough and crackers could be from that same kid. If so, kudos to the parents for trying to keep him busy, but shame on you for not cleaning up after him! I guess we should be glad that the tobacco juice guy used a cup to catch his spit instead of expectorating directly into the seatback pocket! When people grow up not being taught personal responsibility, when their parents always pick up after them instead of making them do it themselves, when they are told meeting their own needs and desires outweigh anything else, this is the result. I agree with Teresa and Mark A – I believe these examples of bad behavior are just that; bad behavior. The majority of planes do not have changing tables in the lavs, so you are forced to change the baby at your seat, but that does not excuse your leaving a dirty diaper in the seat back. Perhaps the urine in the seat was from some poor little kid who really had to go when the seatbelt light was on and the parents said he had to stay in his seat. But that doesn’t mean someone shouldn’t tell the flight attendant about the accident right away and try to help clean it up! The squished play dough and crackers could be from that same kid. If so, kudos to the parents for trying to keep him busy, but shame on you for not cleaning up after him! I guess we should be glad that the tobacco juice guy used a cup to catch his spit instead of expectorating directly into the seatback pocket!

When people grow up not being taught personal responsibility, when their parents always pick up after them instead of making them do it themselves, when they are told meeting their own needs and desires outweigh anything else, this is the result.

]]> By: Highguy http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13683 Highguy Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:20:26 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13683 As a 15 yr. flight attendant for a major carrier, I can tell you that these occurrences are nothing new, it's just summer in the US. During these few months a lot of people who don't travel often come on board airplanes. They are anxious, stressed out, worn out from the hassles of getting to and through the airport, and very much out of their element. To top that off, most Americans no longer get any training in etiquette, manners, ect. They have the idea that treating others and ones immediate environment with respect is naive and not worth their time. Put people with these combinations in large groups, and lock them into a confined space for anywhere from 2 to 16 hrs. then throw in the many small discomforts and indignities foist upon those groups, and things can get quite chaotic. A sociologists dream. Personally, I think it is a wonder that things work out as well as they do. Come Sep. or Oct. things usually go back to what passes for normal. As a 15 yr. flight attendant for a major carrier, I can tell you that these occurrences are nothing new, it’s just summer in the US. During these few months a lot of people who don’t travel often come on board airplanes. They are anxious, stressed out, worn out from the hassles of getting to and through the airport, and very much out of their element.

To top that off, most Americans no longer get any training in etiquette, manners, ect. They have the idea that treating others and ones immediate environment with respect is naive and not worth their time.

Put people with these combinations in large groups, and lock them into a confined space for anywhere from 2 to 16 hrs. then throw in the many small discomforts and indignities foist upon those groups, and things can get quite chaotic. A sociologists dream. Personally, I think it is a wonder that things work out as well as they do. Come Sep. or Oct. things usually go back to what passes for normal.

]]> By: MarkA http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13680 MarkA Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:02:42 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13680 I agree with Teresa; I believe that most of the incidents cited are just plain, ordinary (unfortunately) ignorance and general disrespect for others. That's the norm these days. Drop something on the ground? I don't even think that they feel someone else will pick it up. It's just simply not their concern anymore. Have to make a left turn and I'm in the right lane? No worries! I'll just stop here and block traffic and wait for all of these inconsiderate a**holes to get out of my way so I can turn. I've noticed a huge upturn in the amount of trash I see by the side of the road over the last 5-6 years. It doesn't surprise me at all that this has carried over to the airlines. I bet if you look, you'll notice more of the same in many public locations. I agree with Teresa; I believe that most of the incidents cited are just plain, ordinary (unfortunately) ignorance and general disrespect for others. That’s the norm these days. Drop something on the ground? I don’t even think that they feel someone else will pick it up. It’s just simply not their concern anymore. Have to make a left turn and I’m in the right lane? No worries! I’ll just stop here and block traffic and wait for all of these inconsiderate a**holes to get out of my way so I can turn. I’ve noticed a huge upturn in the amount of trash I see by the side of the road over the last 5-6 years. It doesn’t surprise me at all that this has carried over to the airlines. I bet if you look, you’ll notice more of the same in many public locations.

]]> By: Ted http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13677 Ted Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:52:24 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13677 Could the urine on the seats perhaps be the result of strict enforcement of "security" rules that won't let desperate passengers get up to use the lav? Could the urine on the seats perhaps be the result of strict enforcement of “security” rules that won’t let desperate passengers get up to use the lav?

]]> By: Teresa http://www.elliott.org/blog/as-flying-conditions-worsen-airline-passengers-become-more-abusive/comment-page-1/#comment-13676 Teresa Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:38:31 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=5132#comment-13676 I'm not sure where you've been, Chris, but I don't think any of this has anything to do with airline retribution...sadly, this is just the norm for some people. When I was going through high school (class of 95) I heard many teachers say things along the lines of "these kids are the worst I've ever taught, they have no respect for anything or anyone!" I think things just got worse after us. I live in a city with one of the lowest crime rates in the country, but I can't tell you how many times I have seen dirty diapers left on the ground in parking lots. Just last weekend I saw a college-aged guy bring booze into a movie theater and proceed to get so wasted he passed out and his date couldn't wake him up at the end of the movie. Parents aren't teaching kids personal responsibility or respect anymore, and I'm afraid the things the pilot mentioned are just a sign of the times :( I’m not sure where you’ve been, Chris, but I don’t think any of this has anything to do with airline retribution…sadly, this is just the norm for some people. When I was going through high school (class of 95) I heard many teachers say things along the lines of “these kids are the worst I’ve ever taught, they have no respect for anything or anyone!” I think things just got worse after us.

I live in a city with one of the lowest crime rates in the country, but I can’t tell you how many times I have seen dirty diapers left on the ground in parking lots. Just last weekend I saw a college-aged guy bring booze into a movie theater and proceed to get so wasted he passed out and his date couldn’t wake him up at the end of the movie. Parents aren’t teaching kids personal responsibility or respect anymore, and I’m afraid the things the pilot mentioned are just a sign of the times :(

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