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	<title>Comments on: A very unhappy vacation: couple charged twice for Sandals getaway</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/</link>
	<description>Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott&#039;s site.</description>
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		<title>By: Kim Cushman</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-30994</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Cushman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-30994</guid>
		<description>I do most of my travel booking directly or through hotwire, priceline or expedia. To use a travel agency in this day and age would seem odd to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do most of my travel booking directly or through hotwire, priceline or expedia. To use a travel agency in this day and age would seem odd to me.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveInNYC</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-29055</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveInNYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 01:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-29055</guid>
		<description>For the life of me I cannot understand why any computer-literate person would use a TA, especially for something as simple as a Sandals booking! It is not that TAs are dishonest (though I know there are a few bad apples), it is just that (at least for things like this) they are simply no longer needed. 

Am I missing something here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the life of me I cannot understand why any computer-literate person would use a TA, especially for something as simple as a Sandals booking! It is not that TAs are dishonest (though I know there are a few bad apples), it is just that (at least for things like this) they are simply no longer needed. </p>
<p>Am I missing something here?</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Wechsler</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-23133</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Wechsler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-23133</guid>
		<description>@sue I think you misunderstood my point. Travel agents often book through tour operators like Happy because the cost to their client is lower, better rooms are available etc. This is not a referral but rather a common third party transaction. The agent&#039;s responsibilty is to make sure that they they are dealing with a reliable, sound operator. They should be bonded, among other things, and unless there is a valid reason for doing do, their insurance should not be purchased. While there are some scam artisits selling travel insurance Access America and TravelGuard are reliable but not inexpensive. In this unfortunate situation the agent can&#039;t do much more than make every effort to help the client recover what they can from the owners of Happy. As I said, unless the agency kept the money or knew that Hasppy had done so they have no financial responsibilty. Whether or not an agent chooses to make some restitution based on their relationship with the client or out of a sense of moral (not legal) obligation is another matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sue I think you misunderstood my point. Travel agents often book through tour operators like Happy because the cost to their client is lower, better rooms are available etc. This is not a referral but rather a common third party transaction. The agent&#8217;s responsibilty is to make sure that they they are dealing with a reliable, sound operator. They should be bonded, among other things, and unless there is a valid reason for doing do, their insurance should not be purchased. While there are some scam artisits selling travel insurance Access America and TravelGuard are reliable but not inexpensive. In this unfortunate situation the agent can&#8217;t do much more than make every effort to help the client recover what they can from the owners of Happy. As I said, unless the agency kept the money or knew that Hasppy had done so they have no financial responsibilty. Whether or not an agent chooses to make some restitution based on their relationship with the client or out of a sense of moral (not legal) obligation is another matter.</p>
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		<title>By: sue</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-23047</link>
		<dc:creator>sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-23047</guid>
		<description>Joel - do I understand you right?  Are you saying that if someone goes to a travel agent, who then books a tour through another agency, and that agency proves to be fraudelant/financially unstable, etc, then the only obligation that the travel agent has to the traveler is to refer him or her to their travel insurance?  

Seriously, travel insurance is perhaps the sleaziest form of insurance ever.  My travel agent referred me to a shaky third party agency?  Well, if you didn&#039;t get travel insurance, too bad.  I booked a trip and then a death occurred in my family and I had to cancel one month before the tour?.  I didn&#039;t get travel insurance?  Too bad.   

Joel, you have definitely convinced me to NEVER go to a travel agency.  If you don&#039;t think that travel agents should take any responsibility for their referrals - well what the heck are they for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel &#8211; do I understand you right?  Are you saying that if someone goes to a travel agent, who then books a tour through another agency, and that agency proves to be fraudelant/financially unstable, etc, then the only obligation that the travel agent has to the traveler is to refer him or her to their travel insurance?  </p>
<p>Seriously, travel insurance is perhaps the sleaziest form of insurance ever.  My travel agent referred me to a shaky third party agency?  Well, if you didn&#8217;t get travel insurance, too bad.  I booked a trip and then a death occurred in my family and I had to cancel one month before the tour?.  I didn&#8217;t get travel insurance?  Too bad.   </p>
<p>Joel, you have definitely convinced me to NEVER go to a travel agency.  If you don&#8217;t think that travel agents should take any responsibility for their referrals &#8211; well what the heck are they for?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-23044</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-23044</guid>
		<description>@Joel, @Keith -- While it&#039;s possible the first agency is not 100% liable (although I&#039;d argue they were irresponsible for selling same-company insurance and they may have a legal duty to ensure that the money they send made it to Sandals, plus I&#039;d question why they needed to involve another third party; worth pursuing), I still think the owners of Happy Vacations should be pursued for criminal and civil recovery from their *personal* funds; it sounds like the owners misdirected funds to pay other bills instead of Sandals.  I don&#039;t believe corporate bankruptcy can protect you from personal fraud charges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Joel, @Keith &#8212; While it&#8217;s possible the first agency is not 100% liable (although I&#8217;d argue they were irresponsible for selling same-company insurance and they may have a legal duty to ensure that the money they send made it to Sandals, plus I&#8217;d question why they needed to involve another third party; worth pursuing), I still think the owners of Happy Vacations should be pursued for criminal and civil recovery from their *personal* funds; it sounds like the owners misdirected funds to pay other bills instead of Sandals.  I don&#8217;t believe corporate bankruptcy can protect you from personal fraud charges.</p>
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		<title>By: Ernest</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-23040</link>
		<dc:creator>Ernest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-23040</guid>
		<description>Another crooked travel agent, another reason to bypass them all and deal directly with the companies.

I am sure there are lots of honest TA&#039;s out there but I have not met them and don&#039;t know how to tell them apart.  Being a member of the travel agent club (ATTHA or whatever it is) is no guarentee the will be honest and not rip you off.

I, too, have learned the hard way.  I can not say I will never use a travel agent again but I just don&#039;t see it happening.    Now I make all arrangements personally and its not as hard to do as some would have you believe.  Now I KNOW where the money went.  Lessons learned</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another crooked travel agent, another reason to bypass them all and deal directly with the companies.</p>
<p>I am sure there are lots of honest TA&#8217;s out there but I have not met them and don&#8217;t know how to tell them apart.  Being a member of the travel agent club (ATTHA or whatever it is) is no guarentee the will be honest and not rip you off.</p>
<p>I, too, have learned the hard way.  I can not say I will never use a travel agent again but I just don&#8217;t see it happening.    Now I make all arrangements personally and its not as hard to do as some would have you believe.  Now I KNOW where the money went.  Lessons learned</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Y</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-23005</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-23005</guid>
		<description>@Sara,

I AGREE 100% with you to call (or go online) to confirm everything.  

Spending some time to double-check your trip itinerary is peace of mind to KNOW that everything is taken care of BEFORE your vacation starts.  

If there is a problem, you have a chance of resolving it before you get to your destination.

Just add it to your pre-vacation checklist of checking the weather at your destination, stopping newspaper delivery, arranging for a pet sitter, etc.

Call it Common Sense 101 :) !

Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sara,</p>
<p>I AGREE 100% with you to call (or go online) to confirm everything.  </p>
<p>Spending some time to double-check your trip itinerary is peace of mind to KNOW that everything is taken care of BEFORE your vacation starts.  </p>
<p>If there is a problem, you have a chance of resolving it before you get to your destination.</p>
<p>Just add it to your pre-vacation checklist of checking the weather at your destination, stopping newspaper delivery, arranging for a pet sitter, etc.</p>
<p>Call it Common Sense 101 :) !</p>
<p>Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Wechsler</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-23004</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Wechsler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-23004</guid>
		<description>With all due respect to Keith, he is misinformed about the relationship between clients, agents and third party suppliers. Unless it can be shown that the agency kept the money rather than turning it over to Happy Vacations it is not liable. Clearly the resort is not either. There are many reasons why someone would choose to book through an agent rather than directly with the resort or the tour operator and this is not the place to go into that. If a mistake was made, it was for the agent to allow the client to purchase insurance from the tour operator rather than separately from a different company. This would have given protection against default by Happy Vacations. I have posted about this elsewhere in this forum and will say again that I almost never allow my clients to purchase insurance from suppliers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect to Keith, he is misinformed about the relationship between clients, agents and third party suppliers. Unless it can be shown that the agency kept the money rather than turning it over to Happy Vacations it is not liable. Clearly the resort is not either. There are many reasons why someone would choose to book through an agent rather than directly with the resort or the tour operator and this is not the place to go into that. If a mistake was made, it was for the agent to allow the client to purchase insurance from the tour operator rather than separately from a different company. This would have given protection against default by Happy Vacations. I have posted about this elsewhere in this forum and will say again that I almost never allow my clients to purchase insurance from suppliers.</p>
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		<title>By: MORT HERMAN</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-22998</link>
		<dc:creator>MORT HERMAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-22998</guid>
		<description>It happened several years ago when I booked avacation in Mexico through a travel agent (Platinum American Express).  I received a written confirmation from AMEX who received one from the hotel.  Since I have been a journalist for many years, I am suspicious by nature - (my motto is never trust an airline, travel agency, insurance company, etc.) so a few days before my trip I called the hotel directly  to re-confirm.  SURPRISE!  They never heard of me or my reservation.  I called Platinum AMEX Travel and the agent there was terrific.  He called the hotel and although he and I both had written confirmation, the hotel denied it.  He rebooked me at once to another (and more costly) hotel, told me not to worry, and when I was billed, AMEX would credit any differences,  He also advised me that he was noting the records on his computer of these facts.

When I was billed, I called Platinum Amex Travel to inform them.  They told me that that agent no longer worked there and they would not honor what he promised.  I went &quot;up the ladder&quot; and finally, a manager told me that it was true that it was entered in their computer, they would not honor the ex-agent&#039;s promise.

I then told them that I would not pay my current bill (it was over $10,000) and wait for them to sue me.  [THEY NEVER DO THIS, BY THE WAY.  THEY TURN IT OVER TO COLLECTION AND THREATEN YOUR CREDIT RATING - This never intimidates because my rating is extremely high].  I also know that when you &quot;settle&quot; with a collection agency, and you often can do this for 50 cents on the dollar, the agency gets a commission on what they settle for which could be as high as 50%.

Final.  The manager decided that discretion was the better part of valor and agreed to credit me with what their agent promised.  I paid my bill within my normal time frame - about 48 hrs.

An afterword.  At credit card banks, people like me (those who always pay in full, on time, and never incur any interest, late charges, or penalties, are known in industry jargon as &quot;A DEADHEAD&quot;.       
             
MORT HERMAN, DEADHEAD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It happened several years ago when I booked avacation in Mexico through a travel agent (Platinum American Express).  I received a written confirmation from AMEX who received one from the hotel.  Since I have been a journalist for many years, I am suspicious by nature &#8211; (my motto is never trust an airline, travel agency, insurance company, etc.) so a few days before my trip I called the hotel directly  to re-confirm.  SURPRISE!  They never heard of me or my reservation.  I called Platinum AMEX Travel and the agent there was terrific.  He called the hotel and although he and I both had written confirmation, the hotel denied it.  He rebooked me at once to another (and more costly) hotel, told me not to worry, and when I was billed, AMEX would credit any differences,  He also advised me that he was noting the records on his computer of these facts.</p>
<p>When I was billed, I called Platinum Amex Travel to inform them.  They told me that that agent no longer worked there and they would not honor what he promised.  I went &#8220;up the ladder&#8221; and finally, a manager told me that it was true that it was entered in their computer, they would not honor the ex-agent&#8217;s promise.</p>
<p>I then told them that I would not pay my current bill (it was over $10,000) and wait for them to sue me.  [THEY NEVER DO THIS, BY THE WAY.  THEY TURN IT OVER TO COLLECTION AND THREATEN YOUR CREDIT RATING - This never intimidates because my rating is extremely high].  I also know that when you &#8220;settle&#8221; with a collection agency, and you often can do this for 50 cents on the dollar, the agency gets a commission on what they settle for which could be as high as 50%.</p>
<p>Final.  The manager decided that discretion was the better part of valor and agreed to credit me with what their agent promised.  I paid my bill within my normal time frame &#8211; about 48 hrs.</p>
<p>An afterword.  At credit card banks, people like me (those who always pay in full, on time, and never incur any interest, late charges, or penalties, are known in industry jargon as &#8220;A DEADHEAD&#8221;.       </p>
<p>MORT HERMAN, DEADHEAD</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-22982</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-22982</guid>
		<description>This seems pretty simple to me.  The money way paid to the travel agent and when the customer got to the resort they were told that the money was not paid for the reservation.  The customer should be going after the travel agent not the resort.  It shouldn&#039;t matter if the agent booked through a third party (happy vacations) or somewhere else.  Why else would someone use an agent.  If they could have booked through happy vacations or sandals directly without an agent then why wouldn&#039;t they have?  The check was given to the travel agent and nothing was recieved in return.  It should be the agent being held financially responsible for the refund.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This seems pretty simple to me.  The money way paid to the travel agent and when the customer got to the resort they were told that the money was not paid for the reservation.  The customer should be going after the travel agent not the resort.  It shouldn&#8217;t matter if the agent booked through a third party (happy vacations) or somewhere else.  Why else would someone use an agent.  If they could have booked through happy vacations or sandals directly without an agent then why wouldn&#8217;t they have?  The check was given to the travel agent and nothing was recieved in return.  It should be the agent being held financially responsible for the refund.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-22979</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-22979</guid>
		<description>I too am confused how this fits in with common advice here to use a travel agent.  In this case there were 3 separate companies involved in handling the money (or should have been).  Wouldn&#039;t I be better off paying Sandals directly?  In any case, I agree that it&#039;s best to confirm with the final provider that your reservation and money have been received.

Personally, I think there&#039;s criminal fraud going on in some of these cases.  I don&#039;t care if &quot;Happy Vacations&quot; goes out of business suddenly or not -- there&#039;s no excuse for the money not to have been sent immediately to Sandals.  It&#039;s not like ordering, say, custom cabinets, where the money is paying for workers to build them, etc.  There&#039;s no justifiable reason for a travel company to &quot;store&quot; your money instead of forwarding it immediately; travel agencies aren&#039;t supposed to be a Ponzi scheme.  If the owners have really opened another business, I&#039;d consider hunting them down at work and home and threatening to press both criminal and civil charges unless they personally reimburse the money they stole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too am confused how this fits in with common advice here to use a travel agent.  In this case there were 3 separate companies involved in handling the money (or should have been).  Wouldn&#8217;t I be better off paying Sandals directly?  In any case, I agree that it&#8217;s best to confirm with the final provider that your reservation and money have been received.</p>
<p>Personally, I think there&#8217;s criminal fraud going on in some of these cases.  I don&#8217;t care if &#8220;Happy Vacations&#8221; goes out of business suddenly or not &#8212; there&#8217;s no excuse for the money not to have been sent immediately to Sandals.  It&#8217;s not like ordering, say, custom cabinets, where the money is paying for workers to build them, etc.  There&#8217;s no justifiable reason for a travel company to &#8220;store&#8221; your money instead of forwarding it immediately; travel agencies aren&#8217;t supposed to be a Ponzi scheme.  If the owners have really opened another business, I&#8217;d consider hunting them down at work and home and threatening to press both criminal and civil charges unless they personally reimburse the money they stole.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin (Roaming Tales)</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-22973</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin (Roaming Tales)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 04:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-22973</guid>
		<description>@Sara That was Travel 101 30 years ago. Airlines these days neither require, nor desire, passengers to call to confirm their reservations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sara That was Travel 101 30 years ago. Airlines these days neither require, nor desire, passengers to call to confirm their reservations.</p>
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		<title>By: guy</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-22970</link>
		<dc:creator>guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-22970</guid>
		<description>I think this sucked, especially since I just got done reading from Chris that we should use a travel agent when we are planning a big trip.  Most people don&#039;t have a trusted travel agent.  I personally don&#039;t travel enough to have one, and the one that I used to have would make plane reservations for me and charge me $20 for the service.  So I now just book online. 

At least if they had used expedia or travelocity those companies don&#039;t go out of business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this sucked, especially since I just got done reading from Chris that we should use a travel agent when we are planning a big trip.  Most people don&#8217;t have a trusted travel agent.  I personally don&#8217;t travel enough to have one, and the one that I used to have would make plane reservations for me and charge me $20 for the service.  So I now just book online. </p>
<p>At least if they had used expedia or travelocity those companies don&#8217;t go out of business.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Antista</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-22964</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Antista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-22964</guid>
		<description>Another thought on this.  It says the deposit was made on a credit card. I would like to know what it said on their credit card bill.  It had to say something!  Who ran the credit card?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thought on this.  It says the deposit was made on a credit card. I would like to know what it said on their credit card bill.  It had to say something!  Who ran the credit card?</p>
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		<title>By: Carver Farrow</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-very-unhappy-vacation-couple-charged-twice-for-sandals-getaway/comment-page-1/#comment-22963</link>
		<dc:creator>Carver Farrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=7991#comment-22963</guid>
		<description>@Sara

I have to respectfully disagree.  You and Chris believe that the traveler bears responsibility for confirming travel.  However, math is against both of you. Consider that approximately 2 million people fly worldwide each day.  That would be an awful lot of  phone calls to the travel providers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sara</p>
<p>I have to respectfully disagree.  You and Chris believe that the traveler bears responsibility for confirming travel.  However, math is against both of you. Consider that approximately 2 million people fly worldwide each day.  That would be an awful lot of  phone calls to the travel providers.</p>
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