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	<title>Comments on: $50 mystery charges on motorist&#8217;s debit card explained</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/</link>
	<description>Consumer advocate Christopher Elliott&#039;s site.</description>
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		<title>By: Mekhong Kurt, Bangkok, Thailand</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-40788</link>
		<dc:creator>Mekhong Kurt, Bangkok, Thailand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 15:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-40788</guid>
		<description>While I agree it&#039;s potentially a pain to have this sort of charge imposed, even temporarily, I can see considerable justification for it.

I&#039;m American but live abroad, so am not up-to-the-second on stuff in the US. Two years ago I went back for a long holiday, during which time my Sister and I rented a vehicle and took a road trip up to Kansas, taking turns buying gas.

At one fuel stop, it was my turn to pay. While I was paying with my US debit card, Sis went off to shop for something, and the clerk and I chatted. When it came out I live abroad, he asked if I was aware that a fee -- I think it was $25 -- had been deducted from my account but would be credited back within 24 hours.

I had been unaware of that, but was grateful for his mentioning it to me so I would know. Sure enough, the following day I checked, and the fee had been deducted then re-credited, credited even sooner than he had said it would.

Can the company use my money during the intervening hours? Yes, it can. Maybe I&#039;m too forgiving -- banks out here routinely sit on even electronic fund transfers days and even weeks, precisely so they *can* kite your money -- but I can see a company there (in the US) covering itself a few hours, and feel that&#039;s fair enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree it&#8217;s potentially a pain to have this sort of charge imposed, even temporarily, I can see considerable justification for it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m American but live abroad, so am not up-to-the-second on stuff in the US. Two years ago I went back for a long holiday, during which time my Sister and I rented a vehicle and took a road trip up to Kansas, taking turns buying gas.</p>
<p>At one fuel stop, it was my turn to pay. While I was paying with my US debit card, Sis went off to shop for something, and the clerk and I chatted. When it came out I live abroad, he asked if I was aware that a fee &#8212; I think it was $25 &#8212; had been deducted from my account but would be credited back within 24 hours.</p>
<p>I had been unaware of that, but was grateful for his mentioning it to me so I would know. Sure enough, the following day I checked, and the fee had been deducted then re-credited, credited even sooner than he had said it would.</p>
<p>Can the company use my money during the intervening hours? Yes, it can. Maybe I&#8217;m too forgiving &#8212; banks out here routinely sit on even electronic fund transfers days and even weeks, precisely so they *can* kite your money &#8212; but I can see a company there (in the US) covering itself a few hours, and feel that&#8217;s fair enough.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeCherone</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-39206</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeCherone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 14:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-39206</guid>
		<description>One word for you: SCARY! It&#039;s a brave new electronic world we&#039;re living in, and it&#039;s all about the &quot;details&quot; now. Unfortunately, I&#039;ve had similar issues with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.payvision.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;debit charges&lt;/a&gt; and have stopped using my debit card for gasoline purchases. I&#039;ve also enlisted the help of a professional debit charge security company, http://www.payvision.com and I haven&#039;t had any problems since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One word for you: SCARY! It&#8217;s a brave new electronic world we&#8217;re living in, and it&#8217;s all about the &#8220;details&#8221; now. Unfortunately, I&#8217;ve had similar issues with <a href="http://www.payvision.com" rel="nofollow">debit charges</a> and have stopped using my debit card for gasoline purchases. I&#8217;ve also enlisted the help of a professional debit charge security company, <a href="http://www.payvision.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.payvision.com</a> and I haven&#8217;t had any problems since.</p>
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		<title>By: osteen</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-14709</link>
		<dc:creator>osteen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-14709</guid>
		<description>HOW IS IT THAT IF I HAVE, SAY, 20 bucks on my card, the gas pump will shut off automatically at $20!  This would indicate that the debit card company AND/OR the station was fully aware of how much I had on my card!  The idea that the cc company has to hold a certain amount for several days just doesn&#039;t add up.  It actually makes more sense to me that they would use that missing money&#039;s &quot;interest-earning potential&quot; for as long as they can.  After all, how do you think a bank makes money off a SAVINGS account? To think they don&#039;t have the &quot;technology&quot; to determine how much gas I actually pumped immediately is just too much of a stretch.  we&#039;re sending folks to the moon for heavensakes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HOW IS IT THAT IF I HAVE, SAY, 20 bucks on my card, the gas pump will shut off automatically at $20!  This would indicate that the debit card company AND/OR the station was fully aware of how much I had on my card!  The idea that the cc company has to hold a certain amount for several days just doesn&#8217;t add up.  It actually makes more sense to me that they would use that missing money&#8217;s &#8220;interest-earning potential&#8221; for as long as they can.  After all, how do you think a bank makes money off a SAVINGS account? To think they don&#8217;t have the &#8220;technology&#8221; to determine how much gas I actually pumped immediately is just too much of a stretch.  we&#8217;re sending folks to the moon for heavensakes</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-13613</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-13613</guid>
		<description>safeway does it too! only its $75 dollars, because of them i got $45 in overdraft charges because they witheld 150 dollars from my account for more than 2 weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>safeway does it too! only its $75 dollars, because of them i got $45 in overdraft charges because they witheld 150 dollars from my account for more than 2 weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: PM</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-7058</link>
		<dc:creator>PM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-7058</guid>
		<description>I ended up paying 5000+ $$ amount for 3200$$ air ticket from expedia website through my debit card as my credit card does not have this limit. which overshot my checking account and had to pay 160$$ as penalty for overdrawn and insufficient funds.
Hopefully the &quot;extra&quot; amount gets credited back to my account in next couple of days, exact timeframe is unknown.
This is atrocious and unrequired headache.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ended up paying 5000+ $$ amount for 3200$$ air ticket from expedia website through my debit card as my credit card does not have this limit. which overshot my checking account and had to pay 160$$ as penalty for overdrawn and insufficient funds.<br />
Hopefully the &#8220;extra&#8221; amount gets credited back to my account in next couple of days, exact timeframe is unknown.<br />
This is atrocious and unrequired headache.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin M</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-7026</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-7026</guid>
		<description>@Jasper: The problem with debit cards and &quot;holds&quot; is that for a checking account (as opposed to a credit line), there&#039;s no such thing as a hold, at least not at many banks. When an item is presented for payment against a checking account, it&#039;s either paid or not. So what would be a &quot;hold&quot; on a credit line becomes a charge against a checking account.

In theory, yes, reversing a charge should be immediate, just like a purchase. But it&#039;s not (for the return &amp; fraud reasons I noted) and unless/until the banks are forced to change those rules, a return&#039;s going to take longer to process than releasing a hold.

In other words, I&#039;m not defending the process, just explaining why a debit card gets treated differently in these situations.

@ThePlaz: It&#039;s true that gas can&#039;t be returned, but lots of things sold at a gas station can be. My guess is that some of their processing rules cover all purchases made at the site.

@J Bloe: No, many banks (at least here) offer free debit cards to their checking account customers. I pay no fee for mine, so it costs no more to use than a credit card. That many not be the case everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jasper: The problem with debit cards and &#8220;holds&#8221; is that for a checking account (as opposed to a credit line), there&#8217;s no such thing as a hold, at least not at many banks. When an item is presented for payment against a checking account, it&#8217;s either paid or not. So what would be a &#8220;hold&#8221; on a credit line becomes a charge against a checking account.</p>
<p>In theory, yes, reversing a charge should be immediate, just like a purchase. But it&#8217;s not (for the return &amp; fraud reasons I noted) and unless/until the banks are forced to change those rules, a return&#8217;s going to take longer to process than releasing a hold.</p>
<p>In other words, I&#8217;m not defending the process, just explaining why a debit card gets treated differently in these situations.</p>
<p>@ThePlaz: It&#8217;s true that gas can&#8217;t be returned, but lots of things sold at a gas station can be. My guess is that some of their processing rules cover all purchases made at the site.</p>
<p>@J Bloe: No, many banks (at least here) offer free debit cards to their checking account customers. I pay no fee for mine, so it costs no more to use than a credit card. That many not be the case everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Damiani</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-7022</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Damiani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-7022</guid>
		<description>Most debit cards work as credit cards too, and that&#039;s the best of both worlds. Run the transaction as credit instead of debit and you don&#039;t have to deal with actual funds being held like you do with a debit card.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most debit cards work as credit cards too, and that&#8217;s the best of both worlds. Run the transaction as credit instead of debit and you don&#8217;t have to deal with actual funds being held like you do with a debit card.</p>
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		<title>By: ajaynejr</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-7003</link>
		<dc:creator>ajaynejr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-7003</guid>
		<description>Anybody who uses a debit card should try to get and use a credit card instead. It just takes discipline to pay the bill in full and on time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody who uses a debit card should try to get and use a credit card instead. It just takes discipline to pay the bill in full and on time.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-6972</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 22:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-6972</guid>
		<description>Restaurants do the same thing to account for a customer&#039;s presumed tip.  We ate at an establishment and used the debit card for the bill and left the tip in cash, but the credit card company automatically tacked on an additional 20% to our actual bill.  It disappeared in a week or so, but be warned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Restaurants do the same thing to account for a customer&#8217;s presumed tip.  We ate at an establishment and used the debit card for the bill and left the tip in cash, but the credit card company automatically tacked on an additional 20% to our actual bill.  It disappeared in a week or so, but be warned.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasper</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-6969</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-6969</guid>
		<description>http://redtape.msnbc.com/2007/11/debit-card-purc.html#posts

This is an overview of how your debit card differs from your cc. Very useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://redtape.msnbc.com/2007/11/debit-card-purc.html#posts" rel="nofollow">http://redtape.msnbc.com/2007/11/debit-card-purc.html#posts</a></p>
<p>This is an overview of how your debit card differs from your cc. Very useful.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hook</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-6963</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-6963</guid>
		<description>Having had the same problems with using credit cards at gas stations here in Canada, I&#039;ve found the simplest solution is to pull up at the pump, go inside and get the cashier to pre-authorise the pump with however much gas I want (paying inside by credit card) then going back out and putting in the car the same amount of gas I&#039;ve already paid for. The pump won&#039;t let you pump any more than this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having had the same problems with using credit cards at gas stations here in Canada, I&#8217;ve found the simplest solution is to pull up at the pump, go inside and get the cashier to pre-authorise the pump with however much gas I want (paying inside by credit card) then going back out and putting in the car the same amount of gas I&#8217;ve already paid for. The pump won&#8217;t let you pump any more than this.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Bloe</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-6954</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Bloe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-6954</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t you also get charged a fee when using a debit card? About 20-50 cents? I can&#039;t understand why people use debit cards and give a cut to their bank at every purchase. Use a credit card and of course pay the full balance every month. Discover gives you 1% cash back on every purchase. Many cards have promotion periods where they give you 5% cash back on gasoline purchases. Discover currently has 5% cash back on groceries through December. Why give money away when you can get a discount.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t you also get charged a fee when using a debit card? About 20-50 cents? I can&#8217;t understand why people use debit cards and give a cut to their bank at every purchase. Use a credit card and of course pay the full balance every month. Discover gives you 1% cash back on every purchase. Many cards have promotion periods where they give you 5% cash back on gasoline purchases. Discover currently has 5% cash back on groceries through December. Why give money away when you can get a discount.</p>
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		<title>By: ThePlaz</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-6951</link>
		<dc:creator>ThePlaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-6951</guid>
		<description>@ Kevin - I understand - but how can you &quot;return&quot; gas.  Couldn&#039;t they make an exception?

Even if you have a credit card it messes up your book keeping.  And if you have a debt-card that money is frozen.

They should be a lot faster to release the charges.  (There was a hearing in Congress yesterday - but it was about finance charges for &quot;sub-prime&quot; borrowers.  This should have been brought up).
-Michael
http://theplaz.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kevin &#8211; I understand &#8211; but how can you &#8220;return&#8221; gas.  Couldn&#8217;t they make an exception?</p>
<p>Even if you have a credit card it messes up your book keeping.  And if you have a debt-card that money is frozen.</p>
<p>They should be a lot faster to release the charges.  (There was a hearing in Congress yesterday &#8211; but it was about finance charges for &#8220;sub-prime&#8221; borrowers.  This should have been brought up).<br />
-Michael<br />
<a href="http://theplaz.com" rel="nofollow">http://theplaz.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tab</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-6948</link>
		<dc:creator>Tab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-6948</guid>
		<description>The prepaid debit cards are a royal pain in the butt to use.

My wife got one as a rebate on her phone and after a screw up in the way it was charged at one restaurant, it took weeks of calling to get the charge reversed. Another restaurant charged it for the amount on the card and it was rejected because we found out that when cards are used at restaurants, they are automatically authorized for a higher amount to account for the tip which will be put on later.

The prepaid debit cards are often rejected by regular merchants processing terminals if you aren&#039;t spending the exact amount on the card. 

We were finally able to use the card when I called Cingular to complain and they said I could put the value toward her monthly bill.

And the final &quot;gotcha&quot; in the fine print is that most of the cards expire and if you haven&#039;t used all the value, you lose it. I couldn&#039;t get an answer whether the money would go back to Cingular or the issuing bank if we hadn&#039;t been able to use her card.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The prepaid debit cards are a royal pain in the butt to use.</p>
<p>My wife got one as a rebate on her phone and after a screw up in the way it was charged at one restaurant, it took weeks of calling to get the charge reversed. Another restaurant charged it for the amount on the card and it was rejected because we found out that when cards are used at restaurants, they are automatically authorized for a higher amount to account for the tip which will be put on later.</p>
<p>The prepaid debit cards are often rejected by regular merchants processing terminals if you aren&#8217;t spending the exact amount on the card. </p>
<p>We were finally able to use the card when I called Cingular to complain and they said I could put the value toward her monthly bill.</p>
<p>And the final &#8220;gotcha&#8221; in the fine print is that most of the cards expire and if you haven&#8217;t used all the value, you lose it. I couldn&#8217;t get an answer whether the money would go back to Cingular or the issuing bank if we hadn&#8217;t been able to use her card.</p>
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		<title>By: sammy</title>
		<link>http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-6943</link>
		<dc:creator>sammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elliott.org/blog/50-mystery-charges-on-motorists-debit-card-explained/#comment-6943</guid>
		<description>Each bank does it differently, but for my bank (US Bank), I only get charged as overdrafting, not having money avialable, etc, based on my Actual Balance, not my Available Balance (which includes pending transactions, including Holds).
Example:
I have $45 in my checking account (hey, I&#039;m a college student, I&#039;m poor)
I do pay at the pump, and get $30 in gas, and the Gas Station does a $50 hold.
My account website looks like this
Account Balance-$50
Available Balance$-5
a couple days later, the hold is replaced by the charge, and it would say
Account/Available Balance $20.
So even though my available balance is in the red, I haven&#039;t overdrafted yet.
Hope this helps</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Each bank does it differently, but for my bank (US Bank), I only get charged as overdrafting, not having money avialable, etc, based on my Actual Balance, not my Available Balance (which includes pending transactions, including Holds).<br />
Example:<br />
I have $45 in my checking account (hey, I&#8217;m a college student, I&#8217;m poor)<br />
I do pay at the pump, and get $30 in gas, and the Gas Station does a $50 hold.<br />
My account website looks like this<br />
Account Balance-$50<br />
Available Balance$-5<br />
a couple days later, the hold is replaced by the charge, and it would say<br />
Account/Available Balance $20.<br />
So even though my available balance is in the red, I haven&#8217;t overdrafted yet.<br />
Hope this helps</p>
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