Comments on: Am I in the Terrorist Screening Database? http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/ Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott's site. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Kevin http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-73945 Kevin Thu, 07 Jul 2011 00:37:00 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-73945 I was told that becuz I was in the military and or voted for guns writes that I am a terrorist. I would like to find out if  "I am" on a terrorist list. How would I find this info. I was told that becuz I was in the military and or voted for guns writes that I am a terrorist. I would like to find out if  “I am” on a terrorist list. How would I find this info.

]]> By: aubreyfarmer http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-31507 aubreyfarmer Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:04:38 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-31507 The list isn't about catching terrorists, it is about conditioning the public to accept ever more Draconian laws. You can kiss your liberty good-bye. The globalists are using fear mongering and false flag attacks to create an atmosphere of fear. Our own government is beyond the control of the people and is now being controlled by an elite group of financial oligarchs. So, shake your head and call me crazy, but if you will open your pea-brain long enough to consider the facts, you too will soon see the truth of the matter. Go to YouTube and watch "Fall of The Republic" or "The Shadow Government" or numerous other videos that state the facts which prove the emergence of a New World Order and One World Government. The list isn’t about catching terrorists, it is about conditioning the public to accept ever more Draconian laws. You can kiss your liberty good-bye. The globalists are using fear mongering and false flag attacks to create an atmosphere of fear. Our own government is beyond the control of the people and is now being controlled by an elite group of financial oligarchs. So, shake your head and call me crazy, but if you will open your pea-brain long enough to consider the facts, you too will soon see the truth of the matter. Go to YouTube and watch “Fall of The Republic” or “The Shadow Government” or numerous other videos that state the facts which prove the emergence of a New World Order and One World Government.

]]> By: J in venice http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30627 J in venice Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:09:05 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30627 small typo there--sorry. 'tho they may begin by having the same name...' BTW, after that unpleasantness and indignity, i made a decision to quit flying, until TSA ends this stupid theatre of show and gets truly serious and effective about security. i wrote them and told them so. i continue to email them, every time i spot yet another useless practice of theirs, and can suggest a more effective one that would really work. i believe i'll go and write them about this discussion, now! small typo there–sorry. ‘tho they may begin by having the same name…’

BTW, after that unpleasantness and indignity, i made a decision to quit flying, until TSA ends this stupid theatre of show and gets truly serious and effective about security. i wrote them and told them so. i continue to email them, every time i spot yet another useless practice of theirs, and can suggest a more effective one that would really work.
i believe i’ll go and write them about this discussion, now!

]]> By: J in venice http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30626 J in venice Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:02:52 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30626 i haven't flown but once since 9-11, and then only because it was unavoidable--my father's funeral. My state ID card [ i don't drive] had lapsed, since my son committed suicide, right as it was coming due to be renewed, and taking care of that detail slipped my mind for a long time. So i was pulled out of line at the airport by TSA and given 'extra screening' due to 'having no valid current ID'. It was repeated at week's end after the funeral, upon flying back home.I asked at the conclusion of the Special Search, and again asked the TSA by email upon getting home, whether i was now on some 'no fly' list? And like the man says, nobody will tell me. Numerous people have been detained and denied travel because their NAMES matched poeple on the no fly list--but there is no way to take up the matter and clear one's name, if one is wrongly confused with the actual party the list means to stop. I liken this to our Credit Scores with the three credit bureaus. We as Individuals should lawfully have the rights to examine the information held on the government's no-fly list that is purported to refer to OURSELVES only, and as with our credit files, the right to correct, delete, remove and clear our file of any mistakes, errors , wrongly inserted details or confusions, and to add clarifying and unique details which will make it easy for any agent to quickly determine that we are NOT the party the list is meant to apprehend, though we may have the same name, even the same birth date or country of origin or any other detail which, however astronomical the odds, could conceivably be the same as the actual person intended to be stopped. something as obvious as fingerprints, unique body defects like moles, scars, even dental details, which could readily be looked for and shown in the airport private screening alcove, would expedite the clearing and resumption of travel by people whose names were similar to the intended targets of the no-fly list. We have the right to view our own credit files and to correct any mistakes in them, once a year. We as individuals should have the same rights to see for ourselves if our names are on the no-fly list, and to clear our file of any errors found, and our profile moved to another database of individuals mistaken and cleared, if we are not the intended party who is KNOWN-- WITH PROVABLE EVIDENCE--to be a likely travel threat. there are enough unique aspects to any person that can be put in their file to be sure they are not the individual intended by the list. their [our] fingerprints, a retinal scan, a DNA PCR, dental details, DOB, address, spouse, kids, employer, height, weight, all are details which a would- be terrorist would have a hard time duplicating in order to 'pass' in place of an innocent. each added detail multiplies the proof that this individual, though they man begin by having the same name, is obviously NOT the individual intended by the list. i haven’t flown but once since 9-11, and then only because it was unavoidable–my father’s funeral. My state ID card [ i don't drive] had lapsed, since my son committed suicide, right as it was coming due to be renewed, and taking care of that detail slipped my mind for a long time. So i was pulled out of line at the airport by TSA and given ‘extra screening’ due to ‘having no valid current ID’. It was repeated at week’s end after the funeral, upon flying back home.I asked at the conclusion of the Special Search, and again asked the TSA by email upon getting home, whether i was now on some ‘no fly’ list?
And like the man says, nobody will tell me.
Numerous people have been detained and denied travel because their NAMES matched poeple on the no fly list–but there is no way to take up the matter and clear one’s name, if one is wrongly confused with the actual party the list means to stop. I liken this to our Credit Scores with the three credit bureaus. We as Individuals should lawfully have the rights to examine the information held on the government’s no-fly list that is purported to refer to OURSELVES only, and as with our credit files, the right to correct, delete, remove and clear our file of any mistakes, errors , wrongly inserted details or confusions, and to add clarifying and unique details which will make it easy for any agent to quickly determine that we are NOT the party the list is meant to apprehend, though we may have the same name, even the same birth date or country of origin or any other detail which, however astronomical the odds, could conceivably be the same as the actual person intended to be stopped. something as obvious as fingerprints, unique body defects like moles, scars, even dental details, which could readily be looked for and shown in the airport private screening alcove, would expedite the clearing and resumption of travel by people whose names were similar to the intended targets of the no-fly list.
We have the right to view our own credit files and to correct any mistakes in them, once a year. We as individuals should have the same rights to see for ourselves if our names are on the no-fly list, and to clear our file of any errors found, and our profile moved to another database of individuals mistaken and cleared, if we are not the intended party who is KNOWN– WITH PROVABLE EVIDENCE–to be a likely travel threat.

there are enough unique aspects to any person that can be put in their file to be sure they are not the individual intended by the list. their [our] fingerprints, a retinal scan, a DNA PCR, dental details, DOB, address, spouse, kids, employer, height, weight, all are details which a would- be terrorist would have a hard time duplicating in order to ‘pass’ in place of an innocent.
each added detail multiplies the proof that this individual, though they man begin by having the same name, is obviously NOT the individual intended by the list.

]]> By: Albert http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30387 Albert Thu, 07 Jan 2010 11:31:56 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30387 Chris, Honestly, I think you should have a right to find out if you are on the list. I don't think anyone has the right to check if someone else is on the list. If one is simply checking to see if one's own name is there, then the govt. should be forced to give the information, however checking on your neighbors, etc., is kind of a privacy violation. I don't like the analogy with sex-offender lists either. Hundreds of people on those lists are assaulted or terrorized daily by the village vigilantes, and publishing all the names on the terror watch lists could lead to the same thing for those persons on that list. In both cases, if wrongly put on there, one's good name and reputation will be ruined with little chance of recovery - even less if they are published. In fact their lives could be put at risk if the lists are made public. Chris,

Honestly, I think you should have a right to find out if you are on the list. I don’t think anyone has the right to check if someone else is on the list. If one is simply checking to see if one’s own name is there, then the govt. should be forced to give the information, however checking on your neighbors, etc., is kind of a privacy violation.
I don’t like the analogy with sex-offender lists either. Hundreds of people on those lists are assaulted or terrorized daily by the village vigilantes, and publishing all the names on the terror watch lists could lead to the same thing for those persons on that list. In both cases, if wrongly put on there, one’s good name and reputation will be ruined with little chance of recovery – even less if they are published. In fact their lives could be put at risk if the lists are made public.

]]> By: Jasper http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30334 Jasper Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:02:50 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30334 Chris, another guy to talk to: http://biggovernment.com/2010/01/05/exclusive-interview-military-blogger-michael-yon-detained-by-tsa-in-seattle-airport/ Chris, another guy to talk to:

http://biggovernment.com/2010/01/05/exclusive-interview-military-blogger-michael-yon-detained-by-tsa-in-seattle-airport/

]]> By: Joe Farrell http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30298 Joe Farrell Wed, 06 Jan 2010 02:43:53 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30298 I have said this before and will say it again - never ever speak to the police who come to YOU specifically. LEO's and non-LEO investigators at this level do not wander the streets looking for the occasional criminal or blogger disclosing specific information like that in the SD- you are a TARGET of their visit. When they arrive and state: we would like to speak to you- and I do not care if it is about your dog urinating on someone's bushes, you ask them to politely leave. End of story. Give them your contact info and tell them if they wish to speak to you you will obtain counsel - maybe - and thenn they can speak to you. Once they return with a warrant issued by a Judge [or have on in their pocket] and the crappy little thing signed by some lawyer angling for a higher position, then you can STILL refuse to speak to them - Fifth Amendment - thus - you NEVER have to speak to them. If you do not speak to them - they cannot threaten you with some innocent 'misstatement' you made as being perjury and you hold all the cards in terms of what they want to know. Once you tell them, they hold all the cards. You can NEVER talk an LEO out of seeing you as a suspect if they think you are one - because - they have heard better liars than you or I could ever be. By saying nothing - you remain silent. And safe. I have said this before and will say it again – never ever speak to the police who come to YOU specifically. LEO’s and non-LEO investigators at this level do not wander the streets looking for the occasional criminal or blogger disclosing specific information like that in the SD- you are a TARGET of their visit.

When they arrive and state: we would like to speak to you- and I do not care if it is about your dog urinating on someone’s bushes, you ask them to politely leave. End of story. Give them your contact info and tell them if they wish to speak to you you will obtain counsel – maybe – and thenn they can speak to you. Once they return with a warrant issued by a Judge [or have on in their pocket] and the crappy little thing signed by some lawyer angling for a higher position, then you can STILL refuse to speak to them – Fifth Amendment – thus – you NEVER have to speak to them. If you do not speak to them – they cannot threaten you with some innocent ‘misstatement’ you made as being perjury and you hold all the cards in terms of what they want to know. Once you tell them, they hold all the cards.

You can NEVER talk an LEO out of seeing you as a suspect if they think you are one – because – they have heard better liars than you or I could ever be. By saying nothing – you remain silent. And safe.

]]> By: Ron http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30296 Ron Wed, 06 Jan 2010 00:48:30 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30296 Keep it up Chris. I'm sure there are many of us who admire your determination in this matter, particularly after what just happened. Many people have no idea just how life-altering a run-in with the authorities (on any level) can be. It gets romanticized in fiction and the movies, but standing your ground, when the US Government is breathing down your neck, and your kids are wondering "wassup with Dad" is quite commendable! Please keep us in the loop (I know you will!) on the FOIA request. As you know, it can take a LONG time! Keep it up Chris. I’m sure there are many of us who admire your determination in this matter, particularly after what just happened. Many people have no idea just how life-altering a run-in with the authorities (on any level) can be. It gets romanticized in fiction and the movies, but standing your ground, when the US Government is breathing down your neck, and your kids are wondering “wassup with Dad” is quite commendable!

Please keep us in the loop (I know you will!) on the FOIA request. As you know, it can take a LONG time!

]]> By: Justin http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30295 Justin Wed, 06 Jan 2010 00:40:11 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30295 @Carrie Charney, No matter how tough someone acts to you, they have one job. It's to get information out of you. You have enough, to protect yourself. I am glad in his article he consulted a lawyer. However, the lawyer he talked to seemingly did not give him great advice. At least, if we base Chris's reaction to his reaction. I wasn't there to know how Steve was treated or not. Still, any time you are under "arrest", threat of "arrest", etc, it is best to shut your mouth and say nothing. Resolving the problem right then or making a statement could come back and bite you in the ass due to rushed convenience. While steve might have been ganged up on, he should have stated his right to speak to a lawyer repeatedly and get back to them later. You know, at the end of the day, he might still have had to cave. Yet, doing so immediately is not the best way to go. @Carrie Charney,

No matter how tough someone acts to you, they have one job. It’s to get information out of you. You have enough, to protect yourself. I am glad in his article he consulted a lawyer. However, the lawyer he talked to seemingly did not give him great advice. At least, if we base Chris’s reaction to his reaction. I wasn’t there to know how Steve was treated or not. Still, any time you are under “arrest”, threat of “arrest”, etc, it is best to shut your mouth and say nothing. Resolving the problem right then or making a statement could come back and bite you in the ass due to rushed convenience. While steve might have been ganged up on, he should have stated his right to speak to a lawyer repeatedly and get back to them later. You know, at the end of the day, he might still have had to cave. Yet, doing so immediately is not the best way to go.

]]> By: Pete http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30292 Pete Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:19:48 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30292 I commend you for your courage! Honestly, if I ended up on the No Fly list I'd be so screwed I wouldn't know what hit me! I also agree with you that the list ought to be made public. Good luck with your Freedom of Information request. I commend you for your courage! Honestly, if I ended up on the No Fly list I’d be so screwed I wouldn’t know what hit me!

I also agree with you that the list ought to be made public. Good luck with your Freedom of Information request.

]]> By: Carrie Charney http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30289 Carrie Charney Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:36:41 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30289 @ Justin: Until you have stood in Steve's shoes under the same circumstances, you have no basis on which to criticize him. Your reaction could even depend on the time of day, what was happening or who was with you at the time, and even the demeanor of those invading your house. Sounds like the two that ganged up against Steve were nowhere near as polite as the one agent that visited Chris. It's easy to fantasize acting like a hero when one isn't under threat! @ Justin: Until you have stood in Steve’s shoes under the same circumstances, you have no basis on which to criticize him. Your reaction could even depend on the time of day, what was happening or who was with you at the time, and even the demeanor of those invading your house. Sounds like the two that ganged up against Steve were nowhere near as polite as the one agent that visited Chris. It’s easy to fantasize acting like a hero when one isn’t under threat!

]]> By: Justin http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30285 Justin Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:35:01 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30285 @ Mike, Give me a break. Sex Offender lists are published all the time. People are then aware and can deem whether or not they would like to live next to that individual or where their kids go. Matter of fact, your straw man argument fails. We have Public Records in this country for ALL CRIMES. So, should we stop publishing them. If I know "Joe" is a Murderer, what stops me from knocking on his door and asking him to be a hit man? Better yet, if "Tom" likes to burglarize houses, well hot damn, I can bribe him to steal some cool things. Hypothetical, but the same B.S. nonsense the government is dishing out. They simply want to run amok without checks and balances. Thanks Bush. Thanks for Starting this trend. As to Obama, he's just as bad for continuing it. @ Mike,

Give me a break. Sex Offender lists are published all the time. People are then aware and can deem whether or not they would like to live next to that individual or where their kids go.

Matter of fact, your straw man argument fails. We have Public Records in this country for ALL CRIMES. So, should we stop publishing them. If I know “Joe” is a Murderer, what stops me from knocking on his door and asking him to be a hit man?

Better yet, if “Tom” likes to burglarize houses, well hot damn, I can bribe him to steal some cool things.

Hypothetical, but the same B.S. nonsense the government is dishing out. They simply want to run amok without checks and balances. Thanks Bush. Thanks for Starting this trend. As to Obama, he’s just as bad for continuing it.

]]> By: Justin http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30284 Justin Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:27:49 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30284 Unfortunately, Your friend caved and caved hard. I am highly disappointed here. Threats or not, he should have stood his ground like you. I am sure he would have gotten the support of the ACLU / EFF / Your legal team in defending himself. Sad day when they can intimidate someone into disclosing information. With the details he gave: Hired after 2009... The Email Account.. Etc, that guy is toast. All they have to do is track the IP that logged into the email (pending he didn't proxy in or use multiple send points) , and now you have your man. Nice work Steve... Nice work = /. Unfortunately,

Your friend caved and caved hard. I am highly disappointed here. Threats or not, he should have stood his ground like you. I am sure he would have gotten the support of the ACLU / EFF / Your legal team in defending himself. Sad day when they can intimidate someone into disclosing information. With the details he gave:

Hired after 2009… The Email Account.. Etc, that guy is toast. All they have to do is track the IP that logged into the email (pending he didn’t proxy in or use multiple send points) , and now you have your man. Nice work Steve… Nice work = /.

]]> By: Mike http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30281 Mike Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:31:51 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30281 While I think it is abysmal and should result in some sort of documented discipline to the government agent who threatened this to your colleague. Unless he was actually put on the list in retaliation which would be mind boggling idiotic and a terrible use of power I do not believe it would be appropriate to disclose the list of names. This is a situation where I would expect the aid of my representative in Washington if I found myself on the list. Failing that I of course would turn to advocates like yourself Chris. When I weigh the consequences of discomfort for being on the list for the wrong reason (discomfort, travel delays, missed opportunities, etc.) versus the consequences of disclosing the list to those who would do harm to the innocent (terror, injury, and death). It is an easy choice for me. Regardless of our difference of opinion on this issue Chris I do appreciate all that you do. While I think it is abysmal and should result in some sort of documented discipline to the government agent who threatened this to your colleague. Unless he was actually put on the list in retaliation which would be mind boggling idiotic and a terrible use of power I do not believe it would be appropriate to disclose the list of names. This is a situation where I would expect the aid of my representative in Washington if I found myself on the list. Failing that I of course would turn to advocates like yourself Chris.

When I weigh the consequences of discomfort for being on the list for the wrong reason (discomfort, travel delays, missed opportunities, etc.) versus the consequences of disclosing the list to those who would do harm to the innocent (terror, injury, and death). It is an easy choice for me.

Regardless of our difference of opinion on this issue Chris I do appreciate all that you do.

]]> By: Caroline P. http://www.elliott.org/blog/am-i-in-the-terrorist-screening-database/comment-page-1/#comment-30275 Caroline P. Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:54:14 +0000 http://www.elliott.org/?p=10341#comment-30275 Go get 'em Chris. Seriously, your logic makes a lot of sense. 2010 is shaping up to be quite a year for Elliott.org already! :) Go get ‘em Chris. Seriously, your logic makes a lot of sense. 2010 is shaping up to be quite a year for Elliott.org already! :)

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