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	<title>Comments on: A losing fight? Airlines earned $10 billion from fees last year, up 345 percent</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/</link>
	<description>Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott&#039;s site.</description>
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		<title>By: Stuart Cheshire</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-70344</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Cheshire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 04:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-70344</guid>
		<description>While I agree with the point of this article, the example is ironic: &quot;When I buy a baguette at the store, it costs 99 cents, with a 7 percent sales tax.&quot;

When an English person visiting the US for the first time buys a baguette priced at 99 cents, they are usually confused why a dollar is not enough to pay for that.

Why isn&#039;t a dollar enough to pay for something that costs 99 cents?

I think the US system of sales tax add-on pricing is at least partially responsible for the ease with which airlines and car rental companies are also able to tack-on ancillary fees. The average US consumer grows up knowing that everything always costs more than it says. In that world, why wouldn&#039;t any company see how much further they can stretch it? If a seven percent add-on is accepted without the blink of an eye, how about eight percent? Ten percent? Fifteen? Twenty?

The problem of honest transparent pricing in the US runs far deeper then just air, hotel, and car rental companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with the point of this article, the example is ironic: &#8220;When I buy a baguette at the store, it costs 99 cents, with a 7 percent sales tax.&#8221;</p>
<p>When an English person visiting the US for the first time buys a baguette priced at 99 cents, they are usually confused why a dollar is not enough to pay for that.</p>
<p>Why isn&#8217;t a dollar enough to pay for something that costs 99 cents?</p>
<p>I think the US system of sales tax add-on pricing is at least partially responsible for the ease with which airlines and car rental companies are also able to tack-on ancillary fees. The average US consumer grows up knowing that everything always costs more than it says. In that world, why wouldn&#8217;t any company see how much further they can stretch it? If a seven percent add-on is accepted without the blink of an eye, how about eight percent? Ten percent? Fifteen? Twenty?</p>
<p>The problem of honest transparent pricing in the US runs far deeper then just air, hotel, and car rental companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramakrishnan Bashyam</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-41727</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramakrishnan Bashyam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 02:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-41727</guid>
		<description>Southwest is still allowing 2 bags for free and still they are making money, whereas the  other airlines like United, Delta etc which charge fees for bags are losing money. What is wrong with this picture - It is the top management team in these big airlines. Obviously they suck and get paid big bucks for being bad...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Southwest is still allowing 2 bags for free and still they are making money, whereas the  other airlines like United, Delta etc which charge fees for bags are losing money. What is wrong with this picture &#8211; It is the top management team in these big airlines. Obviously they suck and get paid big bucks for being bad&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Carver</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-29382</link>
		<dc:creator>Carver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-29382</guid>
		<description>@Scott

What you are describing is known as a negative check-off, i.e. getting a discount for declining certain goods and services.  I suspect that the airlines would LOVE to go to that business model.  For a variety of economic reasons, a negative check-off makes a lot more money and is generally received better than add-ons which are perceived as nickel and diming.  Of course, a negatice check-off is indistinguishable from add-ons from a financial position.  The same goods and services cost the same under either system.

The reason why airlines don&#039;t do this is because their prices will show as initially higher in the various search engines.

For example, my $39 trip from SFO to LAX will initialy read as $69 with a $30 discount for not paying for luggage.  But someone will see the $69 and believe its higher than someone else who is charging $39 with a baggage fee.

Thus the negative check-off will have difficulties being implemented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott</p>
<p>What you are describing is known as a negative check-off, i.e. getting a discount for declining certain goods and services.  I suspect that the airlines would LOVE to go to that business model.  For a variety of economic reasons, a negative check-off makes a lot more money and is generally received better than add-ons which are perceived as nickel and diming.  Of course, a negatice check-off is indistinguishable from add-ons from a financial position.  The same goods and services cost the same under either system.</p>
<p>The reason why airlines don&#8217;t do this is because their prices will show as initially higher in the various search engines.</p>
<p>For example, my $39 trip from SFO to LAX will initialy read as $69 with a $30 discount for not paying for luggage.  But someone will see the $69 and believe its higher than someone else who is charging $39 with a baggage fee.</p>
<p>Thus the negative check-off will have difficulties being implemented.</p>
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		<title>By: lucrezia borgia</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-29378</link>
		<dc:creator>lucrezia borgia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-29378</guid>
		<description>Chris - why don&#039;t you take this business model and expand it further?  

How would people feel if the milk was free but the container fee, &#039;stocking fee&#039;, transportation fee, staffing fee (in order to collect the fees), store access fee, security fee (because SOMEONE has to keep order for free milk), and then, when they&#039;re not making enough, a &#039;cow comfort fee&#039; etc etc etc

The risk of this business model goes beyond the airlines and travel industry.  They are the canary.  If the canary lives, then practices spread. 

Right now they are just wreaking havoc with my ability to get around quickly. Of course, after the Christmas incident, travel&#039;s going to get a lot more painful anyway....maybe I WILL just drive for a while.  Come on, high speed trains!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris &#8211; why don&#8217;t you take this business model and expand it further?  </p>
<p>How would people feel if the milk was free but the container fee, &#8216;stocking fee&#8217;, transportation fee, staffing fee (in order to collect the fees), store access fee, security fee (because SOMEONE has to keep order for free milk), and then, when they&#8217;re not making enough, a &#8216;cow comfort fee&#8217; etc etc etc</p>
<p>The risk of this business model goes beyond the airlines and travel industry.  They are the canary.  If the canary lives, then practices spread. </p>
<p>Right now they are just wreaking havoc with my ability to get around quickly. Of course, after the Christmas incident, travel&#8217;s going to get a lot more painful anyway&#8230;.maybe I WILL just drive for a while.  Come on, high speed trains!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-24034</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-24034</guid>
		<description>@Chris:

&quot;The truth is a little more complicated. Airlines took the fares and, without lowering them, unbundled.&quot;

While I agree with truth in fare publication and much of what you write, this is misleading at best.  (While agreeing that airlines are also misleading.)

The truth *is* more complicated.  Fares are TOO LOW.  Airlines cannot raise their fares to an appropriate level because of internet pricing and the fact that they are trying to put each other out of business.  Rather than charge the customer an appropriate level fare to match the cost, they are charging additional fees for things that the customers use to make up the difference.

Sure, it would be better if they did what Jonathan is suggesting and put in a total cost and allow you to take off the price for what you don&#039;t use.  That, however accomplishes the same end but you won&#039;t get all airlines to follow that model at once.  Capitalism and all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris:</p>
<p>&#8220;The truth is a little more complicated. Airlines took the fares and, without lowering them, unbundled.&#8221;</p>
<p>While I agree with truth in fare publication and much of what you write, this is misleading at best.  (While agreeing that airlines are also misleading.)</p>
<p>The truth *is* more complicated.  Fares are TOO LOW.  Airlines cannot raise their fares to an appropriate level because of internet pricing and the fact that they are trying to put each other out of business.  Rather than charge the customer an appropriate level fare to match the cost, they are charging additional fees for things that the customers use to make up the difference.</p>
<p>Sure, it would be better if they did what Jonathan is suggesting and put in a total cost and allow you to take off the price for what you don&#8217;t use.  That, however accomplishes the same end but you won&#8217;t get all airlines to follow that model at once.  Capitalism and all.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-24026</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-24026</guid>
		<description>Joe - So why are you still going to fly Southwest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe &#8211; So why are you still going to fly Southwest?</p>
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		<title>By: Travel News and Stories for 09/10/2009Travel News and Stories for 09/10/2009 : Kathika Travel Website</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-24023</link>
		<dc:creator>Travel News and Stories for 09/10/2009Travel News and Stories for 09/10/2009 : Kathika Travel Website</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-24023</guid>
		<description>[...] A losing fight? Airlines earned $10 billion from fees last year, up 345 percent My friend Addison Schonland said it best: Anyone who thinks baggage fees are going away is living on another planet. And as if to underscore that point, IdeaWorks has released a survey that shows ancillary revenue is up 345 percent from 2006, to an eye-popping $10 billion last year. http://www.elliott.org [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A losing fight? Airlines earned $10 billion from fees last year, up 345 percent My friend Addison Schonland said it best: Anyone who thinks baggage fees are going away is living on another planet. And as if to underscore that point, IdeaWorks has released a survey that shows ancillary revenue is up 345 percent from 2006, to an eye-popping $10 billion last year. <a href="http://www.elliott.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.elliott.org</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-24009</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-24009</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a thought for all you airline corporate hacks reading this.  Change the way you sell your tickets.  Say an flight from JFK to LAX costs $400 on the current set-up.  When you book it, make the price $450 and have it include food and luggage (two pieces like in the good old days).  Then as I go through the booking process, I can get my price reduced by declining the snack and saying I&#039;m only checking one piece of luggage.  Yes, I know that I&#039;m still getting gouged, but from a PR standpoint, it&#039;s much more likely that you&#039;re not going to pi$$ off as many passengers because human nature is more likely to have a positive reaction to saving money than having to pay extra fees.  Also, if the airlines establish the &quot;new&quot; price and then have their website as the only place people can get the reductions, they&#039;re more likely to book their flight through the airline website than a third party, helping the airline&#039;s bottom line.  

Now if you use this idea, I&#039;ll accept free snackage and luggage on all my future flights in compensation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a thought for all you airline corporate hacks reading this.  Change the way you sell your tickets.  Say an flight from JFK to LAX costs $400 on the current set-up.  When you book it, make the price $450 and have it include food and luggage (two pieces like in the good old days).  Then as I go through the booking process, I can get my price reduced by declining the snack and saying I&#8217;m only checking one piece of luggage.  Yes, I know that I&#8217;m still getting gouged, but from a PR standpoint, it&#8217;s much more likely that you&#8217;re not going to pi$$ off as many passengers because human nature is more likely to have a positive reaction to saving money than having to pay extra fees.  Also, if the airlines establish the &#8220;new&#8221; price and then have their website as the only place people can get the reductions, they&#8217;re more likely to book their flight through the airline website than a third party, helping the airline&#8217;s bottom line.  </p>
<p>Now if you use this idea, I&#8217;ll accept free snackage and luggage on all my future flights in compensation!</p>
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		<title>By: follow happy</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-23996</link>
		<dc:creator>follow happy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-23996</guid>
		<description>My luggage tag says, &quot;I use to fly for FREE, before the they REMOVED the &quot;R&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My luggage tag says, &#8220;I use to fly for FREE, before the they REMOVED the &#8220;R&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: frostysnowman</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-23991</link>
		<dc:creator>frostysnowman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-23991</guid>
		<description>OK - this may sound extreme, but saying consumers have &quot;embraced&quot; a la carte fees is like saying Jewish people &quot;embraced&quot; life in the ghettos (and worse) during World War II.  I was trying to figure out a less extreme comparision but couldn&#039;t, so please don&#039;t give me a hard time for that.  Just because something is forced on people doesn&#039;t mean they embrace it.  It means they have no choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK &#8211; this may sound extreme, but saying consumers have &#8220;embraced&#8221; a la carte fees is like saying Jewish people &#8220;embraced&#8221; life in the ghettos (and worse) during World War II.  I was trying to figure out a less extreme comparision but couldn&#8217;t, so please don&#8217;t give me a hard time for that.  Just because something is forced on people doesn&#8217;t mean they embrace it.  It means they have no choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasper</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-23990</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-23990</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not only the travel industry that does this. Ever checked your cell phone bill? Your cable bill? Your EZ Pass bill? Any medical bill?

This is not about just the travel industry and USDOT needing to get involved. What needs to happen is that the US government, reinforces the normality of putting the actual price on a product. The price, you know, the amount of money you need to hand over to get the product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not only the travel industry that does this. Ever checked your cell phone bill? Your cable bill? Your EZ Pass bill? Any medical bill?</p>
<p>This is not about just the travel industry and USDOT needing to get involved. What needs to happen is that the US government, reinforces the normality of putting the actual price on a product. The price, you know, the amount of money you need to hand over to get the product.</p>
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		<title>By: LeeAnne</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-23987</link>
		<dc:creator>LeeAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-23987</guid>
		<description>The most frustrating part of shopping for air travel these days is that it take so long just to get an actual price.  You can&#039;t go by the prices you see on the initial display...and you can&#039;t even assume that the add-ons to these prices will follow any sort of standard percentage.  I have seen initial fare displays where one fare is several hundred dollars cheaper than another...but when I click down into them to get a REAL price, the &quot;cheaper&quot; one ends up way higher than the &quot;more expensive&quot; one!  

And the clicking down is such a cumbersome process - we&#039;re not talking just a few clicks.  We&#039;re talking entering in all kinds of information and passing through several screens, almost to the point of buying the damn ticket, before you get a final price.  How can anyone comparison-shop that way?  It takes HOURS just to get real prices...and you have to carefully do your homework, bookmarking links and jotting down figures, before you actually have real numbers to compare.

The DOT says they can&#039;t regulate fares.  But we KNOW they can regulate unfair and deceptive selling practices - they just slapped a few (trivial) fines on some airlines for just these types of consumer rule violations.  I say trivial because I&#039;m quite sure the airlines realize that in the end, they made many times more in increased sales to snookered customers than they had to pay in fines.  These penalties are just a minor cost of doing business, and I have no doubt they will have zero impact on these deceptive selling practices.

And it&#039;s not just the airlines.  Online travel agencies are doing the same thing.  While some of them post &quot;base&quot; fares along with a &quot;total&quot; fare on the first display, too many others do the same things as the airlines themselves - they post just the &quot;base&quot; fare, and then make you click-enter info-click-enter info-click before you actually get to the &quot;total&quot;.  Nobody with a brain could possibly consider this NOT deceptive.

Where is the DOT?  Why are they allowing this to happen?  Do they really think these miniscule fines will have any impact at all?  And why aren&#039;t they slapping fines on these online travel agencies that are practicing the same type of deception?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most frustrating part of shopping for air travel these days is that it take so long just to get an actual price.  You can&#8217;t go by the prices you see on the initial display&#8230;and you can&#8217;t even assume that the add-ons to these prices will follow any sort of standard percentage.  I have seen initial fare displays where one fare is several hundred dollars cheaper than another&#8230;but when I click down into them to get a REAL price, the &#8220;cheaper&#8221; one ends up way higher than the &#8220;more expensive&#8221; one!  </p>
<p>And the clicking down is such a cumbersome process &#8211; we&#8217;re not talking just a few clicks.  We&#8217;re talking entering in all kinds of information and passing through several screens, almost to the point of buying the damn ticket, before you get a final price.  How can anyone comparison-shop that way?  It takes HOURS just to get real prices&#8230;and you have to carefully do your homework, bookmarking links and jotting down figures, before you actually have real numbers to compare.</p>
<p>The DOT says they can&#8217;t regulate fares.  But we KNOW they can regulate unfair and deceptive selling practices &#8211; they just slapped a few (trivial) fines on some airlines for just these types of consumer rule violations.  I say trivial because I&#8217;m quite sure the airlines realize that in the end, they made many times more in increased sales to snookered customers than they had to pay in fines.  These penalties are just a minor cost of doing business, and I have no doubt they will have zero impact on these deceptive selling practices.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not just the airlines.  Online travel agencies are doing the same thing.  While some of them post &#8220;base&#8221; fares along with a &#8220;total&#8221; fare on the first display, too many others do the same things as the airlines themselves &#8211; they post just the &#8220;base&#8221; fare, and then make you click-enter info-click-enter info-click before you actually get to the &#8220;total&#8221;.  Nobody with a brain could possibly consider this NOT deceptive.</p>
<p>Where is the DOT?  Why are they allowing this to happen?  Do they really think these miniscule fines will have any impact at all?  And why aren&#8217;t they slapping fines on these online travel agencies that are practicing the same type of deception?</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Muth</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-23979</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Muth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-23979</guid>
		<description>Are we sure that Allegiant is charging a fee for credit card payments?

If so, that&#039;s probably a violation of their merchant agreement, and should be reported to the various credit card companies (Visa and Mastercard).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we sure that Allegiant is charging a fee for credit card payments?</p>
<p>If so, that&#8217;s probably a violation of their merchant agreement, and should be reported to the various credit card companies (Visa and Mastercard).</p>
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		<title>By: MeanMeosh</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-23975</link>
		<dc:creator>MeanMeosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-23975</guid>
		<description>With reference to your thought about ticket prices falling to zero - this already happens all the time in India.  You&#039;ll frequently see the airlines offering base fares for something ridiculous like 1 rupee (about 2 cents at today&#039;s exchange rate).  Then, they tack on 2,500 rupees of taxes and surcharges.  You&#039;re still not talking a bunch of money - a little over $50 - but guess what the airlines and travel sites so prominently display?  If you guessed the bogus 1 rupee &quot;base fare&quot;, you&#039;re right.  It&#039;s been getting better over the last 6 months or so, as you see a lot more &quot;total price&quot; ads, but it&#039;s still a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With reference to your thought about ticket prices falling to zero &#8211; this already happens all the time in India.  You&#8217;ll frequently see the airlines offering base fares for something ridiculous like 1 rupee (about 2 cents at today&#8217;s exchange rate).  Then, they tack on 2,500 rupees of taxes and surcharges.  You&#8217;re still not talking a bunch of money &#8211; a little over $50 &#8211; but guess what the airlines and travel sites so prominently display?  If you guessed the bogus 1 rupee &#8220;base fare&#8221;, you&#8217;re right.  It&#8217;s been getting better over the last 6 months or so, as you see a lot more &#8220;total price&#8221; ads, but it&#8217;s still a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/a-losing-fight-airlines-earned-10-billion-from-fees-last-year-up-345-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-23970</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/?p=8338#comment-23970</guid>
		<description>I finally did it: I said enough is enough.  My next trip would be about $100 cheaper on Delta/NW/United than on Southwest, even when you throw in their checked baggage fees.

I&#039;m flying Southwest anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finally did it: I said enough is enough.  My next trip would be about $100 cheaper on Delta/NW/United than on Southwest, even when you throw in their checked baggage fees.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m flying Southwest anyway.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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